Charlotte NC protests

[kelpdiver 2]

SkyDekker

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I cannot confirm this - please cite.

My aunt is a police officer in The Netherlands.

And my uncle is the Messiah.

Sheesh - in the last year, did everyone forget what citation means? All over I see people put up uncited 'facts' to make assertions.

And if you think its stupid, then why did you attempt to make an argument based on it?

[kelpdiver 2]

normiss

Here's yet another daily dose:
Autistic kid murdered, deadly weapon my ass. That cop bailed out of his car and simply started shooting until his weapon was empty. 18 shots. Within 30 seconds.

Good thing this is so rare I suppose.

Why shy from the more salient part of this article? The officers are being prosecuted for 2nd degree murder, not even manslaughter. And BTW, the boy's autism seems irrelevant. It had no bearing on the events.

"Charged with second-degree murder and second-degree attempted murder, Greenhouse and Stafford await separate trials for shooting a man with his hands in the air and murdering his autistic son.
Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/judge-releases-video-cops-killing-autistic-boy/#ZjFg9PIF3sKujfj7.99"

[GeorgiaDon 362]

Quote

Let's see:

"We decided to pull him over because of outstanding warrants"

Except he didn't have any.

"He rammed our car with his"

Except there was no damage.

"We were in fear for our lives because he had used his car as a weapon"

Except he was out of his car with his hands raised.

And it took SEVEN MINUTES to check the kid in the car.

And the cops wonder why people don't trust them.

HOW LONG have they gotten away with this sort of thing?
How many of the "justified" shootings in the past were no different that this one?
Except for the video evidence which has become so very common.

Protect and serve my ass.

It's even more ugly than that. One of the cops who has been charged had been hitting on Few's fiance (Few is the guy who was being chased, the father of the kid who was killed). Few had told the cop to screw off and leave his fiance alone. Link here. This really looks like an attempted execution, with the kid as collateral damage.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[billvon 3,008]

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This really looks like an attempted execution, with the kid as collateral damage.

Also an argument for the value of body cameras. The officers involved were not able to use the "he reached for something" or "I thought I saw a gun" defenses due to the evidence from the camera.

[Bolas 5]

This is the sort of thing people should be protesting over if they think there's a police violence issue.

But wait, he and his son are white and the officers are being charged so doesn't fit the narrative.

Sure there are people that think the only reason the officers are being charged is because the victims were white.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[gowlerk 2,216]

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And Kallend, I'm interested to hear what legislation might have prevented this alleged gun transfer

John may have a different answer. Mine is that stronger laws like in Canada would require the storing of the handgun in a gun safe. It would not be so easily available to the burglar.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[millertime24 8]

gowlerk

Quote

And Kallend, I'm interested to hear what legislation might have prevented this alleged gun transfer

John may have a different answer. Mine is that stronger laws like in Canada would require the storing of the handgun in a gun safe. It would not be so easily available to the burglar.

Please describe "gun safe". How big does it need to be? How much must it weigh? What are the methods, per law, of mounting said safe? For example, would I be obeying the law if I stored a handgun in a safe that could easily be carried out of my home by an individual who doesn't give a shit about the law?

Muff #5048

[christelsabine 1]

gowlerk

Quote

And Kallend, I'm interested to hear what legislation might have prevented this alleged gun transfer

John may have a different answer. Mine is that stronger laws like in Canada would require the storing of the handgun in a gun safe. It would not be so easily available to the burglar.

Exactly this. Last year, I moved to another house. Few weeks later I received a letter of local police asking me to provide evidence of burglarproof storage of weapons, f. e. invoice for a built-in safe. Otherwise, police would've visited me personally to check situation.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[billvon 3,008]

>How big does it need to be?

Big enough to hold the weapon.

>How much must it weigh?

Whatever it weighs.

>What are the methods, per law, of mounting said safe?

Mounting such that it cannot be carried away by a thief without specialized tools.

It's really pretty simple. Millions of people figure out the laws pertaining to car seats for kids; I find it hard to believe that gun owners are significantly dumber than parents.

[kelpdiver 2]

christelsabine

Exactly this. Last year, I moved to another house. Few weeks later I received a letter of local police asking me to provide evidence of burglarproof storage of weapons, f. e. invoice for a built-in safe. Otherwise, police would've visited me personally to check situation.

there is no such thing as "burglarproof," particularly without spending 5-10k $ and installing something that weighs in excess of a ton. All these safes buy you is time, just as they do with their fireproofing. Most of the safes approved by the California DoJ for storage requirements can be cut into in a couple minutes, using common tools. Smaller ones (< 500 lbs) can just be carried away, particularly for renters who cannot drill into the floor.

Blaming the victim with no actual knowledge of the event is akin to blaming the truck owner in Nice for all those dead people. IF the dead man did in fact buy this stolen .380, he is the only person to blame here. It really shouldn't be necessary to say this, and if the facts do land here, how soon will all of you apologize to the cops you vilified?

[christelsabine 1]

kelpdiver

***

there is no such thing as "burglarproof," particularly without spending 5-10k $ and installing something that weighs in excess of a ton. All these safes buy you is time, just as they do with their fireproofing. Most of the safes approved by the California DoJ for storage requirements can be cut into in a couple minutes, using common tools. Smaller ones (
Blaming the victim with no actual knowledge of the event is akin to blaming the truck owner in Nice for all those dead people. IF the dead man did in fact buy this stolen .380, he is the only person to blame here. It really shouldn't be necessary to say this, and if the facts do land here, how soon will all of you apologize to the cops you vilified?

Nobody's talking about a Fort Knox safe, built-in deep down in their chambers. And I am not talking about regulations of California DoJ, which are surely not applied here.

As most people know, the average intruder is not coming into the house with a high-technology equipment or blow torch trying to open a safe in the cellar within the next 3 hrs. He's breaking in, trying to grab whatever looks sellable and escaping. It takes a while to break a built-in safe. ... and for a single intruder, it might be hard work to carry away a safe of 250 kg.

And for the rest of your post:

Which victim did I blame of what??
I don't know what you mean, which dead man is buying a stolen automatic pistol?? And why should I apologize to any cop??

Perhaps, you were a bit swiftly with your post?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[kelpdiver 2]

christelsabine

Nobody's talking about a Fort Knox safe, built-in deep down in their chambers. And I am not talking about regulations of California DoJ, which are surely not applied here.

As most people know, the average intruder is not coming into the house with a high-technology equipment or blow torch trying to open a safe in the cellar within the next 3 hrs. He's breaking in, trying to grab whatever looks sellable and escaping. It takes a while to break a built-in safe. ... and for a single intruder, it might be hard work to carry away a safe of 250 kg.

And for the rest of your post:

Which victim did I blame of what??
I don't know what you mean, which dead man is buying a stolen automatic pistol?? And why should I apologize to any cop??

Perhaps, you were a bit swiftly with your post?

You chimed in to a response that very clearly blamed the homeowner for allowing his gun to be stolen and then (allegedly) sold to the man that was shot in Charlotte. So that groups you in with golerk, and it's quite fair to hold you accountable for it.

It doesn't take high tech equipment to break a 6' safe, particularly if it's not bolted down to the floor. A crowbar, a hacket, a sledgehammer, or a number of cutting tools common to the garage. 1/4" steel is a premium choice costing $2000 or more. Most are thinner. And no, it doesn't take 3 hours - it's at most 10-20 minutes. And if the homeowner wants a handgun accessible in the bedroom, but still locked, it will be a much smaller box. How much is too heavy? Harley motorcycles weigh ~700lbs (300kg) and routinely two big guys defeat wheel locks by just dead lifting the whole bike onto a sling or flat bed.

[skycop 0]

http://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/226248006-Police-release-video-of-fatal-Calif-OIS/

The aforementioned shit sandwich, do not follow instructions, continually move and reach into your pockets, then draw a cylindrical metallic object from your pocket and point it at armed officers, and then everyone takes a bite.

A lose/lose, but for the keyboard warriors it's all easy 20/20 hindsight.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[SkyDekker 1,465]

kelpdiver

***

Quote

I cannot confirm this - please cite.

My aunt is a police officer in The Netherlands.

And my uncle is the Messiah.

Sheesh - in the last year, did everyone forget what citation means? All over I see people put up uncited 'facts' to make assertions.

And if you think its stupid, then why did you attempt to make an argument based on it?

I wasn't making an argument, I was having a conversation. You must be real fun at a party, demanding proof as part of every conversation.

I can't offer you proof, just let you know where I got the information. You can do with it what you want. I am not offended either way.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

It had no bearing on the events.

Please cite. If based on your own opinions, provide proof of your qualifications.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

there is no such thing as "burglarproof,"

Cite?

Quote

Most of the safes approved by the California DoJ for storage requirements can be cut into in a couple minutes, using common tools.

Cite?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

It doesn't take high tech equipment to break a 6' safe, particularly if it's not bolted down to the floor.

Cite?

Define "high tech equipment".

Quote

And no, it doesn't take 3 hours - it's at most 10-20 minutes.

Cite?

Quote

routinely two big guys defeat wheel locks by just dead lifting the whole bike onto a sling or flat bed.

Cite?

Define "routinely".

[SkyDekker 1,465]

in the last year, did everyone forget what citation means? All over I see people put up uncited 'facts' to make assertions.

[gowlerk 2,216]

kelpdiver

***
Exactly this. Last year, I moved to another house. Few weeks later I received a letter of local police asking me to provide evidence of burglarproof storage of weapons, f. e. invoice for a built-in safe. Otherwise, police would've visited me personally to check situation.

there is no such thing as "burglarproof," particularly without spending 5-10k $ and installing something that weighs in excess of a ton. All these safes buy you is time, just as they do with their fireproofing. Most of the safes approved by the California DoJ for storage requirements can be cut into in a couple minutes, using common tools. Smaller ones (< 500 lbs) can just be carried away, particularly for renters who cannot drill into the floor.

Blaming the victim with no actual knowledge of the event is akin to blaming the truck owner in Nice for all those dead people. IF the dead man did in fact buy this stolen .380, he is the only person to blame here. It really shouldn't be necessary to say this, and if the facts do land here, how soon will all of you apologize to the cops you vilified?


No one ever said guns must be theft proofed. Secure storage increases safety. Mostly by making them less accessible to people in the house. (Especially family members).

This link explains Canadian transport and storage laws.

http://firearmslaw.ca/gun-law-resources/firearms-storage-transportation/

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

in the last year, did everyone forget what citation means? All over I see people put up uncited 'facts' to make assertions.

Ask Bill for his.........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

SkyDekker

I wasn't making an argument, I was having a conversation. You must be real fun at a party, demanding proof as part of every conversation.

This is why this forum would be better if you could ignore individual users.

You made up shit to try to score points in an argument. "My aunt sezs...."

And now you're spamming the thread with 'cite please' diarrhea that really should be called out by moderators as it adds nothing to the discussion. (BTW, in the first one, the citation comes from the article I responded to - no need to provide anything additional).

[kelpdiver 2]

gowlerk

No one ever said guns must be theft proofed. Secure storage increases safety. Mostly by making them less accessible to people in the house. (Especially family members).

The entire point of guns for self defense is a bit lost if you make it as difficult as possible for family members to access them.

In post 106 - you blame the home owner for this gun being made available for an illegal sale to a felon, though given how little is known, it's unlikely you knew anything of the circumstances of the burglary. Would hardening here reduce one source of guns for black market sales? Certainly, with some costs. Will reducing that source change the actual level of sales? Far less certain....so long as we can't stop the import of billions of dollars in guns, how would we stop the import of other illicit goods?

[gowlerk 2,216]

Quote

The entire point of guns for self defense is a bit lost if you make it as difficult as possible for family members to access them.

When you live in a society that is not over run with weapons, you can sleep soundly at night without a loaded firearm on your night stand. Which means your toddler will not use it to shoot his sister, and your depressed teenage son will not have it nearby when he feels suicidal. That is the whole point of gun control. You give you the right to treat guns as toys, and in exchange you get a large reduction in the likelihood of being shot.

It's a bargain I'm glad of, but many Americans don't see the benefit of.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[kelpdiver 2]

gowlerk

Quote

The entire point of guns for self defense is a bit lost if you make it as difficult as possible for family members to access them.

When you live in a society that is not over run with weapons, you can sleep soundly at night without a loaded firearm on your night stand. Which means your toddler will not use it to shoot his sister, and your depressed teenage son will not have it nearby when he feels suicidal. That is the whole point of gun control. You give you the right to treat guns as toys, and in exchange you get a large reduction in the likelihood of being shot.

It's a bargain I'm glad of, but many Americans don't see the benefit of.

I don't have a toddler or a suicidal teenager, so what are you protecting me from? I do have a constitutional right to self defense using hand guns. Mandating that I ask an intruder, however unlikely, to wait while I go to the safe and open it, eliminates that right.

Your premise of course starts with a straw man. We don't have a society that is free of risk. My wife sleeps more soundly (and at all) because she knows we have a defensive means beyond hoping that the alarm will result in the police showing up 15 minutes later in time to assist.

Your other premise is that these sort of restrictions produce a large reduction in the risk of being shot. If you're citing Kellerman as the basis for that belief, that's unfortunate. His awful research is the reason why the CDC has its funding ban on the subject.

[gowlerk 2,216]

Quote

I don't have a toddler or a suicidal teenager, so what are you protecting me from?

I'm protecting you from nothing at all. It's not all about you. That is the problem. Most Americans care only for their right to have cool weapons to play with. They are too selfish to consider the greater good. It's about having a society with far fewer gun deaths. Those were just examples of some of the ways Americans die from guns.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.