Nah, this would never happen.......it has.

[normiss 800]

I'm curious about the take down techniques that always seem to result in people resisting.
Ever think the leverage points used hurt like a mofo and people can't help but resist?
A cop friend was explaining this to me the other day over a couple of beers.
He thinks it's absolutely hilarious.

[jakee 1,489]

billvon

Quote

It's interesting, I'm not an engineer, and do not feel remotely qualified to comment on things related to that field.

I have a feeling, though, that if cranes started regularly collapsing in your city and killing people, you would begin to have opinions on the skills of the engineers who designed them and set them up - and perhaps even start to think that your city should be more careful in who they let set up cranes. Even though you are not an engineer.

What if everytime a crane fell down the company that owned the crane conducted the only investigation? What if most of those times the company said "Well we've put the site engineer and foreman on paid suspension while we investigate but there doesn't seem to be any indication they've done anything wrong".

What if just one time there was enough public outcry to get a government regulator to conduct an investigation and they said "Well on this one instance the crane falling down was unforeseeable but we've found that this company does have a long history of ignoring safety standards, lax practices, poor engineering and here's the documentation to prove it." And then one guy from that company went onto a web forum and said "That's bullshit, it was just political hatchet job!"

Then most people would want to listen to opinions from outside the construction industry.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[skycop 0]

Quote

I have a feeling, though, that if cranes started regularly collapsing in your city and killing people, you would begin to have opinions on the skills of the engineers who designed them and set them up

If the building being constructed was attacking the cranes, then yes I may comment. Other than that I know zero about cranes, construction, or engineering.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[kallend 2,027]

skycop

Quote

I have a feeling, though, that if cranes started regularly collapsing in your city and killing people, you would begin to have opinions on the skills of the engineers who designed them and set them up

If the building being constructed was attacking the cranes, then yes I may comment. Other than that I know zero about cranes, construction, or engineering.

I think you underestimate yourself. You surely know that cranes are not supposed to collapse and kill people.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

skycop

Quote

I have a feeling, though, that if cranes started regularly collapsing in your city and killing people, you would begin to have opinions on the skills of the engineers who designed them and set them up

If the building being constructed was attacking the cranes, then yes I may comment. Other than that I know zero about cranes, construction, or engineering.

And this attitude is a huge part of the problem.

The way you post, you're a pretty good cop.

But your attitude of "you guys don't know what you are talking about" gets old.

Some of the people on here have some training and experience. Yet you dismiss it.

You also seem to ignore the (many) incidents where the subject was complying, yet still was assaulted by the cop (either physically or with a weapon).

Take for example, the recent one in Miami. You admit that it was wrong and can't defend it. Yet any questioning of other incidents results in the "you don't know what you're talking about."

But, regarding the incident in Miami, the cop is claiming he was aiming at the autistic guy and accidentally hit the caregiver, thinking the truck the autistic guy was holding was a weapon.

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE HEARD THAT STORY???

This time, there was video that clearly showed what really happened. The caregiver was on his back, hands clearly visible. The autistic guy wasn't moving or being a threat.

If there wasn't video, would you believe the guy who was shot? Or the cop? (I know what I believe the answer to be).

In the discussion on the MacDonald shooting in Chicago, someone made a "sorta joke" about the shot placement from the autopsy report. Something to the effect of "it looks like the cop shot him, he fell down and the cop kept on shooting as he rolled around on the ground." Which would be seriously wrong on the cop's part.

Which also turned out to be what happened.

It's reached the point where the cops' stories all sound exactly the same. And there's a lot of video evidence that the stories don't match what really happened. Some by a lot, some by a little.

The shooting in Minnesota is a great example of this.

The cops have gotten away with this for a long, long time.

Fortunately, the explosion of video cameras in everyone's hands is allowing the truth to be known.

And it's not all that good for the cops.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[skycop 0]

Quote

I'm curious about the take down techniques that always seem to result in people resisting.

" 34-year-old Marc LeBeau was observed speeding on SR-202 near Brown Rd., traveling 95 MPH in a 65 MPH zone. A State trooper working radar in the area, initiated a traffic stop on the vehicle LeBeau was driving. LeBeau was slow to pull over; when the vehicle finally stopped, he opened the driver’s door, suspiciously leaned out and reached toward the ground. The trooper cautiously approached LeBeau, advising him of the reason for the stop and told him he was under arrest. While attempting to take LeBeau into custody, he assaulted the trooper by pushing him while refusing to be handcuffed. LeBeau continued to push the officer while complaining the pavement was hot on his bare feet."

