Adolf Trump

[turtlespeed 220]

billvon

>It's "us against them" no matter which side you subscribe to.

Unless you subscribe to neither.

MOST people in this society identify with one more than the other.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 800]

I don't believe that's accurate.

[ryoder 1,590]

billvon

>It's "us against them" no matter which side you subscribe to.

Unless you subscribe to neither.

Agreed.
In CO, the unaffiliated voters out number registered D's and R's, and get fucked over in the primary: http://www.npr.org/2016/02/28/467961962/sick-of-political-parties-unaffiliated-voters-are-changing-politics

Or to be specific, there is no primary vote, just closed caucuses.

ETA: And even if you have registered for the Caucus Circus, you can get shafted like this: http://www.dailycamera.com/local-election-news/ci_29582657/huge-crowds-reported-at-boulder-countys-democratic-caucus

I haven't seen a voting booth since the 90's, but vote every time; CO has had mail-in ballots since the turn of the century. There is no excuse for not having primaries by mail.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[billvon 2,991]

>MOST people in this society identify with one more than the other.

That's fine. But until people stop subscribing uniquely to one side or another, our current system will continue as-is.

[Coreeece 2]

normiss

I don't believe that's accurate.

Of course - you claim to be conservative, but everything about you screams liberal. Seems like you have something in common with Trump.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[okalb 104]

Coreeece

***I don't believe that's accurate.

Of course - you claim to be conservative, but everything about you screams liberal. Seems like you have something in common with Trump.

Or it could be that he is a true conservative and the right wing religious freak show has moved things so far right that you can't tell what an actual conservative looks like at this point.

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[Coreeece 2]

okalb

******I don't believe that's accurate.

Of course - you claim to be conservative, but everything about you screams liberal. Seems like you have something in common with Trump.

Or it could be that he is a true conservative and the right wing religious freak show has moved things so far right that you can't tell what an actual conservative looks like at this point.

Probably so...same thing can be said for the dems. Who's fault is that?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[okalb 104]

Coreeece

*********I don't believe that's accurate.

Of course - you claim to be conservative, but everything about you screams liberal. Seems like you have something in common with Trump.

Or it could be that he is a true conservative and the right wing religious freak show has moved things so far right that you can't tell what an actual conservative looks like at this point.

Probably so...same thing can be said for the dems. Who's fault is that?

Granola crunching tree huggers :)

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[yoink 321]

Coreeece

Probably so...same thing can be said for the dems. Who's fault is that?

Ours.

That's precisely my point. If people start associating with labels rather than policies then it just gets out of control.

My father in law is a staunch Republican. He will not ever back a democratic policy - even if it is typically conservative one simply because it's labelled as Democratic. Equally, he'll support Republican policies he doesn't agree with because it's a label he associates with.


It's so very, very stupid and its why the parties are becoming caricatures of themselves. As long as they identify as 'Democrat' or 'Republican', being against the other guy is a more important message than any actual policy they might stand for.

[billvon 2,991]

>Probably so...same thing can be said for the dems. Who's fault is that?

I doubt that. Clinton would have been considered too conservative to run as a democrat in an election 30 years ago due to her positions, just as Reagan would be considered too liberal today to run for a GOP presidency.

The entire country has moved right. The old two-axis graph has the dots far in the right hand corner right these days.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2004

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Texan who says Obama was a gay prostitute holds commanding lead in Board of Education vote

She also believes:

•“School shootings started after the schools started teaching evolution.”
•“Many of the (sexual education) books which teachers read to your small children are not allowed in jails and prisons because of the bad effect the books have on the prisoners. These books stimulate children to experiment with sex.”
•“The Democrat Party had JFK killed because the socialists and Communists in the party did not want a conservative president.”
•“It is a goal of United Nations' Agenda 21 and the One World Order to reduce the population of the world by 2/3.”

Yet majority of people vote for her.

No wonder Trump gets so much support. He must actually sound sane and normal to many people.

