Are you Americans crazy enough to put Donald Trump in office?

[TriGirl 319]

ryoder

***
My guess is he's talking about Palin, that said, she is batshit crazy.

(I might have voted for McCain were it not for her.)

For years McCain built a reputation as a maverick who did his own thinking instead of always following the party line, and I had hope that someday I'd be able to vote for him. Then he got the nomination and immediately became Dubya's best buddy and began campaigning on the principle that he would be Dubya v2.0, (and nominated an ignorant hick as VP). So I believed him and didn't vote for him.
+1. I actually wrote him in for two elections. Then what you wrote happened, and I couldn't vote for him.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[SionaSioux 0]

434

Respect for your long and understandable answer.

But you know, Us, is the head of our world (our, allies, Un, etc), while Russia, is growing stronger, China is ahead, India next, so on.

When we as allies, turn our back to Us, because you have an moron as an president. What then? Trump can not take back all his statements. Mexico, China, bomb Syria back to stoneage, you get where I want.

All great civilations have finely ended. Thats my point.

the US already has a moron president who turned his back on allies and helped their enemies and started one war (Libya) that made another war worst (Syria) that threatens Europe. How can the batshit crazy billionaire be worst than the guy who never had a job? you all act like the moron for last seven years never existed. what is up with that?

Always remember the danger.

Never forget the fun!

[turtlespeed 221]

SionaSioux

***Respect for your long and understandable answer.

But you know, Us, is the head of our world (our, allies, Un, etc), while Russia, is growing stronger, China is ahead, India next, so on.

When we as allies, turn our back to Us, because you have an moron as an president. What then? Trump can not take back all his statements. Mexico, China, bomb Syria back to stoneage, you get where I want.

All great civilations have finely ended. Thats my point.

the US already has a moron president who turned his back on allies and helped their enemies and started one war (Libya) that made another war worst (Syria) that threatens Europe. How can the batshit crazy billionaire be worst than the guy who never had a job? you all act like the moron for last seven years never existed. what is up with that?

It's called intentional aloofness.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[434 2]

Somebody have a short time memory in here?

[turtlespeed 221]

434

Somebody have a short time memory in here?

Just because a puppet preceded the president in office now does not make him any less an idiot.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[434 2]

It is kind of akward, that those who think Obama is an idiot, is willing the wote for Trump.

[piisfish 140]

the good thing about Trump is that his corporation might make Rollerball a reality

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[wmw999 2,456]

(About wanting to vote for McCain based on his pre-2008 reputation and performance).

Me three. And I'll just bet that while maybe not completely representative of the population at large, we represent a trend.

I personally think that the country would be in a much better place now had he been elected in 2000, instead of Bush. We wouldn't have had Bush, and we probably wouldn't have had Obama. I still like Obama way better than Bush, but that's a relative, not an absolute, statement.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[DanG 1]

Quote

(About wanting to vote for McCain based on his pre-2008 reputation and performance).

Me three. And I'll just bet that while maybe not completely representative of the population at large, we represent a trend.

Me four. He really blew it with the Palin choice.

- Dan G

[ryoder 1,590]

This sums up the GOP debate.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[rehmwa 2]

wmw999

I still like Obama way better than Bush, but that's a relative, not an absolute, statement.

I like Obama better than all the current candidates (both parties)
I like Bush better than Obama
I like Clinton better than Bush
I like GHB better than Clinton
I like Ron better than GHB
I didn't really like Carter, but he was a gentleman (during his term)

but the overall trend is going towards less statesmanship and moving to lowbrow entertainment and shockjock idiocy

we should be getting better candidates, but it seems we just keep sliding the other way

but that's what the market (voting public and press) demands, and the supply side is responding

(insert childishly cruel meme here)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wmw999 2,456]

Why is trying to appeal to voters who might otherwise go to the other party seen as weakness (in my view, particularly by the Republicans, who even have a name for it, RINO). Somehow it appears as a form of wanting not only to win, but crush the opponent into jellied weakness, I guess so they "never pose a threat again," or something like that.

Or am I missing something here? Honest question; I remember having the discussion with a VERY conservative friend about ten years ago, and he said not really, but he couldn't articulate what it was about.

I don't seem to see that as much on the liberal side; they're all too busy trying to out-weird each other to try to keep anyone out as far as I can tell.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[DanG 1]

Quote

Why is trying to appeal to voters who might otherwise go to the other party seen as weakness (in my view, particularly by the Republicans, who even have a name for it, RINO). Somehow it appears as a form of wanting not only to win, but crush the opponent into jellied weakness, I guess so they "never pose a threat again," or something like that.

We must fight them over there so we won't have to fight them here.

Or something like that.

- Dan G

[rehmwa 2]

Maybe the question isn't - which of the players are we most scared of as president

Maybe it's more like - which ones are we scared of they get a couple years of a 'same team' in both houses? (brought up elsewhere here - it was a really good point by either Quade or Jakee, I don't recall which)

Bernie? - Maybe even a Dem congress will still reel him in. Hard to tell.

Hillary? - a Dem congress will back her up, too tempting to push the agenda harder

Donald? - regardless of Congress party balance - both parties will have to hold him back - Dems disagree with him, Reps don't dare let him do anything because they won't tolerate an outsider (and they find him despicable also)

Cruz? - His own people don't even like him. Likely he'll get held back too. But maybe not as he's establishment and sticking it to the Dems will be too tempting. too tempting to push the agenda harder

Rubio? - kinda like Hillary, a Rep congress would back him up


Bernie or Trump in an aspect that considers the balance of powers might not be so horrible (only in this aspect, other aspects have their own horribleness)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DanG 1]

I'm not sure I agree with your analysis.

If you use he standard risk analysis methodology, you need to look at the two aspects of risk: likelihood, and consequences. With a Trump or Sanders presidency, you assign the likelihood of them getting their agendas passed as low. The concern I have is that the consequences would be very dear. With a low likelihood but high consequences, the risk is still significant.

With Clinton or Rubio presidency, the likelihood and consequences are both moderate (IMO). The risk is still significant, but the downsides are reduced. Personally I'm more comfortable with the higher potential for the country to slide downhill a little than I am with the lower potential for the country to fall off a cliff.

- Dan G

[rehmwa 2]

DanG

I'm not sure I agree with your analysis.

If you use he standard risk analysis methodology, you need to look at the two aspects of risk: likelihood, and consequences. With a Trump or Sanders presidency, you assign the likelihood of them getting their agendas passed as low. The concern I have is that the consequences would be very dear. With a low likelihood but high consequences, the risk is still significant.

With Clinton or Rubio presidency, the likelihood and consequences are both moderate (IMO). The risk is still significant, but the downsides are reduced. Personally I'm more comfortable with the higher potential for the country to slide downhill a little than I am with the lower potential for the country to fall off a cliff.

Yes - I only looked at one leg. There are other considerations (as I PAINFULLY tried to make clear if you read it)

Quote

(only in this aspect)

I usually structure risk analysis like you suggest - but three criteria: likelihood, detectability, consequences (in this case, detection being a bit obtuse)

I have no issue with how you looked at it and kind of agree (though not sure anymore if "business as usual" is more of a 'short term only' safety position. vs huge shakeup maybe being needed) but not really the aspect I was wondering about.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[turtlespeed 221]

Why did it hurt so much?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[piisfish 140]

Italian humour about trumpet

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[ryoder 1,590]

Trump reverses on ordering murder and torture: http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-reverses-his-stance-on-torture-1457116559

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[gowlerk 2,216]

ryoder

Trump reverses on ordering murder and torture: http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-reverses-his-stance-on-torture-1457116559

Devil's advocate here. (almost literally) In a world where leaders rain bombs upon wedding parties accidentally and bomb homes knowing children are with the targets and the words "collateral damage" justify it, and torture is now simply "EIT", Donald Trump's plan is basically for more of the same.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[JerryBaumchen 1,371]

Hi 434,

Quote

Are you Americans crazy

Possibly; here are some cartoons from around the world: http://www.politico.com/magazine/gallery/2016/03/foreign-cartoonists-trump-000621?slide=0

Jerry Baumchen

[lurch 0]

I will now pop back in to a total necro thread just to say...

Yes. Yes, they are.
Angry people have broken the system.
We have just witnessed the biggest "Fuck You" vote in human history. The punch line to the greatest practical joke ever pulled.
Looks like the clown gets to drive.
It's the facepalm heard around the world.
Fasten your seat belts.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[rushmc 23]

lurch

I will now pop back in to a total necro thread just to say...

Yes. Yes, they are.
Angry people have broken the system.
We have just witnessed the biggest "Fuck You" vote in human history. The punch line to the greatest practical joke ever pulled.
Looks like the clown gets to drive.
It's the facepalm heard around the world.
Fasten your seat belts.
-B

First denial
then sadness
then anger
then acceptance

Contrats!
You went straight to anger.

and you are wrong
Angry people voted to fix the problems
the problems that are tied to liberal policy
This is a good first step
The next two good steps
Repeal Obamacare
Secure the borders

Then

Enterprise zones in the inner cities
Kill the tax that stops corporations from bring their money back into the states to fund the growth we need and can have.
Open up oil reserves, kill the current clean air bs and stop the war on coal.(ya ya ya, I want my grand kids to choke on dirty air and burn their mouths on polluted water)
Lower income taxes
Lower corp taxes

Fill the supreme courts with strict constitutionalist judges.
Slit the 9 DC court of appeals and add at least 3 more judges to counter the libs Obama overstuffed it with.

This is just a starter listHang on

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lurch 0]

Who said -I'm- angry? I think it's fucking hilarious. Personally I can't actually support putting somebody that unqualified into office. But I've thoroughly enjoyed the show.

The american people have finally grown so sick of being bought and sold, body and soul by their supposed representatives, that they were willing to break the system, by force, to stop it from having its way with them again. Against the combined might of the political establishment and the mainstream media, they succeeded.

To a political nihilist, this is the most awesome thing ever. Regardless of how stupid a choice Trump is, his election breaks the cycle. At long last I got to see something I never thought I'd see in my lifetime- Both political parties defied, both political parties defeated, frustrated, prevented from getting what they want.
It is the last great act of defiance of the american public. It is the revenge, of the american public against their politicians.
The american public voted Trump in just to force both parties to choke on him. Now we all get to watch them choke. They're choking.

And it has probably prevented World War III. Our political class got away with Iraq. They were narrowly frustrated in their ambition to move on to Iran only because having already spent the treasury dry on their last pet war without bothering to finish it, the public wasn't going to tolerate them charging off to start another.
Hillary never saw a war she didn't like.
This is a woman so amoral that she publicly stated that the incidental deaths of half a million Iraqi children was "Worth it." The political class was trying like hell to sign us up for war with Russia, a war neither side wanted but the politicians couldn't wait to set off. All those profitable weapons contracts!

Now, at least we can be pretty sure we won't be going to war with Russia. The american empire is still going down but maybe now we won't take half the planet with us out of spite. We'll be too busy trying to keep the clown at the helm from doing too much damage domestically.

Like I said much further upstream... the ruling classes have sold idiocy and trash glorified as virtue for decades because the ignorant, poor and desperate are easily manipulated, easily controlled. They never, ever considered that such a control strategy might backfire on them.

But, boy, did it. They wanted it. They worked for decades to create it and to bring it about. And now, they're getting it.
Good and hard.

I don't know what's going to happen now. Nobody does. The status quo just got broken. Chaos has been chosen over the certainty of corruption.
At least it won't be predictable, at least it won't be boring. And it certainly will, be interesting.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[rushmc 23]

lurch

Who said -I'm- angry? I think it's fucking hilarious. Personally I can't actually support putting somebody that unqualified into office. But I've thoroughly enjoyed the show.

The american people have finally grown so sick of being bought and sold, body and soul by their supposed representatives, that they were willing to break the system, by force, to stop it from having its way with them again. Against the combined might of the political establishment and the mainstream media, they succeeded.

To a political nihilist, this is the most awesome thing ever. Regardless of how stupid a choice Trump is, his election breaks the cycle. At long last I got to see something I never thought I'd see in my lifetime- Both political parties defied, both political parties defeated, frustrated, prevented from getting what they want.
It is the last great act of defiance of the american public. It is the revenge, of the american public against their politicians.
The american public voted Trump in just to force both parties to choke on him. Now we all get to watch them choke. They're choking.

And it has probably prevented World War III. Our political class got away with Iraq. They were narrowly frustrated in their ambition to move on to Iran only because having already spent the treasury dry on their last pet war without bothering to finish it, the public wasn't going to tolerate them charging off to start another.
Hillary never saw a war she didn't like.
This is a woman so amoral that she publicly stated that the incidental deaths of half a million Iraqi children was "Worth it." The political class was trying like hell to sign us up for war with Russia, a war neither side wanted but the politicians couldn't wait to set off. All those profitable weapons contracts!

Now, at least we can be pretty sure we won't be going to war with Russia. The american empire is still going down but maybe now we won't take half the planet with us out of spite. We'll be too busy trying to keep the clown at the helm from doing too much damage domestically.

Like I said much further upstream... the ruling classes have sold idiocy and trash glorified as virtue for decades because the ignorant, poor and desperate are easily manipulated, easily controlled. They never, ever considered that such a control strategy might backfire on them.

But, boy, did it. They wanted it. They worked for decades to create it and to bring it about. And now, they're getting it.
Good and hard.

I don't know what's going to happen now. Nobody does. The status quo just got broken. Chaos has been chosen over the certainty of corruption.
At least it won't be predictable, at least it won't be boring. And it certainly will, be interesting.
-B

Sorry if I missed your point earlier.

Good post!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln