Global Temp Changes

[billvon 2,997]

>Actually Bill, the point was the planet was cooling at a rate not seen before. That is what the
>article said anyway.

The article, of course, is lying. (It is Breitbart after all.) Here's what the article says:

"Global land temperatures have plummeted by one degree Celsius since the middle of this year – the biggest and steepest fall on record."

No, it didn't. The mean anomaly from one satellite measurement dropped one degree, not the surface temperatures. Satellite measurements measure temperatures in the lower troposphere, not the land. (And they are STILL showing record highs for the year.)

For this year, here are the mean surface temperature anomalies (i.e. temperatures above average in C) for the year:

Jan +1.16 Feb +1.34 Mar +1.3 Apr +1.09 May +0.94 Jun +0.76 Jul +0.84 Aug +0.99 Sep +0.9 Oct +0.89

Do you see a "plummet" in there? I just see an El Nino that peaked around Feb, and now we're back to our "normal" warming.

It also says:

"It can be argued that without the El Niño (and the so-called "Pacific Blob") 2014-2016 would not have been record warm years."

El Nino didn't even start until October 2014, which means it at most affected 16% of the year. And in any case, even if you exclude 2014, there were three other record years in there before the last really big El Nino in 1998.

"Many think that 2017 will be cooler than previous years. Myles Allen of Oxford University says that by the time of the next big United Nations climate conference, global temperatures are likely to be no warmer than the Paris COP in 2015."

Probably true. It's always colder after an El Nino. We are now back to our "normal" warming trend. I'd expect to see the next record warm year around 2018-2019.

Remember back when you posted "there's only one problem with climate change - it ended in 1998!" and it came back to bite you in the ass? You're doing it again.

[brenthutch 444]

Kettle meet pot.


"Re: [rushmc] Global Temp Changes [In reply to] Quote | Reply
>Well this prediction has fallen into the shitter now hasn't it!

No, it hasn't. Arctic ice is at a record low. 2016 is on track to be the warmest year ever recorded."

[rushmc 23]

Only with manipulated data


Maybe you can win the $100,000!

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/12/08/global-warming-fails-the-random-natural-variation-contest/

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DJL 235]

rushmc

Only with manipulated data


Maybe you can win the $100,000!

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/12/08/global-warming-fails-the-random-natural-variation-contest/

Yeah, I'm sure you understand every bit of that contest.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,997]

>Only with manipulated data

Nope. All three ground based data sets (HADCRUT, JAXA, NASA) agree that we've had the warmest year on record so far, and we have NOT seen the largest drops ever this year.

(Unless the UK and Japan are in on the big global warming conspiracy, of course.)

>Maybe you can win the $100,000!

Right.

I'll tell you what, Rush. I'll give you $10,000 (to you or the charity of your choice) if you can prove there's no global warming. Based on all your claims it should be easy to prove, so get cracking!

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>Only with manipulated data

Nope. All three ground based data sets (HADCRUT, JAXA, NASA) agree that we've had the warmest year on record so far, and we have NOT seen the largest drops ever this year.

(Unless the UK and Japan are in on the big global warming conspiracy, of course.)

>Maybe you can win the $100,000!

Right.

I'll tell you what, Rush. I'll give you $10,000 (to you or the charity of your choice) if you can prove there's no global warming. Based on all your claims it should be easy to prove, so get cracking!

there you go confusing the issue again

Maybe I should offer you $10,000 if you can prove man is causing significant warming of the planet.

You can't but I can ask you to try.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,997]

>there you go confusing the issue again

Sorry if I am confusing you. It's pretty simple.

We are emitting enough CO2 to raise the percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere significantly. (50% so far)

Increasing CO2 in the atmosphere of a planet will increase retained heat.

We are seeing the temperature rise we expect from our increases of CO2.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>there you go confusing the issue again

Sorry if I am confusing you. It's pretty simple.

We are emitting enough CO2 to raise the percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere significantly. (50% so far)

Increasing CO2 in the atmosphere of a planet will increase retained heat.

We are seeing the temperature rise we expect from our increases of CO2.

And yet with all this BS you still cannot win the bet.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DJL 235]

rushmc

***>there you go confusing the issue again

Sorry if I am confusing you. It's pretty simple.

We are emitting enough CO2 to raise the percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere significantly. (50% so far)

Increasing CO2 in the atmosphere of a planet will increase retained heat.

We are seeing the temperature rise we expect from our increases of CO2.

And yet with all this BS you still cannot win the bet.

As if you would agree to any conditions or ever agree to even the most glaring proof.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[DanG 1]

I'll give anyone $10,000 if they can prove to me that the sky is blue.

- Dan G

[DJL 235]

DanG

I'll give anyone $10,000 if they can prove to me that the sky is blue.

Interesting parrallel. One is unprovable to the target audience because of the lens by which they choose to view it. The other is unprovable because of the lens by which it's viewed.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,997]

>I'll give anyone $10,000 if they can prove to me that the sky is blue.

Yeah, you and your "blue sky consensus" lie. Well, here's an article from looneytunes.com that shows the sky is full of RABBITS. See? There's no consensus!

[gowlerk 2,198]

Quote

Let's talk about coal. Since I live close to West Virginia it has an effect on our local economy.

http://www.npr.org/2016/12/15/505577680/advanced-black-lung-cases-surge-in-appalachia

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[DJL 235]

I the meantime the system of shell corporations that mine owners have created is allowing them to shed pension and healthcare requirements to miners. Fortunately a campaign led by Mark Warner and supported by both parties may save the day. https://outreach.senate.gov/iqextranet/view_newsletter.aspx?id=107712&c=SenWarner

But who are the mining companies blaming? You guessed it, Obama and the EPA.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,997]

>http://www.npr.org/...-surge-in-appalachia

Look, OK, so maybe a lot more people are suffering from progressive massive fibrosis. But they opened a new Wal-Mart in town! What are they complaining about?

[kallend 2,027]

Coal!

www.npr.org/2016/12/15/505577680/advanced-black-lung-cases-surge-in-appalachia

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 801]

Solar!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-15/world-energy-hits-a-turning-point-solar-that-s-cheaper-than-wind

[billvon 2,997]

Second warmest November on record; massive warming in Arctic. From WaPo:

===============================
Abnormally warm Arctic spurs planet to second-warmest November on record
By Jason Same
December 15

It’s frigid outside over large parts of the United States, but the planet is still warming, as evidenced by a near record-warm November for the globe.

Temperatures in parts of the Arctic averaged more than 20 degrees above normal, as Earth recorded its second warmest November since 1880 (when records began).

NASA data show the planet’s temperature was 1.7 degrees above the 1951-1980 November average, and just slightly cooler than November 2015 — the record-setter (at 1.8 degrees above average).

While some media commentators misleadingly claimed the Earth’s land temperature recently experienced its greatest drop ever recorded, NASA data show whatever drop there was (because of the transition from El Niño to La Niña) has begun to reverse. In fact, 2016’s average November global land temperature was the warmest on record, 2.3 degrees above average, the data indicate.
================================

[Phil1111 1,149]

normiss

Solar!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-15/world-energy-hits-a-turning-point-solar-that-s-cheaper-than-wind

"This year has seen a remarkable run for solar power. Auctions, where private companies compete for massive contracts to provide electricity, established record after record for cheap solar power. It started with a contract in January to produce electricity for $64 per megawatt-hour in India; then a deal in August pegging $29.10 per megawatt hour in Chile. That’s record-cheap electricity—roughly half the price of competing coal power. "

1 mwh=1000 kwh

Below are US retail rates. Of course markups, standby peak generation costs and transmission costs are factored into residential rates.

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/

When combined with:
"Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Vinod Khosla, Jack Ma, John Doerr and 15 other high-profile investors have formed a new venture firm, Breakthrough Energy Ventures, that will pour at least $1 billion into cleantech companies over the next 20 years."
https://techcrunch.com/2016/12/11/bill-gates-jeff-bezos-and-18-others-commit-1-billion-to-new-cleantech-fund-breakthrough-energy-ventures/

[normiss 801]

You've apparently missed an fairly important word in the discussion, "global".

The entire planet doesn't have the power generation and distribution structure we have here in the US, nor do many of them have the ability to build and support such a system.
As the piece noted, "Solar power, for the first time, is becoming the cheapest form of new electricity."

[DJL 235]

Quote

Look, OK, so maybe a lot more people are suffering from progressive massive fibrosis. But they opened a new Wal-Mart in town! What are they complaining about? "

You jest but they do this and make it a big photo op saying they're bringing jobs to the area.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[kallend 2,027]

billvon

NASA data show....

NASA? They can't even get a man to the ISS without the Russians. What does NASA know? I expect they've been paid off by the Chinese.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Phil1111 1,149]

normiss

You've apparently missed an fairly important word in the discussion, "global".

The entire planet doesn't have the power generation and distribution structure we have here in the US, nor do many of them have the ability to build and support such a system.
As the piece noted, "Solar power, for the first time, is becoming the cheapest form of new electricity."

Smart, distributed power generation grids are the wave of the future. Including industrialized countries. They naturally lend themselves to solar, wind and cogeneration projects.

http://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/beyond-the-building-blocks-implications-of-the-clean-power-plan-for-distributed-resources-and-advanced-grid-technologies/

http://www.elp.com/articles/print/volume-91/issue-5/sections/smart-distribution-a-self-healing-and-optimized-grid.html

https://www.smartgrid.gov/the_smart_grid/distribution_intelligence.html

The future smart grid for developing countries.
http://www.wri.org/sites/default/files/The_Future_Electricity_Grid.pdf

[gowlerk 2,198]

Quote

Smart, distributed power generation grids are the wave of the future. Including industrialized countries. They naturally lend themselves to solar, wind and cogeneration projects.

Hopefully they are protected against Russian and Chinese hacking by some kind of isolation as well. Tit for tat cyber wars are just around the corner.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[normiss 801]

Stuxnet version? Duqu version? Flame version?
Siemens has a metric shit ton of power gen gear the world over, let's hope they've improved their PLC communications security a LOT.
...I still wonder how it's progressing through North Korea though.....