Active Shooters in San Bernardino, CA

[JohnnyMarko 1]

http://www.9news.com/story/news/nation/2015/12/02/officials-shooting-reported-calif-golf-course/76675776/

Police just confirmed 14 dead, suspect(s) still on the run. Still an active, chaotic scene. Not much info yet.

[headoverheels 333]

Syed R. Farook

Employment Details

Agency: San Bernardino County

Position: Environmental Health Specialist

[piisfish 140]

you guys definitely need more guns.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[rushmc 23]

piisfish

you guys definitely need more guns.

Yes

It might have saved some lives

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[RonD1120 62]

Farook and Malik planned this. They left their daughter with her grandmother Wednesday morning. They had gear, weapons and IEDs.

Can we say "sleeper cell"?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rushmc 23]

JohnnyMarko

http://www.9news.com/story/news/nation/2015/12/02/officials-shooting-reported-calif-golf-course/76675776/

Police just confirmed 14 dead, suspect(s) still on the run. Still an active, chaotic scene. Not much info yet.

Before the name came out CNN was reporting that, because the attack was on a government group, it appeared to be a right wing militia group.

Fucking idiots at CNN did it to themselves again

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Boomerdog 0]

Quote

you guys definitely need more guns.

Absolutely!
Like being too rich or too thin, ya just can't be enough or have enough I say!

'been looking at a new .45 for easier concealed carry AND will be going for my Utah concealed permit so I'll have more reciprocity in more states.

I gotta hand it to ya; hit the nail right on the head, us guys DEFINITELY need more guns!

[rushmc 23]

Boomerdog

Quote

you guys definitely need more guns.

Absolutely!
Like being too rich or too thin, ya just can't be enough or have enough I say!

'been looking at a new .45 for easier concealed carry AND will be going for my Utah concealed permit so I'll have more reciprocity in more states.

I gotta hand it to ya; hit the nail right on the head, us guys DEFINITELY need more guns!

Springfield XDS in a 45 ACP

Nice shooter and an easy carry

I really like mine

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[piisfish 140]

I would love to try one of these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYMXafe60LU

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[cvfd1399 0]

RonD1120

Farook and Malik planned this. They left their daughter with her grandmother Wednesday morning. They had gear, weapons and IEDs.

Can we say "sleeper cell"?

Workplace violence

[yoink 321]

JohnnyMarko

http://www.9news.com/story/news/nation/2015/12/02/officials-shooting-reported-calif-golf-course/76675776/

Police just confirmed 14 dead, suspect(s) still on the run. Still an active, chaotic scene. Not much info yet.

Nothing new to be learned here.

move along.

[normiss 798]

So far, it appears you would be correct.

[rushmc 23]

normiss

So far, it appears you would be correct.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[cvfd1399 0]

Quote

It was not known where and how the suspects obtained their weapons, which might have been sold originally in other states, and might have gone through multiple owners. Overall, California has the strictest gun laws in the nation, according to the most recent report card by the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

Well obviously they need more laws!

[yoink 321]

cvfd1399

Well obviously they need more laws!

Obviously they need more sarcasm!


How about laws that work and are enforced? Remove the ineffectual ones and design ones that can be policed.

[Driver1 0]

cvfd1399

***Farook and Malik planned this. They left their daughter with her grandmother Wednesday morning. They had gear, weapons and IEDs.

Can we say "sleeper cell"?

Workplace violence

Technically it looks like that, but, this was a Muslim couple. Met online, she was from Saudi Arabia, and he went over there last Spring. Probably doesn't ring any alarm bells but... I'm not ruling out the sleeper cell angle yet.

ETA: Most if not all, workplace violence involves ONE perpetrator. This one had two that we know of and they're both dead. Good riddance.

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[rushmc 23]

yoink

***

Well obviously they need more laws!

Obviously they need more sarcasm!


How about laws that work and are enforced? Remove the ineffectual ones and design ones that can be policed.

Provide examples of both please and we can discuss

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[cvfd1399 0]

yoink

***

Well obviously they need more laws!

Obviously they need more sarcasm!


How about laws that work and are enforced? Remove the ineffectual ones and design ones that can be policed.

I will repeat what I said in the other thread reports are this was a strawpurchase. Legally obtained weapons given to them. What law would stop this? The person buying the guns lied on the forms and broke laws in place when they stated the guns were being purchased for their sole use. Are you suggesting lie detectors to prove you are not lying when you check this box?

[normiss 798]

Requiring complete background checks on all purchases and transfers.
The person that gave them the guns illegally should be facing a minimum of 10 years per offense IMO.

[cvfd1399 0]

The police stated this just wasn't a spur of the moment deal. They had tactical gear and weapons ready to go, and made a stop to drop off the kid beforehand. This wasn't a drunk argument in the parking lot where a guy went and got a pistol out of his glove box.

Quote

That level of preparation is among the factors investigators are weighing as they examine a motive for the attack.

Chief Jarrod Burguan of the San Bernardino Police Department said at a news conference that the attack did not seem to be “a spur-of-the-moment thing”.

[cvfd1399 0]

normiss

Requiring complete background checks on all purchases and transfers.
The person that gave them the guns illegally should be facing a minimum of 10 years per offense IMO.

There was a background check on the legal purchase

They would have known a straw purchase was illegal

What you are suggesting is a box under the one where you say this gun is for your own use that says "are you really sure this gun is for you"

[yoink 321]

rushmc

Provide examples of both please and we can discuss

Nope. That's not my job. Anything I came up with on the spur of the moment just for discussions sake would have dozens of holes in it and you know it... You'd then use that to bolster your own position and I'm not giving you that ammunition.

At least I'm honest enough to know that my solutions aren't ideal.


To come up with a set of laws that will work will require flexibility by politicians and voters that I just don't see. 'Ban all guns!' and 'Arm everyone!' are both dead arguments at the start and are only used to make political positions clear... there's no real drive to implement the change because everyone knows that neither of those things will ever happen.


You and Ron are probably the 2 most pro-gun ownership people I can think of (and my family owns a gun store). I'd be interested to hear what, if any, regulation you would consider acceptable - it doesn't have to be specific - just generalizations to start a discussion.

I'll go first:

For me, the issue isn't about what types of guns are available, or the ammunition. The 'extended mags and assault rifles' laws that were passed were useless - just an exercise in a political win that has no real effect on reducing the ability of these sorts of incidents to kill large numbers of people.

Equally, laws which apply to one state don't work unless draconian border-control is in place. Obviously a non-starter. That means any laws need to apply and be policed equally across all states. There's the first big stumbling block... I'd like to think about how that might be overcome and I suspect that it's only by separating the gun ownership discussion from the political grouping.
I think the first step is to get all parties to say publicly 'we as a people believe there is a problem and that these types of incidents need to stop.' That's all... that's the first baby step in aligning people. The 'how' can come later.

Until there is a consensus that there is a problem and a need to do something tangible to stop it any proposed solution is bound to have giant flaws in it.

[cvfd1399 0]

Quote

I think the first step is to get all parties to say publicly 'we as a people believe there is a problem and that these types of incidents need to stop.

I may be wrong but I am pretty sure people from all sides have been saying this all along. Gun owners are just "gunshy" about how ridiculous the level of ineffective over regulation would be if the process was just turned over to some of the anti gun fanatics are not out there cheering for more mass murders. If anything most of us sit there and scream at the screen to the idots giving the legal responsible owners a bad name.

[billvon 2,989]

>I may be wrong but I am pretty sure people from all sides have been saying this all along.

Great. The first thing we need if we are going to solve the problem is good data. So step 1, something we can do today - end the ban on gun research at the CDC. No new laws, no "ridiculous levels of ineffective over regulation" - just data.

[cvfd1399 0]

How do you prevent biased data?

As an example of gathering info to support your interest the airforce wanted the A-10's to be killed off and the funding to go to their bloated F-35 program so what did they do they stopped using them for close air support missions and then tried to fool lawmakers into saying the F-16/F-15 was better equipped for CASM by using the data that there were more sorties flown for CAS by f-16/f-15 than the A-10. Everyone knows the A-10 is king of CAS. This was eventually found out and the Air force leaders BLASTED for trying to pull this stunt and POTUS pulled the A-10 off the chopping block for a few more years.

The last time they tried this they blamed the A-10 for more blue on blue and civilian casualties than any other military plane and it was found out they lied again and F-18 B-52 and F-14 had more cases of fratricide than it did.