Dems...what is it that scares you about Trump?

[winsor 236]

quade

***So Trump makes a snarky comment about Boeing and the cost of Air Force one via a tweet that has caused a $1.48 billion hit to the value of a single company.


Just fucking WOW! Indeed.

Better buckle up buttercup, this is going to get crazy.

At this point I think we need to start doing investigations of his and his family's various holdings and see who may have prior knowledge of what he's about to tweet. See if, for instance, anyone shorted Boeing in the last 24 hours.

Consider Hanlon's Razor.

[airdvr 210]

So someone will need to explain to me why AF1 is 8 times more expensive than a standard 747-800.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[winsor 236]

airdvr

So someone will need to explain to me why AF1 is 8 times more expensive than a standard 747-800.

Better paint job.

[quade 4]

winsor

Consider Hanlon's Razor.

People in general ARE assuming he's stupid. The thing is, we also know he's a con-man.

I don't think it's a stretch to consider Trump has recognized the power making a tweet and the effect it can have on the market.

To say the least, the potential is YUGE.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airdvr 210]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Robert,

Quote

Boeing responded by saying that it is currently under contract

I spent 30 yrs in US gov't. contracting. Something tells me that Boeing has a very nice cancellation clause in any of their contracts with the US gov't.

Jerry Baumchen

I'm sure they do...but it's not 4 billion.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[quade 4]

airdvr

So someone will need to explain to me why AF1 is 8 times more expensive than a standard 747-800.

Ahem . . . because it's NOT a "standard" 747-800.

To wit, the money isn't the airframe. It's all the goodies inside.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airdvr 210]

quade

***Consider Hanlon's Razor.

People in general ARE assuming he's stupid. The thing is, we also know he's a con-man.

I don't think it's a stretch to consider Trump has recognized the power making a tweet and the effect it can have on the market.

To say the least, the potential is YUGE.

Your side assuming he's stupid is what got you into this mess.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[airdvr 210]

quade

***So someone will need to explain to me why AF1 is 8 times more expensive than a standard 747-800.

Ahem . . . because it's NOT a "standard" 747-800.

To wit, the money isn't the airframe. It's all the goodies inside.

I thought you guys wanted to cut defense spending?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[SkyDekker 1,465]

airdvr

******Consider Hanlon's Razor.

People in general ARE assuming he's stupid. The thing is, we also know he's a con-man.

I don't think it's a stretch to consider Trump has recognized the power making a tweet and the effect it can have on the market.

To say the least, the potential is YUGE.

Your side assuming he's stupid is what got you into this mess.

That's not true. Assuming he was stupid didn't get anybody in any mess. Assuming there wouldn't be that many stupid people to vote for him is what did it.

Turns out there really are THAT many stupid people.

[quade 4]

airdvr

Your side assuming he's stupid is what got you into this mess.

There's stupid and there's stupid.

Trump is stupid when it comes to knowledge of the US and world affairs.
Trump is not stupid when it comes to being a con-man and manipulation of suckers.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,991]

>So someone will need to explain to me why AF1 is 8 times more expensive than a standard 747-800.

Because there is stuff inside it other than overhead bins and uncomfortable seats.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

airdvr

So someone will need to explain to me why AF1 is 8 times more expensive than a standard 747-800.

Seriously, you need an explanation?

It is for the same reason Trump's 1991 Boeing 757 is worth multitudes of a run of the mill 1991 Boeing 757.

And the $4 billion number is just grabbed out of thin air. But clearly you don't need an explanation for that. That shit we take as gospel!

[ryoder 1,590]

airdvr

So someone will need to explain to me why AF1 is 8 times more expensive than a standard 747-800.

Stop using Drumpf's bullshit numbers.

747: $357M
AF1: 2 for $1.65B, or $826M each
AF1 costs 2.3 X cost of 747

Special features on AF1: http://people.howstuffworks.com/air-force-one4.htm

ETA I learned the model # of AF1 is officially "VC-25": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_VC-25

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[airdvr 210]

ryoder

***So someone will need to explain to me why AF1 is 8 times more expensive than a standard 747-800.

Stop using Drumpf's bullshit numbers.

747: $357M
AF1: 2 for $1.65B, or $826M each
AF1 costs 2.3 X cost of 747

Special features on AF1: http://people.howstuffworks.com/air-force-one4.htm

ETA I learned the model # of AF1 is officially "VC-25": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_VC-25

That's why I asked for an explanation. Seemed far fetched to me.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[kallend 2,026]

airdvr

******So someone will need to explain to me why AF1 is 8 times more expensive than a standard 747-800.

Stop using Drumpf's bullshit numbers.

