The final tally is in...

[DanG 1]

Who's going to make more money: a smart trade school grad with drive and determination, or a 4 year college grad with drive and determination?

You are trying to compare lazy college grads to self-motivating trade school grads. It's not a fair comparison.

There's no question that getting a college degree will, all other things being equal, lead to a better financial outcome. That being said, getting a college degree only makes sense if you want to work in the field you studied. If you want to be a mechanic, a college degree would be a waste of time and money. But if you want to be a research scientist it doesn't make much sense to go to air conditioner repair school.

We force way too many kids onto a college path that don't need or want to go to college. I would love to see an expansion of trade schools in the US, including trade schools that teach high tech trades like CNC machining and welding, or even robotics.

- Dan G

[marks2065 0]

jakee

***sorry I rounded up 7 years 10 months

So you gave him a whole month? I guess the classic 100 days would have been just a bit too magnanimous, yeah?

And you still haven't answered why you think a politician on the stump is more honest than a politician who knows the votes have already been counted?

I don't think they are more honest after an election, matter of fact I think they lie more. I did not agree with the almost all of what Obama passed during the first 100 days. he opened his mouth and put up things to the legislation and I disagreed with him. If Trump puts up things I disagree with I will say that I don't like it. but I have to wait until he is sworn in before what he does is actually going to start to change the US. Right now he is just setting up thjngs to happen or not happen.

[kallend 2,026]

nortonbooks.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83534ac5b69e2013484d106a3970c-pi

www.bls.gov/emp/images/ep_chart_001.png

www.nytimes.com/2014/09/11/business/economy/a-simple-equation-more-education-more-income.html?_r=0

fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

marks2065

What gets me is that the states with the most wealthy (the 1%ers that the liberals hate) were told sorry, the states representing the 99% people have control this time. And the liberals are all pissed about that. LOL

And have you heard about this new group of "Trumpocalypse" preppers?

Seems those on the left that believe in the coming Trumpocalypse are buying guns and emergency food in record numbers!



they are funny to watch these days!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>I thought it is funny that the states with a lot of the richest people were shut down
>by the states with the poorest people thanks to the EC, and that the left hates the
>rich they should really have liked the outcome of the election.

That's one way to look at it. Another way is that the least educated people in the US made Trump the president, and that people with average or greater than average education voted overwhelmingly for Clinton.

In your mind they are the least educated but, in truth, they are the smartest.

Myself? I am tired of listening to educated idiots.....

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

JerryBaumchen

Hi marks,

Quote

trade school and ambition will always go farther then a 4 year degree.

They may go farther down the road but they will make less money.

Those are simply the facts.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) I come from a very working class family. My brother was a Teamster for over 30 yrs, I'm a Mech. Engr. I left him behind financially many, many years ago.

Depends on the trade and where you are at.

A journeyman line tech can pull down a $100k base wages these days. In Iowa!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

DanG

Who's going to make more money: a smart trade school grad with drive and determination, or a 4 year college grad with drive and determination?

You are trying to compare lazy college grads to self-motivating trade school grads. It's not a fair comparison.

There's no question that getting a college degree will, all other things being equal, lead to a better financial outcome. That being said, getting a college degree only makes sense if you want to work in the field you studied. If you want to be a mechanic, a college degree would be a waste of time and money. But if you want to be a research scientist it doesn't make much sense to go to air conditioner repair school.

We force way too many kids onto a college path that don't need or want to go to college. I would love to see an expansion of trade schools in the US, including trade schools that teach high tech trades like CNC machining and welding, or even robotics.

Like Northwest Iowa Tech in Sheldon Iowa!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

A journeyman line tech can pull down a $100k base wages these days. In Iowa!

That's great, but I am not sure what I should live off the other 3 quarters of the year?

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

Quote

A journeyman line tech can pull down a $100k base wages these days. In Iowa!

That's great, but I am not sure what I should live off the other 3 quarters of the year?

Ahh
So you are a 1%er who would do well under the Obama policies.

Some of you comments now makes some sense.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

rushmc

***

Quote

A journeyman line tech can pull down a $100k base wages these days. In Iowa!

That's great, but I am not sure what I should live off the other 3 quarters of the year?

Ahh
So you are a 1%er who would do well under the Obama policies.

Some of you comments now makes some sense.


I am definitely a 1% yes.

But Obama's policy really have little influence on that one way or the other.

Remains to be seen if Trump's will. I am much more affected by what happens in Canadian politics. Unfortunately we elected a Drama Teacher which hasn't helped much. Though I Would keep Trudeau over Trump, I would much prefer a Canadian conservative at the helm.

All to say that as usual, you are mostly wrong.

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

******

Quote

A journeyman line tech can pull down a $100k base wages these days. In Iowa!

That's great, but I am not sure what I should live off the other 3 quarters of the year?

Ahh
So you are a 1%er who would do well under the Obama policies.

Some of you comments now makes some sense.


I am definitely a 1% yes.

But Obama's policy really have little influence on that one way or the other.

Remains to be seen if Trump's will. I am much more affected by what happens in Canadian politics. Unfortunately we elected a Drama Teacher which hasn't helped much. Though I Would keep Trudeau over Trump, I would much prefer a Canadian conservative at the helm.

All to say that as usual, you are mostly wrong.

Funny think is no one really knows what is going to happen under Trumps leadership.

Yet you whine a cry like those on the left who live here
and then you say I am wrong

But I know what ever he does will be better than anything Hillary could have done....

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[JerryBaumchen 1,362]

Hi marks,

Quote

but with the savings on school and the earlier entry into the work force helps make up for the loss later on.

It does not. Yup, my brother bought a house years before I did. But I still made a lot more money over the course of our working lives.

Obviously, math was not a strong subject for you.

Jerry Baumchen

[PhreeZone 20]

marks2065

***Hi marks,

Quote

trade school and ambition will always go farther then a 4 year degree.

They may go farther down the road but they will make less money.

Those are simply the facts.



Jerry Baumchen

PS) I come from a very working class family. My brother was a Teamster for over 30 yrs, I'm a Mech. Engr. I left him behind financially many, many years ago.

yes but with the savings on school and the earlier entry into the work force helps make up for the loss later on. Also the drive of the individual will help make it up also. I was way up on earnings on my sister for about 10-12 years before she passed me then I moved up because of desire and passed her again. she has a masters and I have 6 months of trade school. people hold themselves back, not the level of their education. I make more money then over half of the 4 year degree people.

Here are the official BLS stats on average weekly earnings for various levels of education:

Doctoral degree $1,623
Professional degree $1,730
Master's degree $1,341
Bachelor's degree $1,137
Associate's degree $798
Some college, no degree $738
High school diploma $678
Less than a high school diploma $493
All workers $860


Lifetime earnings 25th percentile 75th percentile Average
Less than High School 644,600 1,464,000 819,400
High School Diploma 867,500 1,889,500 1,022,000
Some College/No Degree 1,035,500 2,252,100 1,216,700
Associate’s Degree 1,177,100 2,426,300 1,249,200
Bachelor’s Degree 1,490,600 3,388,700 1,898,100
Master’s Degree 1,864,400 3,835,600 1,971,200
Doctoral Degree 2,150,400 4,743,400 2,592,900
Professional Degree 2,004,600 6,472,800 4,468,200


There is zero chance that even at the 25 percentile of earnings a 4 year college degree costs the 623,000 dollar difference between a High school diploma and a 4 year degree on average. Yes there are a lot of degrees that will not be making the $1100 on average a week such as some of the fringe liberal arts degrees like 15th Century English Lit or Art History but I can say that the first year out of college I and everyone else in my field was making more than the average with our degrees.

As someone that was able to write G code for CNC mills in high school and worked part time as a entry level machinist under someone who completed a full journeyman program in the 80's and is now a retired UAW machinist I can safely say my earnings post degree far our strip what my potential earnings were with that career track. I come from a family that has 3 brothers that all have 35+ years in machining, tool and die work and other skilled trades. None of them have a college degree and make a great living but both my brother and I graduated with 4 year degrees plus technical certifications and started out making more than the others did at their last years towards retirement.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[kallend 2,026]

rushmc

***>I thought it is funny that the states with a lot of the richest people were shut down
>by the states with the poorest people thanks to the EC, and that the left hates the
>rich they should really have liked the outcome of the election.

That's one way to look at it. Another way is that the least educated people in the US made Trump the president, and that people with average or greater than average education voted overwhelmingly for Clinton.

In your mind they are the least educated but, in truth, they are the smartest.

Myself? I am tired of listening to educated idiots.....


Dunning and Kruger strike again.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[marks2065 0]

PhreeZone

******Hi marks,

Quote

trade school and ambition will always go farther then a 4 year degree.

They may go farther down the road but they will make less money.

Those are simply the facts.



