Charlotte NC protests

[gowlerk 2,216]

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Your other premise is that these sort of restrictions produce a large reduction in the risk of being shot.

America has a rate of death from bullets that is approximately five times as high as in Canada. You figure out why.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[gowlerk 2,216]

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We don't have a society that is free of risk. My wife sleeps more soundly (and at all) because she knows we have a defensive means beyond hoping that the alarm will result in the police showing up 15 minutes later in time to assist.

My wife on the other hand sleeps soundly, even when I am not home and she is alone in the the house, with a complete lack of firearms of any kind in the house. How is she able to do so without fear of armed intruders? We live in a city, we don't have special security, we are not in a gated community. We do have an alarm system, but have not armed it for years because of false alarms.

The answer is simple, it does not even occur to us that armed intruders may invade. It is nearly unthinkable. The criminals here do not have guns. The police do not assume that everyone they deal with is armed. I haven't had to teach my children to never let their hands out of the policeman's sight if they are pulled over. All because I do not live in a country over run by weapons of war. Can you even imagine living like that?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[kelpdiver 2]

gowlerk

My wife on the other hand sleeps soundly, even when I am not home and she is alone in the the house, with a complete lack of firearms of any kind in the house. How is she able to do so without fear of armed intruders? We live in a city, we don't have special security, we are not in a gated community. We do have an alarm system, but have not armed it for years because of false alarms.

A) lower crime rates
B) Blissful ignorance
C) both?

Having been victimized, my wife will take whatever actions she can to reduce chances of a repeat. Nice of you to want to dictate her options to 1- buy dog or 2- call 911. But we are now talking about the difference between citizens and subjects.

That said....
"If Canada were included as part of the 31 countries that make up the wider European region, it would rank fourth in terms of gun-homicide rates. In terms of sheer numbers, only France, Germany and Italy have more gun deaths a year. Suddenly it seems as if Canada isn’t the haven of peace and gun harmony that people might think. And this is just homicides we’re talking about."

Goes on to talk about the very high (by global standards) rates of gun related suicide in Canada.

But I've said many times - why does it matter if a person gets killed or kills themselves with a gun versus another matter. Dead is dead. And for intentional homicides, Canada's rate of 1.4 is substantially closer to the USA's 3.9 than if you only measured for gun related murders. If you compared for similar demographics (ie, caucasions), the delta pretty much vanishes away.

But in your mind...if we had to lock up our handguns, all this would go away.

[billvon 3,008]

>But I've said many times - why does it matter if a person gets killed or kills
>themselves with a gun versus another matter. Dead is dead.

Exactly. And alive is very different than dead. And because there is a very big difference between the two, there is a lot of interest in reducing the ~30,000 incidents every year here in the US where a gun is involved in moving people from the "living" category into the "dead" category.

[gowlerk 2,216]

Guns were invented for killing people. That's what they do. And people being people will use what they have at hand when they have a problem. It's that simple. If you sleep with a weapon nearby that is the weapon that is by far the most likely one to kill your wife. Or you for that matter.

If I were to decide to sleep with a weapon by my side my wife would most likely move to another home. So she could sleep.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Coreeece 2]

billvon

there is a lot of interest in reducing the ~30,000 incidents every year here in the US where a gun is involved in moving people from the "living" category into the "dead" category.

...and a good place to start limiting those 20,000+ suicides is with better parenting, and reducing depression - and the psychotropic drugs used to treat it in a dangerously capitalistic society.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[skycop 0]

This is why a guy holding a gun is an imminent danger, these were tactical guys, with rifles, and they had the advantage.
The bad guy does not drop the weapon, the officers hesitate, the bad guy reacts and fires. The results, two officers shot before the bad guy goes down.
This isn't a fucking game, the situation in Charlotte could have ended this way, it didn't.

http://www.policeone.com/police-products/body-cameras/articles/227108006-Video-Ariz-police-released-footage-of-fatal-OIS/

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[gowlerk 2,216]

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This isn't a fucking game, the situation in Charlotte could have ended this way, it didn't.

