Is America finally ready to talk about guns?

[billvon 2,991]

>And still 30k-ish die every year. We could probably cut that in half by adopting the
>German standards of training and licensing. We could cut again by at least half if we
>restricted driving to only essential, approved trips. I have never heard anyone suggest
>such restrictive and burdensome ideas.

Agreed. We have already cut it by a factor of 22 by far less restrictive measures; that approach is working.

>I have not heard a single suggestion that would have a large impact on firearm
>fatalities with minimal restrictions on the 2nd amendment.

Nor has any car manufacturer heard a single suggestion that would not bankrupt them, or force everyone into deathtrap econoboxes, or result in people driving underpowered golf carts, or make cars unaffordable. All those excuses have been used (by car companies) to oppose every "useless" change from lower emissions requirements, to seat belts and air bags, to the CHMSL, to fuel economy requirements, to crash safety standards, the formation of the NHTSA.

And yet here we are. 22 times safer, driving cheaper, more efficient, more powerful cars than ever before - even with all those useless, expensive changes with zero benefits. At least according to car manufacturers.

[kallend 2,026]

The US has more guns per capita than any other developed nation. The USA also has the highest gun murder rate of any first world nation.

So HOW COME all those good guys with guns aren't stopping the bad guys like the NRA says they will? Was Wayne LaPierre just lying in order to promote the NRA's sponsors (the gun manufacturers).

Could it be that the NRA has sold us a bill of goods?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Stumpy 284]

tkhayes

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Why do so many people feel the need to own military type long guns?

Mostly penis size, because there is no other valid explanation. 'fighting the corrupt government' is pretty lame, no one has done that since the Civil War, nor has there been a threat that rises to that level.

Pretty sure thats what those clowns in Malheur thought they were doing. Didn't work out so well for them.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[RonD1120 62]

kallend

The US has more guns per capita than any other developed nation. The USA also has the highest gun murder rate of any first world nation.

So HOW COME all those good guys with guns aren't stopping the bad guys like the NRA says they will? Was Wayne LaPierre just lying in order to promote the NRA's sponsors (the gun manufacturers).

Could it be that the NRA has sold us a bill of goods?

Could it be that us good guys with guns don't frequent these gun free venues that the bad guys seek out? The bad guys aren't coming into my area. At least not yet.

I spent the afternoon with several members of my tribe. We are going to protect our area. We were at a sporting goods store in Asheville, NC. People were buying ammo literally by the case. There is no trust only survival mentality.

Georgia Gun Owners announced this morning that GA now has an agreement of reciprocity with SC regarding concealed carry. Looks like SC is seeking to make GA an ally.

The thinking is that it is going to get real bad before 8 November. People are preparing for the worst and planning to make a stand. I was in a military surplus store in Blue Ridge, GA last Friday. There was talk of defending that mountain area against scavengers coming out of Atlanta.

The only people willing to discuss disarmament are those who do not have weapons.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rifleman 70]

As a Brit with no dog in this hunt, can I ask a question? What was the original wording in the US Constitution that required an amendment and why, if the founding fathers saw fit to make an amendment is it so hard for modern day Americans to make changes to the same document?

Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation

[gowlerk 2,190]

You have finally convinced me. You are going to vote for trump, right? I hope you don't need to shoot too many scavengers to drive them off. Will you fire from a distance to warn them? Or wait till they get a little closer so you can kill a couple as an example?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[normiss 798]

No one has claimed otherwise.
Honestly, what is the risk of suddenly being attacked by 105+/- gay people?

[normiss 798]

LOL
Delusional. Totally delusional.

[Coreeece 2]

normiss

The goal should be an effort to reduce senseless mass murder.
Why are you defending mass murder?

See, this is exactly the type of logic (or lack thereof) that I would expect from a person that can't tell the difference between an Islamic terrorist, Christianity, and some elderly nutcase with bad aim.

You've already equated Christianity to the virulence of Islamic terrorism - that we are the ones that should lose our 2nd amendment rights - so no, apparently you're not ready to talk about guns on any level conducive to an adult conversation free of emotional flare. . .

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[jtiflyer 0]

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Mostly penis size, because there is no other valid explanation. 'fighting the corrupt government' is pretty lame, no one has done that since the Civil War, nor has there been a threat that rises to that level.

It is penis size, ego, stubbornness and ineptitude to be able to understand basic statistical evidence.

history is often forgotten so here ya go https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)

[jtiflyer 0]

SkyDekker

You could start by looking at and learning from the rest of the Western World, where mass shootings are far less prevalent. It isn't like having less than 7 mass shootings in a week is impossible.

curious what is defined as a "mass shooting"?

Removing suicide by firearms, criminal on criminal murder by firearm how many murders or violent crimes are committed by firearms? How does that compare to the numbers of times a firearm has been used in self defense per year (which is hard to record due to not all instances being recorded)?

[tonyhays 86]

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Removing suicide by firearms, criminal on criminal murder by firearm how many murders or violent crimes are committed by firearms? How does that compare to the numbers of times a firearm has been used in self defense per year (which is hard to record due to not all instances being recorded)?

Why exclude any of those? How about just look at total gun deaths per year. In 2014 the U.S. had 33,599 gun related deaths.

There's been a popular "occupy democrats" video floating around FB about how the countries of Australia, GB, France, Germany, Japan, Denmark, Switzerland, & Sweden combined have roughly the same population but far fewer gun deaths. I did the math (based on stats from gunpolicy.org) and found those 8 countries had a combined total gun deaths of 3,533. Roughly 1/10th of what the U.S. has yearly.

It's definitely time for a conversation, but it won't result in anything happening.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[tkhayes 348]

What that guy said as well ^^^

Why do we come up with excuses to remove gun deaths from the count like they are not actually gun deaths....?

There are so few car accidents, I mean if you take out the ones that were not wearing seatbelts, or happened in bad weather, or were caused by distracted driving, or the ones where the car was white, black, red or blue....etc. Almost no car accidents....therefore cars are safe and we do not need to do anything about it.

[RonD1120 62]

Typical from you, dismissal of anyone not agreeing with you. I reported actual events and you label the incidents as conjecture. I believe you proved my point. You are not interested in discussion.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[mirage62 0]

I think this is a good point.

"Why remove any gun deaths"

Because when you separate the deaths you can see that a thug killing a thug is a large percentage. That a cop killing a thug, a person legitimently defending themselves is a percentage and other use of firearms that is a legitiment use then number of accidental killings, mass shootings becomes much smaller. "30,0000 killed by guns" just sounds better for gun control.

Suicide by gun is terrible, untrained gun owners, people that don't secure their weapons - all need addressing.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[kallend 2,026]

mirage62

I think this is a good point.

"Why remove any gun deaths"

Because when you separate the deaths you can see that a thug killing a thug is a large percentage. That a cop killing a thug, a person legitimently defending themselves is a percentage and other use of firearms that is a legitiment use then number of accidental killings, mass shootings becomes much smaller. "30,0000 killed by guns" just sounds better for gun control.

Suicide by gun is terrible, untrained gun owners, people that don't secure their weapons - all need addressing.

Other countries have thugs and cops too. Yet the US is the outlier by far in gun deaths per capita among 1st world nations.

To get a ride to altitude for a skydive you need to show the DZ that you've been properly trained.

To get a scuba tank filled you need to show the dive shop that you have appropriate certification.

Yet you can buy an AR15 and enough ammo to kill a roomful of people in a minute with hardly a question asked.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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To get a ride to altitude for a skydive you need to show the DZ that you've been properly trained.

To get a scuba tank filled you need to show the dive shop that you have appropriate certification.

Yet you can buy an AR15 and enough ammo to kill a roomful of people in a minute with hardly a question asked.

1 of these 3 things is a constitutionally protected right.

Derek V

[mr2mk1g 10]

Hooknswoop

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To get a ride to altitude for a skydive you need to show the DZ that you've been properly trained.

To get a scuba tank filled you need to show the dive shop that you have appropriate certification.

Yet you can buy an AR15 and enough ammo to kill a roomful of people in a minute with hardly a question asked.

1 of these 3 things is a constitutionally protected right.

Derek V

It's easy to bust out that old trope. The key question is though - should it be, and if so, on what terms?

Slave ownership was only abolished by the 13th - you are allowed to amend the thing you know. The issue of gun ownership isn't some magic talisman which is beyond all reproach just because it's protected by the constitution - it's it's constitutional protection which is fundamentally at the heart of the issue.

It's also why nothing much is going to change in the near future because of the level of division within the US social and political system - not enough of a consensus and too much vested interest to get anything to change.

[kallend 2,026]

Hooknswoop

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To get a ride to altitude for a skydive you need to show the DZ that you've been properly trained.

To get a scuba tank filled you need to show the dive shop that you have appropriate certification.

Yet you can buy an AR15 and enough ammo to kill a roomful of people in a minute with hardly a question asked.

1 of these 3 things is a constitutionally protected right.

Derek V

[YAWN] When logic fails you, resort to the ideals of long dead white male slave owners.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,026]

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Is America finally ready to talk about guns?

I doubt it.

1. If killing little children at Sandy Hook didn't manage to change anything, why should shooting up a gay bar?

2. Too many macho guys have a penis fixation with their AR15s.

3. The NRA's lie machine is well oiled and well funded by the firearms industry.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 798]

As a life long gun supporter and owner, I'm pissed.
It's time to address this.

[wayneflorida 0]

rifleman

As a Brit with no dog in this hunt, can I ask a question? What was the original wording in the US Constitution that required an amendment and why, if the founding fathers saw fit to make an amendment is it so hard for modern day Americans to make changes to the same document?

This might help https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights

If you read this and somewhat understand the passage of the Bill of Rights you my friend will have more knowledge of the US Constitution than 80% of the citizens of this country.

[mirage62 0]

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Other countries have thugs and cops too. Yet the US is the outlier by far in gun deaths per capita among 1st world nations.

Basically I agree more training, make it EASY to take someone's guns but a blanket deal making a lot harder for me to get a gun is backwards.

You want to really lower gun deaths - legalize drugs.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[kallend 2,026]

mirage62

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Other countries have thugs and cops too. Yet the US is the outlier by far in gun deaths per capita among 1st world nations.

Basically I agree more training, make it EASY to take someone's guns but a blanket deal making a lot harder for me to get a gun is backwards.

You want to really lower gun deaths - legalize drugs.

Agreed on that.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,991]

>Removing suicide by firearms, criminal on criminal murder by firearm how many
>murders or violent crimes are committed by firearms?

Not a lot.

Gun advocates like to compare the risks of cars to the risks of guns. So now let's compare that to the stats on driving deaths, once you remove all the drivers who have just killed themselves or their passengers through criminal acts - recklessness/speeding/texting/intoxication/running lights/wrong way driving. After you remove them, how many of the fatalities remaining are murders or violent crimes committed via cars? That answer will tell you which is the bigger problem.