[billvon 2,991]

Quote

•“School shootings started after the schools started teaching evolution.”
•“Many of the (sexual education) books which teachers read to your small children are not allowed in jails and prisons because of the bad effect the books have on the prisoners. These books stimulate children to experiment with sex.”
•“The Democrat Party had JFK killed because the socialists and Communists in the party did not want a conservative president.”
•“It is a goal of United Nations' Agenda 21 and the One World Order to reduce the population of the world by 2/3.”

They must have held a vote on all the above. This is a democracy, you know.

[Coreeece 2]

billvon

>Probably so...same thing can be said for the dems. Who's fault is that?

I doubt that. Clinton would have been considered too conservative to run as a democrat in an election 30 years ago due to her positions, just as Reagan would be considered too liberal today to run for a GOP presidency.

The entire country has moved right. The old two-axis graph has the dots far in the right hand corner right these days.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2004

I was talking to a couple union guys from Jersey as we sampled the new rare double IPA (64IBU 10%) at the local brewery up here - why were they were in northern Michigan? long story.

...anyway, after a few doubles we started talking politics and I jokingly insulted Christie to see their reaction. After a few spurious laughs and an awkward silence, I used your line. I said, "no - but seriously, people have been saying that he's the only republican candidate that seemed to have been halfway rational?"

After that, they could'nt say enough about how great Christie was and how he's been skrewed by all these other politicians over some bridge - which is why he's "pissed off and backing his good friend Trump." Together they're supposedly gonna "run this country like a business and stop giving handouts."

I asked them, "so what are you gonna do when you get laid off this spring, collect unemployment?" (something to which they alluded to earlier) "Pfffft, fuck ya, I ain't working - I'm old...I did my time."

This is all despite the fact that their "economy is booming - lots of jobs - good pay - 200k+"

20 years ago, these guys were democrats...

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[normiss 800]

I've never claimed to be conservative, or anything for that matter.
My views seem to span one extreme to the other, depending on the topic.
I'm sorry you see it so one sided.
Must be frustrating.

[Coreeece 2]

normiss

I've never claimed to be conservative, or anything for that matter.

My bad, You claimed not to be liberal. You claimed to be a registered republican.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4778822;search_string=republican;#4778822

normiss

My views seem to span one extreme to the other, depending on the topic.

That's probably your problem, and why I hardly ever agree with you.

normiss

I'm sorry you see it so one sided.

I'm sorry you're so confused as to who you really are.

normiss

Must be frustrating.

Ya, right - as if your political preference is actually "frustrating" to me.

Narcissistic delusions of grandeur - another thing you obviously have in common with Trump.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[rushmc 23]

billvon

Quote

•“School shootings started after the schools started teaching evolution.”
•“Many of the (sexual education) books which teachers read to your small children are not allowed in jails and prisons because of the bad effect the books have on the prisoners. These books stimulate children to experiment with sex.”
•“The Democrat Party had JFK killed because the socialists and Communists in the party did not want a conservative president.”
•“It is a goal of United Nations' Agenda 21 and the One World Order to reduce the population of the world by 2/3.”

They must have held a vote on all the above. This is a democracy, you know.

Bad education
The US is not a democracy
It is a representative republic
The founders did not want a democracy

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,027]

rushmc

***

Quote

•“School shootings started after the schools started teaching evolution.”
•“Many of the (sexual education) books which teachers read to your small children are not allowed in jails and prisons because of the bad effect the books have on the prisoners. These books stimulate children to experiment with sex.”
•“The Democrat Party had JFK killed because the socialists and Communists in the party did not want a conservative president.”
•“It is a goal of United Nations' Agenda 21 and the One World Order to reduce the population of the world by 2/3.”

They must have held a vote on all the above. This is a democracy, you know.

Bad education
The US is not a democracy
It is a representative republic



Not so representative, after gerrymandering district boundaries, voter ID laws to disenfranchise whole segments of the population, and a Senate that makes some voters much more equal than others.

