What makes America great?

[wmw999 2,517]

I'm interested. From people who live here, who don't, who think it's great, and who think it's lost it's greatness.

What would make it better? It'd be better to have more concrete thoughts than "feel better."

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[DanG 1]

Our founding principles of liberty and equality. The idea of the country is great. We don't always achieve the idea, but the fact that we try makes us great.

- Dan G

[rushmc 23]

wmw999

I'm interested. From people who live here, who don't, who think it's great, and who think it's lost it's greatness.

What would make it better? It'd be better to have more concrete thoughts than "feel better."

Wendy P.

I think it is great but, it can be better.

What makes it great is it's people. NOT THE GOVERNMENT.

Our oversized intrusive government has placed so many regulations on us that the economic engine of this country is struggling. That economic engine is small business.

The regulations are driven, in part, IMO, by big business. Big business can not compete with small business (in most sectors) and they use government to regulate away the competition. A perfect example in my area are small meat lockers. The FDA requirements on them, under the guise of food safety have driven nearly all of them out of business. Much to the joy or the big meat packers.

Regulation has also driven bigger companies over seas.

I still say our more expensive labor can compete with any country for almost any kind of manufacturing IF, meaningless over the top regulation is removed. Why? Because we can out build them with efficiency!

EPA, OSHA, DoE are just a few that need to be pulled back in. They are out of control.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,558]

Quote

What makes it great is it's people.

What does that mean? People are people everywhere. They can make any country great.

Quote

I still say our more expensive labor can compete with any country for almost any kind of manufacturing IF, meaningless over the top regulation is removed. Why? Because we can out build them with efficiency!

How?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[quade 4]

So, I think the "government" you're looking for is Somalia.

Sadly, the people aren't so great there.

Is it possible that what is really needed is some combination of both people and government to function as a society?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[normiss 844]

It's a beautiful country with a ton of natural resources for starters, I think the amazing diversity of people and their life experiences are a large part of what makes it great, along with our freedoms.
The freedoms and desires to pursue a life of your choosing is pretty awesome too, sure seems to help a lot of small businesses start and flourish as well.

Education and some serious efforts to improve our infrastructure could go a long way to helping improve it.

[nigel99 559]

wmw999

I'm interested. From people who live here, who don't, who think it's great, and who think it's lost it's greatness.

What would make it better? It'd be better to have more concrete thoughts than "feel better."

Wendy P.

Honestly as an outsider, but someone who's spent a fair amount of time on and off in the USA, I don't think America is 'Great'. Don't get me wrong I like the USA, but there is a sense of disconnect that many Americans seem to have that the American way is the 'right way'.

There are countries in the world with much higher standards of living and quality of life than the USA, better healthcare, better education, less violence, more freedom etc. The US undoubtedly has the best defence budget and military toys!

Interestingly I was in California during your election and this topic came up with my boss. Bear in mind he works in Oil and Gas and was giving a talk at church on benefits of fracking, which should place him on the political spectrum for you! He asked what the rest of the world thought of trump being elected and so I showed him some of the discussion threads from Aus largely dominated by maps renamed to 'Dumbfuckistan'. His reaction was stereotypical of what I perceive the American arrogance to be and that was 'they are just jealous because we are the best' Conversation then went into how the US has to be world policeman and look at how the USA is having to sort out the problems in the Middle East etc. Since he's my boss and the other two of us tend to believe quite a lot of the problems in the Middle East are because of the USA in the first place, it seemed a good time to change topic and remember what not to discuss over a beer!

I see the US as a big teenage kid, young, enthusiastic and full of ideals on how they will change the world. We need that kind of attitude to drive things forward so it's a good thing.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[gowlerk 2,246]

What makes America great is the promise it holds. It's not really inherently better than other societies, but it makes an effort to try to be. Or it did.....

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[DanG 1]

Quote

There are countries in the world with much higher standards of living and quality of life than the USA, better healthcare, better education, less violence, more freedom etc.

Well, I think you're overstating your case a little. There are some countries with slightly higher standards of living. There are also some countries that have different freedoms, but I'm not sure there is anywhere where the citizens have more freedom. That's very subjective, of course. There's no question that some countries have better healthcare, better education, and less violence, I'll grant you that.

- Dan G

[christelsabine 1]

DanG

Well, I think you're overstating your case a little. There are some countries with slightly higher standards of living. There are also some countries that have different freedoms, but I'm not sure there is anywhere where the citizens have more freedom. That's very subjective, of course. There's no question that some countries have better healthcare, better education, and less violence, I'll grant you that.

Citizens having more freedom in which regard?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[gowlerk 2,246]

gowlerk

What makes America great is the promise it holds. It's not really inherently better than other societies, but it makes an effort to try to be. Or it did.....

On further reflection, things that I think are important to America:


Immigration, it has always been important. Despite the current thinking that "Mexico is not sending it's best" the best is always what seems to make the great effort of uprooting themselves and moving away. Immigration is one of the great drivers of America. This is possible because American natural resources are not yet fully exploited. There is still a lot of room for population and economic growth. Fully developed nations can't cope with this. China for example. It's old and hidebound and fearful of its masses of people. There is no room for much individuality in that kind of place. In America it thrives.

Another very important factor is the 1st Amendment rights. Freedom of the press is what gave you Breitbart News and enabled Trump. But it's also what will limit the damage that can be done. And it will usher in change when it is again time for change.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

nigel99

***I'm interested. From people who live here, who don't, who think it's great, and who think it's lost it's greatness.

What would make it better? It'd be better to have more concrete thoughts than "feel better."

Wendy P.

Honestly as an outsider, but someone who's spent a fair amount of time on and off in the USA, I don't think America is 'Great'. Don't get me wrong I like the USA, but there is a sense of disconnect that many Americans seem to have that the American way is the 'right way'.

There are countries in the world with much higher standards of living and quality of life than the USA, better healthcare, better education, less violence, more freedom etc. The US undoubtedly has the best defence budget and military toys!

Interestingly I was in California during your election and this topic came up with my boss. Bear in mind he works in Oil and Gas and was giving a talk at church on benefits of fracking, which should place him on the political spectrum for you! He asked what the rest of the world thought of trump being elected and so I showed him some of the discussion threads from Aus largely dominated by maps renamed to 'Dumbfuckistan'. His reaction was stereotypical of what I perceive the American arrogance to be and that was 'they are just jealous because we are the best' Conversation then went into how the US has to be world policeman and look at how the USA is having to sort out the problems in the Middle East etc. Since he's my boss and the other two of us tend to believe quite a lot of the problems in the Middle East are because of the USA in the first place, it seemed a good time to change topic and remember what not to discuss over a beer!

I see the US as a big teenage kid, young, enthusiastic and full of ideals on how they will change the world. We need that kind of attitude to drive things forward so it's a good thing.

Very much feel the same.

[gowlerk 2,246]

Hey kids, this thread is about what makes America great. Not what is wrong with America. Start another thread for that, this one should be upbeat. There is plenty of good to point to.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Stumpy 284]

wmw999

I'm interested. From people who live here, who don't, who think it's great, and who think it's lost it's greatness.

What would make it better? It'd be better to have more concrete thoughts than "feel better."

Wendy P.

The Climate in socal
The scenery in the Pacific NW
The waves in Hawaii
The wildness in Alaska
The Jazz in New Orleans
The technology in Silicon Valley
The people all over
My family in TX and
My company in GA!

What could make it better? Your motorbikes suck! Make something that goes round a corner!

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Opportunity, resources and rule of law.

The old adage "anyone can grow up to be President" isn't really true, but look at recent history. Trump, Bush (both of them) and Kennedy come from wealthy families. Born into privilege.

Obama, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson & Ike all did not.

Jobs & Wosniak, Gates, Zuckerberg, Ford (Henry), and a zillion others all made huge fortunes starting from the proverbial "humble beginnings." Seeing an opportunity, going after it, getting lucky (which is important), and making it big. The stereotypical "American Dream." (or at least one version of it).

This country has huge quantities of all sorts of natural resources. Precious metals (how many "gold rushes" have we had?) fossil fuels (coal deposits that are virtually limitless), land (food, lumber, and so on). All those have been essential to making this country the power it is.
We've used those resources to create one of the best infrastructures in the world. Roads, railroads, communication, utilities (power, water, sewer) that are as good or better than just about anywhere else.

Yes, much of the "first world" has similar stuff. But how much of the world has decent roads? Ever been to Mexico (off the toll roads)? How much of the world can't simply turn a valve and get clean water. Or push a lever and have the waste "go away"?
How much of the world has dependable power. In most of the US, if the power is off for more than an hour, it's big news. Even after a major event (like a hurricane) power is largely restored in a matter of days.

And last is the rule of law, fairness and equality. Anyone can start a business. There are rules to follow, licenses & permits to obtain and taxes to pay.
But those things apply to everyone equally. There aren't "palms to grease" in order to get a business license (at least in most places).
The cops apply the laws to most people the same (again, mostly). Corruption is minimal. In other places, that sort of thing is "business as usual." You need to know people to get anything done. You need to pay bribes to get permits.

It's not perfect, far from it. But it's better than it used to be, and it's a lot better than a lot of places.

"American Exceptionalism" is a joke. We (as a people) really aren't any better or different than anywhere (or anyone) else.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[nigel99 559]

DanG

Quote

There are countries in the world with much higher standards of living and quality of life than the USA, better healthcare, better education, less violence, more freedom etc.

Well, I think you're overstating your case a little. There are some countries with slightly higher standards of living. There are also some countries that have different freedoms, but I'm not sure there is anywhere where the citizens have more freedom. That's very subjective, of course. There's no question that some countries have better healthcare, better education, and less violence, I'll grant you that.

Your comments on freedom got me thinking. I agree there are different freedoms (as a U.K. citizen I'm allowed to see a female breast in a newspaper, a freedom you're not given ), we have free speech the only real difference I'm aware of is that there are gun controls although you can still own guns.

So without derailing this into a gun thread, where America is possibly the only country with gun 'rights' (I've done no research to see if there are others) is there actually a freedom that the USA has that is not the norm across western countries?

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[nigel99 559]

Nice summary.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[wmw999 2,517]

I'd have to put your three high on my list.
Part of me is hoping to find out how it isn't great, so that it can be made "great again." There's no way to return to any particular time, and you certainly can't have the pluses without the minuses. I mean the 50's were great in some ways, unless you happened to be a minority, a woman who wanted something besides homemaking, anyone non-gender conforming, an atheist, a perceived communist, a Jew in some places, lots of things.

But if you were a white guy with a high school education, and a father who could get you a job, it was great.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

nigel99

Your comments on freedom got me thinking. I agree there are different freedoms (as a U.K. citizen I'm allowed to see a female breast in a newspaper, a freedom you're not given ), we have free speech the only real difference I'm aware of is that there are gun controls although you can still own guns.

So without derailing this into a gun thread, where America is possibly the only country with gun 'rights' (I've done no research to see if there are others) is there actually a freedom that the USA has that is not the norm across western countries?

Didn't Australia used to have pretty liberal gun laws? Most (all?) semi-autos were banned after the tragedy in 96? But before that they had similar access to what the US has. Canada also used to have pretty similar laws (again, until the reaction after a shooting incident).

And comparing the US to the western democracies (western Europe, Australia, ect) - how long have the western countries had those freedoms?

To a large degree, Europe was a collection of feudal kingdoms until the 20th century. They largely became democracies in the rebuilding after WWII. And they now have similar freedoms, rights and opportunities as the US. And very similar standards of living and infrastructures.

The comparison becomes truly obvious when the US is compared with Russia, China, or much of Africa or South America.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[SivaGanesha 2]

The most stable government on the planet. The US has had a stable government since 1789 when the Constitution was ratified. Very few other countries can make that claim. The UK comes close. However the UK king still had real power in 1789. Plus the UK suspended free elections in WW2. And the UK permanently lost territory (Ireland).

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[DanG 1]

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Citizens having more freedom in which regard?

Well, for instance our citizens have the freedom to use Nazi symbols, where yours do not. Is this a significant freedom? Not on its face, but in the context of the lack of what we call prior restraint, it is very significant.

- Dan G

[DanG 1]

The freedom of speech in the US is much broader than in Europe, including the UK. Your libel laws allow the effective prior restraint of a lot of speech that would be legal in the US. Gun rights are actually rights, even if they are rights you are not accustomed to. We could do a better job of regulating guns, but the fact that anyone can arm themselves is a significant difference between the US and other countries.

- Dan G

[SkyDekker 1,465]

DanG

The freedom of speech in the US is much broader than in Europe, including the UK. Your libel laws allow the effective prior restraint of a lot of speech that would be legal in the US. Gun rights are actually rights, even if they are rights you are not accustomed to. We could do a better job of regulating guns, but the fact that anyone can arm themselves is a significant difference between the US and other countries.

Not really.

The only difference is the ability to freely walk around with them. Almost all Western countries allow the purchase of firearms in some form of another.

Freedom of speech is indeed more broad. I don't see the benefit.

On the other hand, women have more freedoms in most other western countries than in the US and are on more equal footing with men than in the US.

And with record incarceration in the US, it is hard to say Americans as a whole have more freedoms. Maybe on paper, but in practice many more of them end up in prison.

Life sentences for shoplifting, 30 year for a joint. People in jail for not paying debts. Hard to tout the wonderful freedom in the US.

[piisfish 140]

The ban on pre-shredded cheese would make America grate again

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[christelsabine 1]

DanG

Quote

Citizens having more freedom in which regard?

Well, for instance our citizens have the freedom to use Nazi symbols, where yours do not. Is this a significant freedom? Not on its face, but in the context of the lack of what we call prior restraint, it is very significant.

No surprise here, I was expecting that *example* - and no, I do not feel suppressed a bit by that silly law.

OTOH, what kind of freedom would I enjoy by using swastika?? What am I missing?

dudeist skydiver # 3105