rushmc 23 #101 December 4, 2015 SkyDekkerMy agenda? You appear very paranoid. QuoteShow me more smart guns for sale than the one I found. My point is that they aren't around. Why would I want to find more smart guns for sale for you? ***But, even you have to admit the whole smart gun theme leaves us with more questions than answers Not really. I think they could be a great option for some people. It is unfortunate it is actively discouraged. Problem you have is your last sentence can not be proven. It is your opinion only."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #102 December 4, 2015 jclalorIm not sure if any one else saw this earlier, the shooter's landlord let the press remove the FBI placed plywood from the door and run wild through the house. It was one of the strangest moments of live TV that I've ever seen. I was going to come here to talk about this, but the usual back and forth of bullshit has already taken over the thread. Oh well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #103 December 4, 2015 QuoteProblem you have is your last sentence can not be proven. It is your opinion only. Well, there are a few stories like this. What other viable thesis do you have for them not to be in the market? You also still haven't answered what my agenda is. You also haven't answered why I would want to find more smart guns for sale for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #104 December 4, 2015 SkyDekkerQuoteProblem you have is your last sentence can not be proven. It is your opinion only. Well, there are a few stories like this. What other viable thesis do you have for them not to be in the market?you tell me. You are one saying that they are being stopped from being sold or developed somehow You also still haven't answered what my agenda is. More gun controls? Unlike you I do not think I can read minds You also haven't answered why I would want to find more smart guns for sale for you. You made it sound like these guns were available and retailers are being threatened so they will not sell them. Well, as best I can tell is there are very few that would work for personal protection so they are really not an issue to begin with"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #105 December 4, 2015 SkyDekkerQuoteI have a table saw of the older, careful operation required, variety. I could not justify the price of the fantastically safe version for the amount of use it gets. So therefor it shouldn't be marketed or produced at all? Make both, and have the opportunity to pick the one that's appropriate. Having followed this thread, it seems that the problem with "smart" firearms is not so much the technology involved as it is the enlightened legislation associated with its implementation. I think it was 60 Minutes that did a piece on it. The problem appears to be that, once a new, improved technology is commercially available, anything that does not include this wonderful new advance is immediately and harshly proscribed. The problem is then that by marketing the new technology you screw anyone who does not choose to adopt it. The death threats should be treated as criminal; the closest I ever come is to hope that, say, Diane Feinstein should choke on a chicken bone. The issue is not freedom of choice. If it was, there would not be a problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #106 December 4, 2015 Wanna talk about the female pledging allegiance to ISIS. Workplace violence or terrorism? and if it's terrorism how was ft hood not socially called the same thing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 362 #107 December 4, 2015 SkyDekkerQuoteGuns are inanimate objects. Left to their own devices, they will do nothing. To fix the problem of gun violence we have to fix people. I agree with much of what you are saying, but this statement is simply too one sided. Table saws are inanimate objects. However when people start losing body parts on them, we both teach safety and altered the equipment. With almost all inanimate objects, we look at both training people and make alterations to the product to make it safer to use.Fair enough, but that would only address accidental shootings. Unquestionably that would be a positive step. However I was addressing the far larger number of instances in which guns work exactly as they are designed to work, where the "flaw" is in the mind of the person using the tool. What is it about the US that leads to higher rates of violence involving firearms than one sees in other countries with high rates of gun ownership? I doubt it has anything to do with trigger locks or gun safety classes. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #108 December 4, 2015 cvfd1399Wanna talk about the female pledging allegiance to ISIS. Workplace violence or terrorism? and if it's terrorism how was ft hood not socially called the same thing? It's terrorism. Plain and simple. I think early RonD said something about a sleeper cell...and for once I think he was right on the money. Crazy how the NSA had tabs on them, yet this still happened. A lot of sad, angry, and confused people following this one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Driver1 0 #109 December 4, 2015 What's even more damning... is that Facebook reported that Farook's wife posted praise for ISIS MINUTES INTO the conference room attack. There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #110 December 4, 2015 SkyDekkerSeriously, how hard can it be? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gun+store+death+threats+smart+guns The "death threats" are very true. But only a small part of a larger story. The store in question was in Maryland. A rather strongly anti-gun state. They had passed legislation a few years back something to the effect of "2 years after 'smart gun' technology becomes publicly available, all new guns will be required to have it." It doesn't address how reliable it is, or how widespread, or how expensive. Just that after it becomes at all available, it will be mandatory in a defined period of time. And, of course, the cops were exempt.(I am working off memory, and may have a couple details wrong) So the first store to make it publicly available received threats. I don't condone it, but I can certainly understand it."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #111 December 4, 2015 wolfriverjoe So the first store to make it publicly available received threats. I don't condone it, but I can certainly understand it. But by who?? I can see arguments supporting blaming either side He just assumed it was gun supporter Maybe, but that makes less sense than the other side not wanting these approved weapon available I do not know No one does"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #112 December 4, 2015 Driver1 What's even more damning... is that Facebook reported that Farook's wife posted praise for ISIS MINUTES INTO the conference room attack. Call me crazy, because I think I'm alone on this, but I honestly don't care if the NSA or whatever weird overlords are constantly monitoring me. So they have proof I shop at an adult store. Okay, what are they going to do with that info? So they saw that I texted my boyfriend dinner plans. Okay, what use is that to them? Oooo, they have my credit card number and are tracking my purchases? Okay, they know how much I love Chick-Fil-A. In the back of my head, I just imagine some desk nerd at the NSA who has to flip through all the dick pics I send and mark me a non-threat. But for fuck's sake, if your going to collect all that shit, actually do something if someone uses social media to pledge allegiance to ISIS or makes a legitimate threat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #113 December 4, 2015 Yea FBI or whoever it was said they have been on the radar before, but "we can't arrest anyone for liking someone on Facebook" they said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyMarko 1 #114 December 4, 2015 cvfd1399Yea FBI or whoever it was said they have been on the radar before, but "we can't arrest anyone for liking someone on Facebook" they said. It's very troubling that these people were able to buy guns. I hope in my lifetime I see a nice balance in laws where both the "OBAMA TRYNA TAKE MUH GUNS" and the "melt every last gun and bullet down" people are happy. Sigh, what a time to be in my mid 20's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 798 #115 December 4, 2015 purchase and modification of the weapons Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #116 December 4, 2015 There were laws against 2-3 things they did from your post. How would you stop a person bound to comit mass murder from doing that exact same thing again? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #117 December 4, 2015 I propose this. Everyone owning a gun must take the MMPI2 test. Test will be paid for by the government. Once passed with an extensive background check you are issued a firearms purchase card. All law enforcement, prison, and courts record systems must be linked. When you go to buy a new firearm later your card is scanned, the system runs a check for NEW activity and you are good to go. If you fail the mmpi2 you must wait 5 years to retest. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Multiphasic_Personality_Inventory Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 362 #118 December 4, 2015 normiss purchase and modification of the weaponsInteresting, but I see nothing there that indicates a straw purchase. If Farook was legally able to buy two hand guns at the same time, he was not barred from owning firearms so no crime would have been committed by loaning or giving him the long guns. Of course the modifications and attempted modifications were illegal, but there is no evidence (at least yet) to suggest anyone other than Farook or his wife had a hand in that. I've seen other reports that the FBI had interviewed and cleared the purchaser of the long guns. Still at work though, so limited time for a google search to pull that up. Maybe later. When you said that whoever provided the killers with the long guns should go to jail, was that just venting (and we are all supremely pissed off at yet another mass killing so venting is understandable), or did you have actual evidence that someone other than the killers committed a crime? Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 333 #119 December 4, 2015 cvfd1399I propose this. Everyone owning a gun must take the MMPI2 test. Test will be paid for by the government. Once passed with an extensive background check you are issued a firearms purchase card. All law enforcement, prison, and courts record systems must be linked. When you go to buy a new firearm later your card is scanned, the system runs a check for NEW activity and you are good to go. If you fail the mmpi2 you must wait 5 years to retest. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Multiphasic_Personality_Inventory What do you mean by "failing?" Paranoia is a diagnosis supposedly extractable from the results, but could be common for people that would buy a gun for defense without any real justification (as compared to someone in a higher crime or more remote area, or someone that enjoys target or other shooting). Such a person wouldn't likely pose a danger (or would they?). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #120 December 4, 2015 Fail meaning not pass your evaluation. I have taken it as well as the m-pulse and oral exam. Basically anyone wanting to own a gun has to have this psychological exam first. It's not an end all as sane people have fits of rage too, but I'm just proposing a good mental health test. There may be other tests better fitted, but it is the one most used to find people at risk for mental issues in a pre employment position. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #121 December 4, 2015 rushmc****** The same is done with white cops killing unarmed blacks. Does it happen? Yes but it is rare. . Oh, nothing to worry about then. Carry on. (I wonder how countries like Britain manage to avoid so many cop-on-unarmed-citizen killings). I wonder about a lot of things you puke up.... i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/6/8/1433800472888/5d548db2-75d0-40bb-b6dd-171dce9ba52b-620x500.jpeg?w=620&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=27946e3256810f8f0733c6424f911ccc... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #122 December 4, 2015 Find me an infographic with the number of guns, poverty, and other important measures that make your first infographic so lopsided. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 798 #123 December 4, 2015 Based mostly on the initial reports of a straw purchase. I'm still a fan of requiring a process when transferring weapons. If this person knew what they were planning, should he not be charged as an accessory? Would those charges not include the straw purchase? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #124 December 4, 2015 Criminals or those preparing for a mass murder spree really care about following weapons transfer laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 362 #125 December 5, 2015 normissBased mostly on the initial reports of a straw purchase.I see. I'm sure the issue will be sorted out by law enforcement soon enough. QuoteI'm still a fan of requiring a process when transferring weapons.Me too. QuoteIf this person knew what they were planning, should he not be charged as an accessory? Would those charges not include the straw purchase?Sure, but those are a lot of "ifs". If this person did not know what they were planning, there would have been no legal reason not to sell him the guns. I think I read somewhere that the handguns were legally purchased about 4 years ago. I definitely recall reading that the killer listed "target shooting in the back yard" as a favored activity on a dating website 4 years ago, so he must have had firearms then. The long guns were purchased around the same time as the handguns (as per the article you linked). A lot can change in 4 years. There is now indication that he might have been radicalized by his wife, whom he met 2 years ago. I'm not interested in getting into some silly dispute over parsing words, like that stupid terrorism/workplace violence thread. If whoever provided the guns did so knowing how they would be used, that person obviously deserves to be fried. I'm just saying there is no real evidence yet that that happened, and it is just as plausible that the guns were sold to him in good faith. Time will tell. Have a fun and safe weekend. That goes for all who are reading this thread. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