Quote

The founders did not want a democracy

Indeed they didn't: no votes for women, no votes for much of the male population either, an Electoral College to make sure that the wealthy elite got its way despite the wishes of the common people.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

kallend

******

Quote

•“School shootings started after the schools started teaching evolution.”
•“Many of the (sexual education) books which teachers read to your small children are not allowed in jails and prisons because of the bad effect the books have on the prisoners. These books stimulate children to experiment with sex.”
•“The Democrat Party had JFK killed because the socialists and Communists in the party did not want a conservative president.”
•“It is a goal of United Nations' Agenda 21 and the One World Order to reduce the population of the world by 2/3.”

They must have held a vote on all the above. This is a democracy, you know.

Bad education
The US is not a democracy
It is a representative republic



Not so representative, after gerrymandering district boundaries, voter ID laws to disenfranchise whole segments of the population, and a Senate that makes some voters much more equal than others.

Quote

The founders did not want a democracy

Indeed they didn't: no votes for women, no votes for much of the male population either, an Electoral College to make sure that the wealthy elite got its way despite the wishes of the common people.

this is what happens when courts turn activists
which you usually like

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,027]

rushmc

The founders did not want a democracy

Indeed they didn't: no votes for women, no votes for much of the male population either, an Electoral College to make sure that the wealthy elite got its way despite the wishes of the common people.

Quote

this is what happens when courts turn activists
which you usually like

It seems that you haven't actually bothered to READ The Constitution, as written, and the original intent thereof, as documented.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

kallend

***

The founders did not want a democracy

Indeed they didn't: no votes for women, no votes for much of the male population either, an Electoral College to make sure that the wealthy elite got its way despite the wishes of the common people.

Quote

this is what happens when courts turn activists
which you usually like

It seems that you haven't actually bothered to READ The Constitution, as written, and the original intent thereof, as documented.

Actually I have
Along with the Federalist papers so I understood the intent
something you should do

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 800]

Comprehension of written words would go a long way towards your understanding another person's point of view.

[winsor 236]

kallend

***
The founders did not want a democracy

Indeed they didn't: no votes for women, no votes for much of the male population either, an Electoral College to make sure that the wealthy elite got its way despite the wishes of the common people.

You make it sound like a bad thing.

Though attributed to de Toqueville, Alexander Fraser Tytler, Lord Woodhouselee seems to have originated the following

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.
The average age of the world's greatest civilisations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage."

We are pretty much in the apathy to dependence stage.

Beyond the "Meeting House Democracy" scale, have-nots are thus the bane of attempts at pure Democracy. Switzerland works pretty well, but there are precious few have-nots amongst them.


BSBD,

Winsor

[turtlespeed 220]

Coreeece

***I've never claimed to be conservative, or anything for that matter.

My bad, You claimed not to be liberal. You claimed to be a registered republican.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4778822;search_string=republican;#4778822

normiss

My views seem to span one extreme to the other, depending on the topic.

That's probably your problem, and why I hardly ever agree with you.

normiss

I'm sorry you see it so one sided.

I'm sorry you're so confused as to who you really are.

normiss

Must be frustrating.

Ya, right - as if your political preference is actually "frustrating" to me.

Narcissistic delusions of grandeur - another thing you obviously have in common with Trump.

I remembered that first one -

Quote

I've never considered myself a liberal.
Most of my voting age experience has been as a registered Republican, not all, but most.

Somebody is being just as honest as Hillary.

Quote

I've never considered myself a liberal.
Most of my voting age experience has been as a registered Republican, not all, but most.

So was he lying the, or is he lying now?

Maybe he was a registered Rebublican that just wasn't conservative.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 800]

Your comprehension is just as bad.
Words USED to mean things.
Stop assuming and putting your spin on it and read the words I wrote.
Bollocks man.
WTF does "not all" mean to you people with single perspectives on everything?

[turtlespeed 220]

normiss

Your comprehension is just as bad.
Words USED to mean things.
Stop assuming and putting your spin on it and read the words I wrote.
Bollocks man.
WTF does "not all" mean to you people with single perspectives on everything?

You wrote:

Quote

I've never claimed to be conservative, or anything for that matter

It appears you did.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun