Adolf Trump

[billvon 2,991]

>Why do you think that these are the only choices?

They're not! You were disagreeing with the statement "Banning Muslim immigration will make the US less safe" and saying that banning Muslims was similar to keeping terrorists out.

>What about better screening?

Great. Let's see the plan. For now, we have such excellent screening that none of the terrorist attacks in the US have come from refugees. If you want to improve that even more, and can explain how to pay for it, propose something.

> Is it so hard to ask people to provide us with some information and then we verify it?

We do that now. So if that is the concern, it's already been addressed.

[billvon 2,991]

>Just Maybe, we need to look at the culture and figure out what the heck
>we've done to it, such that so many people are resonating with these
>messages. These oversimplifies, one size fits all, ignore our rights, ignore our
>vision, just spit out a soundbite and hope the fish bite.

There's a good book out there - "why we hate us" - that talks about much of this, why we are starting to react with such polarized emotions to simple issues. Some of the signposts of this that the author lists:

Cell-phone talkers broadcasting the intimate details of their lives in public spaces
Worship of self-awareness, self-realization, and self-fulfillment
T-shirts that read, “Eat Me”
Facebook, MySpace, and kids being taught to market themselves
High-level cheating in business and sports
Reality television and the cosmetic surgery boom
Multinational corporations that claim, “We care about you.”
The decline of organic communities
A line of cosmetics called “S.L.U.T.”
The phony red state–blue state divide
The penetration of OmniMarketing into OmniMedia and the insinuation of both into every facet of our lives

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Apparently a better society only matters to you if you are entertained?

I am not here to make the US a better society.

Quote

But pouting and having a childish conversation rather than converting more to your point

Comparing Trump's statements to Hitler and indicating he is a fascist is pouting and childish? Like I said, you and I may be on a different planet.

Quote

Isolating them and treating them like shit and then patting yourself on the back doesn't help.

I am not isolating anybody. I am sure that once I unfriend them on facebook they can still talk to other people. I am not that important, but thank you for thinking otherwise.

[rehmwa 2]

SkyDekker

I am not that important, but thank you for thinking otherwise.

I think you're important, man. (chest bump)




But your 2nd sentence shows you still refuse to even try to acknowledge my point.

Last try - It's not about the details of Trumps crappy positions which I agree with you.

It's about the fact that more and more people on any and all topics come across and treat others like Funjumper does and fewer and fewer come across like Wendy. I think that's a huge part of the problem.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

billvon

>Just Maybe, we need to look at the culture and figure out what the heck
>we've done to it, such that so many people are resonating with these
>messages. These oversimplifies, one size fits all, ignore our rights, ignore our
>vision, just spit out a soundbite and hope the fish bite.

There's a good book out there - "why we hate us" - that talks about much of this, why we are starting to react with such polarized emotions to simple issues. Some of the signposts of this that the author lists:

Cell-phone talkers broadcasting the intimate details of their lives in public spaces
Worship of self-awareness, self-realization, and self-fulfillment
T-shirts that read, “Eat Me”
Facebook, MySpace, and kids being taught to market themselves
High-level cheating in business and sports
Reality television and the cosmetic surgery boom
Multinational corporations that claim, “We care about you.”
The decline of organic communities
A line of cosmetics called “S.L.U.T.”
The phony red state–blue state divide
The penetration of OmniMarketing into OmniMedia and the insinuation of both into every facet of our lives

signposts/symptoms - certainly. maybe go into the social inputs that have caused this push too I suspect.

Thanks, I only focused on the political marketing and cultural/social manipulation of the last couple decades and how it's natural that policy, programs, and presentation would move us this way. your list supplements with market/social indicators etc - more of a passive effect rather than mis-guided calculated effort. I wonder more about which is cause vs effect, is it a natural evolution? or did we do it to ourselves?

Maybe it's just old man "get off my lawn" fiction too, I don't know.... I might try to find the book - Does it discuss objectively enough? or do you think it would appeal to the excessively left or right types?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

It's about the fact that more and more people on any and all topics come across and treat others like Funjumper does and fewer and fewer come across like Wendy. I think that's a huge part of the problem.

Don't disagree with that.

[Bolas 5]

DanG

Quote

Explain to me how keeping terrorist from entering the country makes us less safe.

First of all, your premise is flawed. The proposal isn't about keeping terrorists out of the country, it is about keeping Muslims out of the country. You assume that Muslim=terrorist. You also assume that terrorists are so stupid that they would self-identify as Muslims. If they are dedicated enough to spend 2+ years going through the refugee approval process, don't you think they might be capable of claiming to be Christian?

Obviously there would need to be a test such as offering them a BLT.

Quote

Secondly, by banning Muslim movement into the US, we confirm what ISIS has been saying all along, that the US is at war with Islam. They can legitimately say, "Look, the US hates all Muslims. They have been killing us over here for decades because they want to destroy Islam!" Anti-Muslim legislation is the best ISIS recruiting tool possible. And you know who the most valuable recruits are? Young, disgruntled Muslims living in the US already. They won't need to send Syrian ISIS fighters off to spend 2+ years going throug a rigorous screening process, hoping not to get caught. They will just up their US recruitment and we'll have more of the same kind of attacks like San Bernadino.

For someone who claims to have a military mind, you sure don't understand insurgency tactics very well.

You got to hand it to these terrorist groups, they've done wonders with the CIA training they received over the years.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Obviously there would need to be a test such as offering them a BLT.

Nazis used to check for circumcision. Lots of Muslim men got killed being mistaken for Jews.

[DanG 1]

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No one (Even Trump) is suggesting a complete ban.

Uh, yeah. That's exactly what is being suggested. If you want to change the discussion, fine. But we're talking about a total ban on Muslims entering the US.

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As far as why they Jihad when they get here, it's not because they think we don't like them. That is your second mistake. You are following Obama's misguided notion of Islam guided by some romantic notion of his smoke filled "Dreams of his Father" that has been wrong at every turn.

First learn about the Sunni Muslim's Pilgrimages to Mecca, Wahhabism, dhimmitude, the core tenants of Sharia Law, and the life and times of Muhammed (concentrating on battle strategy and how ISIS has been applying it), and then you might have the basic required knowledge to talk to me on a meaningful level.

Your above post proves your not quite there yet.

Weak as shit. When the best you're got is "I know a lot about this, so don't bother disagreeing with me" it usually shows that you haven't examined your thoughts on the matter with any criticality. Nice try shutting me up without actually saying anything. Unfortunately, the tactic is obvious.

As my 2nd grade teacher told me, if you can't explain it to someone else, you don't really understand it yourself.

Any meaningful rebuttal to my points? Don't worry, I don't really expect anything, but if you'd like to respond, here is your chance.

- Dan G

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Uh, yeah. That's exactly what is being suggested. If you want to change the discussion, fine. But we're talking about a total ban on Muslims entering the US.

Including American Muslims and including American Muslims currently stationed overseas with US Armed Forces.

[Rstanley0312 1]

Not at you Dekker... just a general post. Trump has no chance of winning. He will not be the nominee. He is not a conservative and running with an R next to his name is a sham. People keep citing polls... the truth is, the polls are not a good prediction tool in primaries and have never been. Rubio is the odds on favorite with Cruz running a close second.

I will say that Trump could be hurting the GOP... I personally think he hurts humanity as a whole.

If any of you actually think he has a chance then I have some property in space to sell you.

That is all

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[Stumpy 284]

Rstanley0312

... I personally think he hurts humanity as a whole.

I'm not entirely sure he (and his more ardent supporters) even qualify.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[normiss 800]

With the expectation of most not wanting to go to the site, jebbush.com got Rick Rolled.


Clickified

[Rstanley0312 1]

normiss

With the expectation of most not wanting to go to the site, jebbush.com got Rick Rolled.


Clickified

Ya... that's not Jeb's actual site but leave it to a business man to identify that and buy the URL.

Jeb has no chance either. He is finished and should be. That guy cannot speak in public worth a damn.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[Rstanley0312 1]

Stumpy

***... I personally think he hurts humanity as a whole.

I'm not entirely sure he (and his more ardent supporters) even qualify.

Agreed for the most part. I do know people that I consider intelligent and practical people that have been snared early on by him but the more he talks the more they realize who he really is. People are just pissed at the government as a whole so he speaks to that but for all that he says he has really said nothing.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

but for all that he says he has really said nothing.

To me that is a scary opinion to have. A leader standing up and saying amongst others:

Mexicans are rapists
Encouraging a physical altercation with someone who disagreed with him
Muslim tracking data base
Banning all Muslims
Infiltrating all mosques

That can't just be waved away as somebody saying nothing.

[jgoose71 0]

DanG

Quote

No one (Even Trump) is suggesting a complete ban.

Uh, yeah. That's exactly what is being suggested. If you want to change the discussion, fine. But we're talking about a total ban on Muslims entering the US.

Quote

As far as why they Jihad when they get here, it's not because they think we don't like them. That is your second mistake. You are following Obama's misguided notion of Islam guided by some romantic notion of his smoke filled "Dreams of his Father" that has been wrong at every turn.

First learn about the Sunni Muslim's Pilgrimages to Mecca, Wahhabism, dhimmitude, the core tenants of Sharia Law, and the life and times of Muhammed (concentrating on battle strategy and how ISIS has been applying it), and then you might have the basic required knowledge to talk to me on a meaningful level.