Jerry Baumchen

PS) I come from a very working class family. My brother was a Teamster for over 30 yrs, I'm a Mech. Engr. I left him behind financially many, many years ago.

yes but with the savings on school and the earlier entry into the work force helps make up for the loss later on. Also the drive of the individual will help make it up also. I was way up on earnings on my sister for about 10-12 years before she passed me then I moved up because of desire and passed her again. she has a masters and I have 6 months of trade school. people hold themselves back, not the level of their education. I make more money then over half of the 4 year degree people.

Here are the official BLS stats on average weekly earnings for various levels of education:

Doctoral degree $1,623
Professional degree $1,730
Master's degree $1,341
Bachelor's degree $1,137
Associate's degree $798
Some college, no degree $738
High school diploma $678
Less than a high school diploma $493
All workers $860


Lifetime earnings 25th percentile 75th percentile Average
Less than High School 644,600 1,464,000 819,400
High School Diploma 867,500 1,889,500 1,022,000
Some College/No Degree 1,035,500 2,252,100 1,216,700
Associate’s Degree 1,177,100 2,426,300 1,249,200
Bachelor’s Degree 1,490,600 3,388,700 1,898,100
Master’s Degree 1,864,400 3,835,600 1,971,200
Doctoral Degree 2,150,400 4,743,400 2,592,900
Professional Degree 2,004,600 6,472,800 4,468,200


There is zero chance that even at the 25 percentile of earnings a 4 year college degree costs the 623,000 dollar difference between a High school diploma and a 4 year degree on average. Yes there are a lot of degrees that will not be making the $1100 on average a week such as some of the fringe liberal arts degrees like 15th Century English Lit or Art History but I can say that the first year out of college I and everyone else in my field was making more than the average with our degrees.

As someone that was able to write G code for CNC mills in high school and worked part time as a entry level machinist under someone who completed a full journeyman program in the 80's and is now a retired UAW machinist I can safely say my earnings post degree far our strip what my potential earnings were with that career track. I come from a family that has 3 brothers that all have 35+ years in machining, tool and die work and other skilled trades. None of them have a college degree and make a great living but both my brother and I graduated with 4 year degrees plus technical certifications and started out making more than the others did at their last years towards retirement.


WOW I am only $100 away from a doctor and I only paid 3800 for my trade school!! (and that is after I gave myself a paycut for the bad Obama economy)

[marks2065 0]

JerryBaumchen

Hi marks,

Quote

but with the savings on school and the earlier entry into the work force helps make up for the loss later on.

It does not. Yup, my brother bought a house years before I did. But I still made a lot more money over the course of our working lives.

Obviously, math was not a strong subject for you.

Jerry Baumchen

I guess you are not as smart or ambitious as me.

[DanG 1]

Quote

I guess you are not as smart or ambitious as me.

I guess I'm smarter and more ambitious than you.

So are Alec Baldwin and Susan Sarandon, apparently. Michael Moore, too.

- Dan G

[marks2065 0]

rushmc

***What gets me is that the states with the most wealthy (the 1%ers that the liberals hate) were told sorry, the states representing the 99% people have control this time. And the liberals are all pissed about that. LOL

And have you heard about this new group of "Trumpocalypse" preppers?

Seems those on the left that believe in the coming Trumpocalypse are buying guns and emergency food in record numbers!



they are funny to watch these days!

Shouldn't we ban guns from liberals? They comprise the largest portion of the misused guns. We definitely need better backround checks now!!!

[jakee 1,489]

Quote

I don't think they are more honest after an election, matter of fact I think they lie more.

So when he's standing up there at the podium, on his victory tour, flat out telling you that he didn't mean the stuff he said during the campaign, and he's not going to do the stuff he promised during the campaign, you'd still rather believe that he's going to follow through on his campaign promises?

You are some kind of special, my friend!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[marks2065 0]

kallend

nortonbooks.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83534ac5b69e2013484d106a3970c-pi

www.bls.gov/emp/images/ep_chart_001.png

www.nytimes.com/2014/09/11/business/economy/a-simple-equation-more-education-more-income.html?_r=0

fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/

Sorry but I am proof that education does not equal more money. Drive and ambition does. Look at some of the billionaires that never went to college. Education is a tool not a path to more money. To many people are to ignorant to understand that a college education is many time more tools than any of them need. I only buy tools for my tool box that I can use, I only got the level of education that I needed to enter my career. 4 years of college is a waste for probably over 50% of those that graduate. If manufacturing comes back many will need no college. I look at 4 colleges as something that is wanted, not needed and everything that is not needed is a waste.

[marks2065 0]

jakee

Quote

I don't think they are more honest after an election, matter of fact I think they lie more.