I did not watch that clip. I'll take your word for it. And I agree, it is not a game. There are multiple issues in here. At the heart is America has too many guns. The situation was different in AZ, they were executing a search warrant to look for stolen weapons. Not a random guy in a broken down car. And I did hear that the guy they hesitated to shoot had pink colored skin. Sometimes it's hard to believe a guy who looks like that is a dangerous as a darker fellow.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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BTW, in the first one, the citation comes from the article I responded to - no need to provide anything additional

What about all the other ones?

You stand front of the line demanding proof when it suits you and then become very dismissive when it is asked of you. Trump supporter, plain hypocrite or just making up shit?

[rushmc 23]

gowlerk

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This isn't a fucking game, the situation in Charlotte could have ended this way, it didn't.

I did not watch that clip. I'll take your word for it. And I agree, it is not a game. There are multiple issues in here. At the heart is America has too many guns. The situation was different in AZ, they were executing a search warrant to look for stolen weapons. Not a random guy in a broken down car. And I did hear that the guy they hesitated to shoot had pink colored skin. Sometimes it's hard to believe a guy who looks like that is a dangerous as a darker fellow.

Too many guns?

Another bad joke on your part...

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[gowlerk 2,216]

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Too many guns?

Another bad joke on your part...

Sigh......you again? Do you have something to contribute for a change? Or just your regular chirping at the edges?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[mirage62 0]

Quote

That said....
"If Canada were included as part of the 31 countries that make up the wider European region, it would rank fourth in terms of gun-homicide rates. In terms of sheer numbers, only France, Germany and Italy have more gun deaths a year. Suddenly it seems as if Canada isn’t the haven of peace and gun harmony that people might think. And this is just homicides we’re talking about."

Wow I didn't know this (true?) Everytime you talk to a our Canadian brothers who are anti gun you'd think they were the top of the heap when it comes to this. Interesting.

I don't have a problem with gun laws, we have plenty of them. Enforcing them might be a good idea.

Nut cases on both sides drive me nuts.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[pchapman 279]

kelpdiver

That said....
"If Canada were included as part of the 31 countries that make up the wider European region, it would rank fourth in terms of gun-homicide rates.

What was the source? I'd like to check out the details further. Sorry if I missed it somewhere, even doing a quick search on the thread.

Even if Canada isn't a haven of peace and harmony, we're not quite so worried about whether the Danish are better than us for gun violence (I'm sure they are; good for them). We're more worried about the mess to the south of us; as whatever happens in the US has some influence on us. Probably also a major source of illegal guns in Canada. No easy answers when a country is that awash in guns, whether used legally or not.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Probably also a major source of illegal guns in Canada. No easy answers when a country is that awash in guns, whether used legally or not.

Yup, the easy availability south of us increases availability north of the border.

[winsor 236]

SkyDekker

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Probably also a major source of illegal guns in Canada. No easy answers when a country is that awash in guns, whether used legally or not.

Yup, the easy availability south of us increases availability north of the border.

People I know who have firearm collections tend to have them in VERY SERIOUS safes - some of which would make a banker envious.

FWIW, what I recommend keeping by the bed is an insanely powerful flashlight. That way you only have to deal with someone who is pissed off for being temporarily blinded if you use it against someone who has no sinister purpose.

You also don't need earplugs.


BSBD,

Winsor

[christelsabine 1]

kelpdiver

***
My wife on the other hand sleeps soundly, even when I am not home and she is alone in the the house, with a complete lack of firearms of any kind in the house. How is she able to do so without fear of armed intruders? We live in a city, we don't have special security, we are not in a gated community. We do have an alarm system, but have not armed it for years because of false alarms.

A) lower crime rates
B) Blissful ignorance
C) both?

Having been victimized, my wife will take whatever actions she can to reduce chances of a repeat. Nice of you to want to dictate her options to 1- buy dog or 2- call 911. But we are now talking about the difference between citizens and subjects.

That said....
"If Canada were included as part of the 31 countries that make up the wider European region, it would rank fourth in terms of gun-homicide rates. In terms of sheer numbers, only France, Germany and Italy have more gun deaths a year. Suddenly it seems as if Canada isn’t the haven of peace and gun harmony that people might think. And this is just homicides we’re talking about."

Goes on to talk about the very high (by global standards) rates of gun related suicide in Canada.

But I've said many times - why does it matter if a person gets killed or kills themselves with a gun versus another matter. Dead is dead. And for intentional homicides, Canada's rate of 1.4 is substantially closer to the USA's 3.9 than if you only measured for gun related murders. If you compared for similar demographics (ie, caucasions), the delta pretty much vanishes away.


Have a look here:

http://www.humanosphere.org/science/2016/06/visualizing-gun-deaths-comparing-u-s-rest-world/

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[rushmc 23]

gowlerk

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Too many guns?

Another bad joke on your part...

Sigh......you again? Do you have something to contribute for a change? Or just your regular chirping at the edges?

Yeah, I know you don't like being challenged. He can't handle a debate of ideas. Anyway, if guns were the real issue, then the 17th straight month of record gun sales would be showing something in the crime statistics. Which they're not

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,008]

>Anyway, if guns were the real issue, then the 17th straight month of record gun
>sales would be showing something in the crime statistics. Which they're not

===============
Rising gun violence fuels crime surges in many cities, FBI says
Kevin Johnson and Aamer Madhani
USA TODAY 6:08 p.m. EDT September 26, 2016

WASHINGTON — Overall violent crime in the U.S. increased by nearly 4% last year, the FBI reported Monday, as several major cities struggled to deal with rising gun violence.

The FBI’s annual crime report found that murder was up 12.8% in cities, driving the overall increase. Property-related crime, however, dropped by 2.6%.
==============

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Yeah, I know you don't like being challenged. He can't handle a debate of ideas.

Except you didn't offer any ideas. Just your usual one liner comment.

Quote

Anyway, if guns were the real issue, then the 17th straight month of record gun sales would be showing something in the crime statistics.

No, that is simply not true. That would assume some unending linear correlation. Nobody is claiming that.

If a million gallons of rain causes the flooding of 1,000 homes and then an additional 2,000 gallons doesn't cause any further houses to flood, one cannot claim that rain water had nothing to do with flooding.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>Anyway, if guns were the real issue, then the 17th straight month of record gun
>sales would be showing something in the crime statistics. Which they're not

===============
Rising gun violence fuels crime surges in many cities, FBI says
Kevin Johnson and Aamer Madhani
USA TODAY 6:08 p.m. EDT September 26, 2016

WASHINGTON — Overall violent crime in the U.S. increased by nearly 4% last year, the FBI reported Monday, as several major cities struggled to deal with rising gun violence.

The FBI’s annual crime report found that murder was up 12.8% in cities, driving the overall increase. Property-related crime, however, dropped by 2.6%.
==============

What's your point bill? That's been talked about on this site before and is nothing new. Violence is up a little bit yes that. It's a cycle just like everything else is. But we're not seeing the percentage of increase of violence based on the number of guns that are being purchased and that are already existing in this country. One cares to look close enough at that you also see that most of that is in inercity poor areas. Lot of it is gang-related as well. But it's easier just to pull up the whole statistic and throw it out there is like it means something I know I know

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,008]

>What's your point bill?

You said that if guns were the real issue, then record gun sales would show up as an increase in crime stats. You claimed there was no increase in crime. I demonstrated that you were wrong; there is an increase.

So yes, record gun sales are "showing up" as gun violence.

>But it's easier just to pull up the whole statistic and throw it out there is like it
>means something I know I know

So when you post a false statistic it proves your point.
When I post the real numbers it's meaningless.

Good old RushMC.

[Bolas 5]

gowlerk

Guns were invented for killing people. That's what they do. And people being people will use what they have at hand when they have a problem. It's that simple. If you sleep with a weapon nearby that is the weapon that is by far the most likely one to kill your wife. Or you for that matter.

So you admit it's the behavior, not the tool.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[gowlerk 2,216]

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So you admit it's the behavior, not the tool.

Absolutely. Guns do not kill people. People kill people. That's why the answer is to keeps guns out of the hands of.....people. Same as we keep bombs out of the hands of people. Bombs are just tools too.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[normiss 806]

That must be why people are charged for crimes instead of the objects they use to commit the crimes.

It's just silly how many items require training, licensing, registration, restrictions, insurance, and limitations with no resistance in the least, yet not weapons.

[kelpdiver 2]

SkyDekker

Trump supporter, plain hypocrite or just making up shit?

It's amazing how you manage to show all 3 in most of your postings, though in this one you're focusing on shit shoveling.

I'm sorry your thin skin couldn't handle being called out for citing hearsay as fact.