Your above post proves your not quite there yet.

Weak as shit. When the best you're got is "I know a lot about this, so don't bother disagreeing with me" it usually shows that you haven't examined your thoughts on the matter with any criticality. Nice try shutting me up without actually saying anything. Unfortunately, the tactic is obvious.

As my 2nd grade teacher told me, if you can't explain it to someone else, you don't really understand it yourself.

Any meaningful rebuttal to my points? Don't worry, I don't really expect anything, but if you'd like to respond, here is your chance.

I gave you an awesome starting point to learn about who they are, what motivates them, why they do what they do, and how they attend to accomplish it and what is your response?

"I don't got time to look shit up, read, and learn."

It's not as simple as what Obama would make you think. Oh well, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[DanG 1]

Like I expected. No substance.

BTW, you're not the only person in the world with experience in this area.

- Dan G

[billvon 2,991]

>Trump has no chance of winning. He will not be the nominee.

Yep. I have heard this dozens of times since the beginning of his candidacy.

"He claims Obama is not a citizen! Does he think the voters are idiots?"
"Now he is claiming that vaccines cause autism. No one will believe him after this."
"What? He called all Mexicans rapists? This time he's gone too far! It's all over for him."
"I can't believe he claimed that a woman reporter was asking him tough questions because she was on the rag! He's done."
"Can you believe he claimed that the pyramids were used to store grain? He won't be taken seriously after this."
"He just claimed he saw thousands of Muslims celebrating during 9/11! The US public won't stand for those sort of lies."
"He claims that he knows when an attack is imminent because he 'can feel terrorism!' No one is going to believe him after this. It's all over for him."
"He wants to ban Muslims on the basis of their religion! He doesn't even understand the Constitution. He will not be the nominee."

And every time he does that his poll numbers go up.

And yeah, it's fine to say "oh, it's just a poll; he's just popular right now because of X." But that's how elections work. The popular person wins.

A lot of people seem to think "well, OK, he's funny and all, but the GOP is just waiting to bring out a serious candidate and ditch this clown." Again, great idea. It keeps not happening despite months of their best efforts.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>I keep hearing this and I just don't get it. Explain to me how keeping terrorist
>from entering the country makes us less safe.

Denying refugees will not keep terrorists out, and banning refugees will give us a false sense of security that will make us less safe. Much like the TSA.

How many of the 9/11 bombers were refugees?

You do know that in 1952 a Dem congress sent a bill to the pres that he signed that give a sitting pres the power, by proclamation, to stop or ban any immigration for any reason he deems needed to protect the US

And in the 1960 Cater used that law to stop Iranians from coming to the US and he deported over 9 k
The deportation came after he ordered all Iranian student to report within one month. Those who had over stayed their visa were sent home

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

So when you replace Muslim and mosque with Jew and synagogue, doesn't he sound like quite the Nazi?

I further liked his idea to close the internet until he has seen Bill Gates.

Frontrunner.....wow.

Godwin in the title, I know, but the comparison is apt I think.

So should it Adlof Carter too?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,991]

>I've fought side by side with Muslims.

Doesn't matter; they are the enemy now. To quote Trump's campaign: "So what? They're Muslim."

[DanG 1]

Did Carter round up all the Muslims and register them? Did he proclaim that only Christians should be allowed to migrate here? Are you of the opinion that Jimmy Carter was a great president and should be emulated?

- Dan G

[SkyDekker 1,465]

rushmc

***>I keep hearing this and I just don't get it. Explain to me how keeping terrorist
>from entering the country makes us less safe.

Denying refugees will not keep terrorists out, and banning refugees will give us a false sense of security that will make us less safe. Much like the TSA.

How many of the 9/11 bombers were refugees?

You do know that in 1952 a Dem congress sent a bill to the pres that he signed that give a sitting pres the power, by proclamation, to stop or ban any immigration for any reason he deems needed to protect the US

And in the 1960 Cater used that law to stop Iranians from coming to the US and he deported over 9 k
The deportation came after he ordered all Iranian student to report within one month. Those who had over stayed their visa were sent home

You do know that applies to aliens and those on visas, not Americans who happen to be of a certain religion.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

rushmc

***So when you replace Muslim and mosque with Jew and synagogue, doesn't he sound like quite the Nazi?

I further liked his idea to close the internet until he has seen Bill Gates.

Frontrunner.....wow.

Godwin in the title, I know, but the comparison is apt I think.

So should it Adlof Carter too?

Not surprised to see it took you a day to figure out from the right wing websites what your opinion on the matter is.

Not surprised you are in the camp of happily supporting these ideas.