So when he's standing up there at the podium, on his victory tour, flat out telling you that he didn't mean the stuff he said during the campaign, and he's not going to do the stuff he promised during the campaign, you'd still rather believe that he's going to follow through on his campaign promises?

You are some kind of special, my friend!

tell me a president that did all what he said he would do! what I hope for is a direction change and the hope the fed gets off our back and out of our pockets some.

[GeorgiaDon 362]

Quote

...something that is wanted, not needed and everything that is not needed is a waste.

Do you consider skydiving a waste? Is music a waste? Is art a waste? Do you personally reject anything that is not necessary to survive? What a boring existence you must lead.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[billvon 2,991]

> Education is a tool not a path to more money.

It is, of course, both.

>To many people are to ignorant to understand that a college education is many
>time more tools than any of them need.

It was, for me, a subset of the tools I needed. (Of course, I am in a profession that requires brainpower.)

> If manufacturing comes back many will need no college.

Manufacturing is never coming back.

>I look at 4 colleges as something that is wanted, not needed and everything that is
>not needed is a waste.

So skydiving, eating meat, SUV's, coal power, nuclear power, private vehicles - all just waste?

[kallend 2,026]

marks2065

*********Hi marks,

Quote

trade school and ambition will always go farther then a 4 year degree.

They may go farther down the road but they will make less money.

Those are simply the facts.



Jerry Baumchen

PS) I come from a very working class family. My brother was a Teamster for over 30 yrs, I'm a Mech. Engr. I left him behind financially many, many years ago.

yes but with the savings on school and the earlier entry into the work force helps make up for the loss later on. Also the drive of the individual will help make it up also. I was way up on earnings on my sister for about 10-12 years before she passed me then I moved up because of desire and passed her again. she has a masters and I have 6 months of trade school. people hold themselves back, not the level of their education. I make more money then over half of the 4 year degree people.

Here are the official BLS stats on average weekly earnings for various levels of education:

Doctoral degree $1,623
Professional degree $1,730
Master's degree $1,341
Bachelor's degree $1,137
Associate's degree $798
Some college, no degree $738
High school diploma $678
Less than a high school diploma $493
All workers $860


Lifetime earnings 25th percentile 75th percentile Average
Less than High School 644,600 1,464,000 819,400
High School Diploma 867,500 1,889,500 1,022,000
Some College/No Degree 1,035,500 2,252,100 1,216,700
Associate’s Degree 1,177,100 2,426,300 1,249,200
Bachelor’s Degree 1,490,600 3,388,700 1,898,100
Master’s Degree 1,864,400 3,835,600 1,971,200
Doctoral Degree 2,150,400 4,743,400 2,592,900
Professional Degree 2,004,600 6,472,800 4,468,200


There is zero chance that even at the 25 percentile of earnings a 4 year college degree costs the 623,000 dollar difference between a High school diploma and a 4 year degree on average. Yes there are a lot of degrees that will not be making the $1100 on average a week such as some of the fringe liberal arts degrees like 15th Century English Lit or Art History but I can say that the first year out of college I and everyone else in my field was making more than the average with our degrees.

As someone that was able to write G code for CNC mills in high school and worked part time as a entry level machinist under someone who completed a full journeyman program in the 80's and is now a retired UAW machinist I can safely say my earnings post degree far our strip what my potential earnings were with that career track. I come from a family that has 3 brothers that all have 35+ years in machining, tool and die work and other skilled trades. None of them have a college degree and make a great living but both my brother and I graduated with 4 year degrees plus technical certifications and started out making more than the others did at their last years towards retirement.


WOW I am only $100 away from a doctor and I only paid 3800 for my trade school!! (and that is after I gave myself a paycut for the bad Obama economy)

Good for you, but when you say "a doctor" do you mean a physician or surgeon, or someone with a PhD in ancient history?

Because an MD would be a "professional degree" in that table.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,026]

marks2065

***

Quote

I don't think they are more honest after an election, matter of fact I think they lie more.

So when he's standing up there at the podium, on his victory tour, flat out telling you that he didn't mean the stuff he said during the campaign, and he's not going to do the stuff he promised during the campaign, you'd still rather believe that he's going to follow through on his campaign promises?

You are some kind of special, my friend!

tell me a president that did all what he said he would do! what I hope for is a direction change and the hope the fed gets off our back and out of our pockets some.

But Trump is still 3 weeks away from becoming president and he's already reneged on a bunch of his promises.

Anyone who thinks that a cabinet full of billionaires, including several with Goldman-Sachs pedigrees, will be looking out for the interests of people like you and me is a special kind of stupid.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.