This is not on youtube, but is likely on dash/body cam, the DPS wouldn't have issued this statement without reviewing the video. This was 100% preventable and the usual people are internet experting via youtube, it's really that easy.
However, our excessive speeding, impaired driver, decided to physically resist, not a good idea when it's hot and sunny in Arizona.

Once the fight is on, the cop will fight to win, period. I hesitated once, and I ended up with my mouth wired shut for 6 weeks. My jaw is still fucked up to this day.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[normiss 800]

I didn't question actual resisting cases that are open and shut.
You know what I'm asking, come on.

[skycop 0]

Quote

The shooting in Minnesota is a great example of this.

You apparently haven't seen my post on that, or other similar incidents. There are times I shake my head and simply can't understand why an officer would make that decision.

Those guys have all ended up criminally charged, what else would you like?

I also shake my head when a doctor lops off the wrong leg, or a pilot does something stupid and kills people.

I started this thread saying that violent crime would spike with all this anti-police nonsense, it has. And the most vulnerable would suffer, they are.

I also said that all the Freddie Gray guys had a very high chance of walking, they did. Not because they didn't do anything, but because it was so poorly prosecuted for the wrong reasons, the charges wouldn't fly. They didn't.

The Cincinnati case will be very interesting, the prosecutor was smart enough to charge high with murder, but include a lesser included offense. I bet he gets a Manslaugter conviction. In that case I truly believe a young inexperienced officer put himself in a bad position, panicked, and he is going to end up in jail.

We can do this all day, but in the end it's pointless.


There are two things that have happened recently that show the true colors of American policing.

Cops physically protecting people that were protesting against them, while taking casualties, and bullets flying.

The other is when a whack-job threw a fake bomb into an NYPD van. The officers put the van in drive and drove to the least populated area, the whole time thinking the bomb was going to blow them up any second.

If things were truly as bad as some here think, these officers would have said, "fuck these people, I'm outta here". Instead they were willing to get shot or blown up, for people they didn't know.

That transcends race, creed, religion, etc.
It's selflessness in it's truest form.
These were blurbs in the 24 hour news cycle, yet we still see Michael Browns mother on tv, and at a recent political event. It's truly sad.

The cat is starting to chase its' tail, which happens often in SC.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

Hi joe,

Quote

allowing the truth to be known.

I live in Beaverton, Oregon, a suburb of Portland.

Much earlier this year the city announced that the police dep't. was going to get bodycams.

I sent an email to the chief telling him that I supported this as it would help in getting the truth out.

A few months ago, the dep't. announced that they are not going to get bodycams. The reason why: It will be too expensive to store the videos.



Jerry Baumchen

[Stumpy 284]

JerryBaumchen

The reason why: It will be too expensive to store the videos.



And that's bullshit right there. Their IT department needs a kicking.

Jerry Baumchen

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

The Cincinnati case will be very interesting, the prosecutor was smart enough to charge high with murder, but include a lesser included offense. I bet he gets a Manslaugter conviction. In that case I truly believe a young inexperienced officer put himself in a bad position, panicked, and he is going to end up in jail.

He is only charged because there is video. If there isn't video, there would be no charge. We have seen enough cases of cops planting evidence when they thought they weren't on video.

None of this behaviour is new. What is new is the ease at which it is getting taped. It will take some time until cops devise new strategies. It has already started to some degree. Tape getting magically erased. Whole systems getting confiscated etc etc.

And please don't give me the whole few bad apples routine. Seen enough cases of supposed good cops standing around and doing absolutely nothing when some of those bad apples act.

And you were indeed correct. A little push back and cops threw toddler temper tantrums and refused to do their jobs. It all reeks of: leave us alone or we won't do anything and people will die.

[gowlerk 2,192]

Quote

And you were indeed correct. A little push back and cops threw toddler temper tantrums and refused to do their jobs. It all reeks of: leave us alone or we won't do anything and people will die.

Police are like any other employee group in this aspect. They will resist change in general, and strongly resist change that brings increased accountability in particular.

Policing can often be a dirty, gritty , nasty line of work. Highly stressful at times and exposing LEOs to the worse society has to offer. Because we need them, and need to respect them, they have always been given the benefit of the doubt. Some of them take advantage of that, and many of them allow that to happen. I would speculate that most of them turn their heads away and ignore wrong doing because they can never be sure when they will be placed in a similar situation.

We must both respect the job that police do and at the same time demand they only kill people when they need to. Almost all police killings are justified. But clearly almost is not good enough. And clearly the culture of protecting each other before protecting the public has to be changed.

They phrase "protect and serve" too often has meant a culture of protecting and serving each other first and the public second. Every profession is guilty of extending "professional courtesy" to other members of the fraternity. It should come as no surprise to anyone. It starts with LEOs who let their brothers off with a warning at traffic stops. Or allow them to drive home after drinking. I know of one local fatality caused by a drunken off duty cop who could never be convicted because his investigating brother deliberately sabotaged the sobriety testing at the scene to protect him. Even though he had just killed a young mother. Both lost their jobs, but the killer walked.

When accountability comes to policing public confidence will come back as well. Until then it will not.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[kallend 2,027]

Does it ever cross a cop's mind that just maybe they are wrong?

www.propublica.org/article/common-roadside-drug-test-routinely-produces-false-positives

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

Hi John,

Quote

Does it ever cross a cop's mind that just maybe they are wrong?

Hey, don't ask us; ask skycop.

Jerry Baumchen

[ryoder 1,590]

kallend

Does it ever cross a cop's mind that just maybe they are wrong?

www.propublica.org/article/common-roadside-drug-test-routinely-produces-false-positives

And it was apparently use of one of these tests that caused the bogus alert out of Hugo Colorado recently that they had THC in the drinking water.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[turtlespeed 220]

kallend

******
Actual numbers, not guesses:

money.cnn.com/2015/11/06/news/economy/obama-jobs/

Since President Obama took office, the economy has added 8.7 million jobs.

And CNN isn't biased? Riiiiiiiiight.

Tell us an unbiased (in your opinion) source and give us the number it states.

There is none.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[skycop 0]

http://nypost.com/2016/07/31/cops-easing-up-a-bit-because-of-black-lives-matter-author/

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[normiss 800]

[GeorgiaDon 362]

Stop-and-frisk was not stopped because of Black Lives Matter, it was stopped because it is blatantly unconstitutional. No doubt crime could be reduced if the police were free to ignore details like probable cause, freedom of speech, freedom of association, the need for warrants, etc. Of course, we would then be living in a police state. Would that be an improvement? I'm sure it would.... for the police!

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[kallend 2,027]

turtlespeed

*********
Actual numbers, not guesses:

money.cnn.com/2015/11/06/news/economy/obama-jobs/

Since President Obama took office, the economy has added 8.7 million jobs.

And CNN isn't biased? Riiiiiiiiight.

Tell us an unbiased (in your opinion) source and give us the number it states.

There is none.

Translation, turtle can't find any source that supports his preconceived opinion.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[skycop 0]

Quote

Stop-and-frisk was not stopped because of Black Lives Matter, it was stopped because it is blatantly unconstitutional.

It was never stopped, just curtailed. It's continued throughout the country, in one form or another. Look up Terry vs. Ohio.

NYPD took an aggressive stance for almost a decade, there was push-back prior to the BLM stuff. Crime rates dropped dramatically, now they are spiking.

I believe "stop and frisk" done as aggressively as NYPD was doing it, works in the short term, but can be counter-productive in the long term. I feel the same about aggressive traffic enforcement, with the exception of areas where there are an inordinate amount of injury and fatality accidents. The difference being there is an actual violation of the traffic code/law, rather than reasonable suspicion.

No one is asking for a police state, but proactive enforcement reduces crime. I had one of my Terry cases go to a high appellate level and was upheld. It's a great tool when used judiciously and properly. Freddie Gray was an example of a Terry Stop well within reasonable suspicion, the prosecutor knew that, but stated differently in the politically charged environment she created. It's one of the reasons she lost all the cases.

The false narratives and moral relativism of the 24 hour news cycle keeps feeding this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/01/sometimes-it-takes-an-outsider-to-crystallize-americas-enduring-racism/

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[normiss 800]

You just gotta love the NY Post sometimes.

***NSFW*** (yet was ok to print and sell publicly)

[skycop 0]

I'd love to have a smokin' hot first lady, it's the Donald that's the problem.
I wouldn't be ashamed of that either............

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[normiss 800]

Moar nekkid almost first 'lady'

You might not be, but as a nation, I think we should be.

[skycop 0]

She was a model in Europe, that's kind of what they do.
The images weren't pornographic, it's really a non-story.

And yes, if some other first lady's nude photos came out (EEEEKKK, can't think of one I'd like to see), I'd say the same thing, unless it was a scene with Ron Jeremy or something.......

I'm not a Trump fan BTW.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"