747: $357M
AF1: 2 for $1.65B, or $826M each
AF1 costs 2.3 X cost of 747

Special features on AF1: http://people.howstuffworks.com/air-force-one4.htm

ETA I learned the model # of AF1 is officially "VC-25": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_VC-25

That's why I asked for an explanation. Seemed far fetched to me.

"Far fetched" describes just about all of Trump's statements, yet there are enough suckers who believed them to make him President Elect.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[airdvr 210]

OK...well I didn't realize there were 2 being built. According to Politifact...

How much will the project cost?

The Air Force has published a budgetary document that says research, development, testing and evaluation of the new Air Force Ones -- officially known as the Presidential Aircraft Recapitalization -- will cost $2.87 billion between fiscal years 2015 and 2021. However, the project is expected to extend beyond 2021, and experts told PolitiFact it would likely require another $1 billion in subsequent years to finish the job. The Teal Group has estimated that the project will require an additional $858 million between fiscal years 2022 and 2026.

That adds up to a grand total of $3.73 billion over 12 years. That’s not "more than $4 billion," as Trump said, but it’s reasonably close -- and it’s no secret that defense contracts have a history of escalating in cost over time. Already, in response to inquiries from the media after Trump’s tweet, an Air Force spokesman told reporters to expect the interim $2.7 billion figure "to change as the program matures."

So as a raw number, Trump’s $4 billion figure is in the ballpark.

Now...let's think about how much (2) AF1s get used. Certainly not like your typical commercial airliner. In fact, I'll wager it's a small percentage in comparison. I might even go so far as to say they're hangar queens. 30-year life span...hardly. And, do we really need two? Hell, the Cuba you guys love had the official funeral procession car break down during the procession.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[GeorgiaDon 362]

The Air Force Ones are super expensive because they are designed to keep the President alive and functional (as in, able to carry out duties as Commander in Chief) under all circumstances including wartime scenarios. Accordingly they have defenses against missile attack, they are flying Faraday cages with protection against an electromagnetic pulse (generated by even distant nuclear explosions) that would fry the electronics of any normal aircraft, they are capable of air-to-air refueling, and they have to have communications capabilities that allow completely secure contact from any place in the world. It would seem obvious that it would be a big problem if the President was unreachable any time he or she was traveling. These planes might also have to transport the President while the country is under attack and it would be particularly critical that the President be able to communicate with staff, the military, etc. They could be also attacked directly in an effort to kill the President and create confusion before an attack on the country. Would you prefer that the President just fly commercial like the rest of us, or would that only apply to Democratic Presidents?

Quote

And, do we really need two?

I have read that there are always two so one can be used as a decoy as well as a backup in case one is undergoing maintenance or repairs.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[crazydaisy315 0]

My concerns about ANY republican president:
1. Corporate welfare, and generally elevating corporations to the same (or higher) status as people (Citizens United and Hobby Lobby being two recent examples of right-wing based supreme court decisions), which also includes destruction of regulatory bodies.
2. Supply-side nonsense (seriously, just look at the economic trainwreck that is the state of KS for a brief overview of how well that voodoo works)
3. Their constant desire to destroy the safety-net (I will never say that the programs cannot be improved, but privatization is not the answer, see my point 1)
4. Don't even get me started on the social issues, but that will always be a bickering point, and I agree it is mainly used to distract us from the money grab that occupies points 1-3.

My specific concerns about Trump:
1. Complete lack of foreign policy knowledge
2. Proven lack of self-control or restraint
3. Clear conflicts of interest
4. An attitude towards the "other" (anyone other than straight white male) that I would consider inappropriate in any adult, let alone a president, which has certainly appeared to empower others who used to keep their opinions on the down-low to become more vociferous and even to act out.

What do I think will actually HAPPEN?
1. He will have conflicts of interest that enrich himself, his family and his friends and supporters everywhere.
2. We will have more diplomatic crises internationally and will generally be considered more negatively by other world leaders
3. Empowering corporations over people, by gutting regulations that protect us from corporations as well as corporate tax breaks, etc. (In this world, consumer boycotts are rarely effective at reigning in corporate bad behavior)
4. Privatization of education (a well educated citizenry is the bedrock of a successful democracy, and the garlic to the corporate world vampire.), privatization of social security (yes, rather than fix it, lets just all gamble on the stock market, that's always secure.), and voucherization of Medicare.

Sorry for the novel, but its a good question that deserved a thoughtful reply.

[Phil1111 1,149]

https://www.paramountbusinessjets.com/blog/2015/02/worlds-top-10-presidential-aircraft/

The whole idea of two AC is ridiculous. Its not like the VP couldn't press the, or a "button" if the president was killed.

It's not like a 737, 777, or 787 would not do. I hear the "Leader of the free world" needs this. LOL

England's PM http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3675753/It-s-Austerity-Force-One-Prime-Minister-s-new-dedicated-aircraft-unveiled-looks-plain-plane.html

China http://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/1860794/frugal-globetrotter-president-xi-jinping-flies-air

[airdvr 210]

GeorgiaDon

The Air Force Ones are super expensive because they are designed to keep the President alive and functional (as in, able to carry out duties as Commander in Chief) under all circumstances including wartime scenarios. Accordingly they have defenses against missile attack, they are flying Faraday cages with protection against an electromagnetic pulse (generated by even distant nuclear explosions) that would fry the electronics of any normal aircraft, they are capable of air-to-air refueling, and they have to have communications capabilities that allow completely secure contact from any place in the world. It would seem obvious that it would be a big problem if the President was unreachable any time he or she was traveling. These planes might also have to transport the President while the country is under attack and it would be particularly critical that the President be able to communicate with staff, the military, etc. They could be also attacked directly in an effort to kill the President and create confusion before an attack on the country. Would you prefer that the President just fly commercial like the rest of us, or would that only apply to Democratic Presidents?

Quote

And, do we really need two?

I have read that there are always two so one can be used as a decoy as well as a backup in case one is undergoing maintenance or repairs.

Don

Not questioning whether we need a special aircraft to transport the president. Do we need a new one (or two)?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[ryoder 1,590]

Phil1111

https://www.paramountbusinessjets.com/blog/2015/02/worlds-top-10-presidential-aircraft/

The whole idea of two AC is ridiculous. Its not like the VP couldn't press the, or a "button" if the president was killed.

It's not like a 737, 777, or 787 would not do. I hear the "Leader of the free world" needs this. LOL

England's PM http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3675753/It-s-Austerity-Force-One-Prime-Minister-s-new-dedicated-aircraft-unveiled-looks-plain-plane.html

China http://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/1860794/frugal-globetrotter-president-xi-jinping-flies-air

I can't argue with that, but I did find this amusing paragraph in your first link:

Easily outstripping the world-famous Air Force One for cost and performance, the Dreamliner can hold 250 passengers and fly 10,000 miles straight without refueling. This means it can soar through the skies at 1,000mph and make the trip from Los Angeles to Tokyo without stopping. If the $600 million price tag wasn’t enough, the plane will cost a further $100,000 per year in maintenance – and that’s before it’s even taken off!

Who knew that the 787 could cruise at supersonic speeds?


Also, I did not realize there were still separate "Doomsday" a/c. I thought AF1 had that function, but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_E-4

When the President travels outside of North America using a VC-25A as Air Force One, an E-4B will deploy to a second airport in the vicinity of the President's destination, to be readily available in the event of a world crisis or an emergency that renders the VC-25A unusable. When the President visits Honolulu, Hawaii, an E-4B has often been stationed 200 miles away at Hilo International Airport on Hawaii Island.

And we have four of them: http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/up-to-2b-to-maintain-upgrade-usas-e4b-naoc-fleet-01671/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[nolhtairt 0]

airdvr

So someone will need to explain to me why AF1 is 8 times more expensive than a standard 747-800.

That's top secret stuff. You and I don't have clearance to know that stuff.

Off-hand, I would say it involves self defense measures built into the plane, as well as CIA, NSA and FBI communication equipment and lavish accommodations you don't see in standard 747-800's.

[jakee 1,489]

Quote

Not questioning whether we need a special aircraft to transport the president.

Why not? It's a frankly ludicrous extravagance whose only real functions are to propogate the image of the imperial power of the President, and to satisfy the Dr Strangelove-esque paranoia/wet dreams that the US leadership has over the risk of all out global warfare.

That said, it's a drop in the ocean of the overall defence budget. The budget overrun on the first Ford class carrier alone (which still isn't ready) is more than the whole cost of the AF1 replacement program.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[winsor 236]

kallend

"Far fetched" describes just about all of Trump's statements, yet there are enough suckers who believed them to make him President Elect.

I know of nobody who thinks Trump is anything short of FUBAR.

The votes came from those who deemed Hillary to be significantly worse.

[quade 4]

winsor

***
"Far fetched" describes just about all of Trump's statements, yet there are enough suckers who believed them to make him President Elect.

I know of nobody who thinks Trump is anything short of FUBAR.

The votes came from those who deemed Hillary to be significantly worse.

Which is kind of amazing if you think about it. Good job by the alt-right on the disinformation campaign, but holy crap it's amazing anyone bought into stuff like "pizzagate."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver