Russiagate

[billvon 2,998]

And your one warning.

To be clear, this is OK: "Amongst so many other absurd, ignorant and racist things he has written . . ." It is OK to criticize what people SAY.

This is not OK: "Ron does not have a shred of decency." That is a personal attack.

[RonD1120 62]

Phil1111

******I know you can't look into the hearts of other men (except Obama, apparently) but in your opinion was/is Jimmy Carter a good and true Christian?

I believe President Jimmy Carter is a good man and he professees to be a Christian. Only God knows the heart and quality of a good Christian.

The Bible says that to be a Christian you have to believe in faith that 1) Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; 2) Jesus died on the cross as the propitiation of all sin, for all peoples, for all time; 3) Jesus was resurrected from the dead and is available to all who call on Him for salvation. Then you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord you will be saved.

That is it. That is the simple truth.

The Bible also teaches that if a person proclaims they are a Christian we are to accept them as such. We are not to judge their level of faith, their walk or their behavior. We can only examine their fruit of the Holy Spirit and even that is risky. We are only to hold them in prayer.

I thought that that was an excellent question, pertinent, material to the issues. Mr. Carter, IMO is exemplary of what a Christian is. Setting aside the merits of this presidency. Which had the misfortune of the energy crisis, Iran hostage, etc.

As for Ron's answer, I think the Romans are off the road.
https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-10-judged-your-deeds-romans-26-11



This is a little out of my area but, I believe that John 5: 28,29 is referring to what is called The Great White Throne Judgment. That is the second judgment by God where unrepentant sinners are cast into hell for eternity.

The first judgment comes when we meet Jesus the Christ face to face at death of the physical body. True believers are ushered into heaven at that time.

I do not understand the theological differences between the two judgments. That one is for the scholars. I am a counselor only.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kallend 2,027]

RonD1120

********* And you chose to just believe the lies because of your fears.

My fear was that a communist trained socialist and community organizer would become POTUS. And, they came to fruition.

And yet you fully support a con man, thief, liar and sexual predator who has sold out to the Russians.

He was the only one who could beat Hillary. He has never been convicted on any of those alleged charges. Maybe he will, I doubt it. Meanwhile, there he is POTUS.

Lying isn't a crime except under oath. There is overwhelming evidence that Trump lies like an oriental rug. It would, however, be a violation of the Commandments.

Adultery is not a criminal offence either, although it certainly violates the Commandments. There is overwhelming evidence that Trump is a serial adulterer.

Trump is only a Christian when it involves a photo-op. You KNOW this in your heart.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,500]

RonD1120

Let me be perfectly clear. I am a Christian. I voted for Bush, McCain, Romney and Trump. I do not owe anyone an apology for my decisions.

You owe yourself an apology for betraying your religion. Obama has specifically, explicitly and continuously stated that he is a Christian. As you just pointed out, the bible tells you to believe him. Yet you’ve disobeyed the bible, over and over again, because of petty partisan bullshit.

You really don’t actually give a fuck about your religion, do you?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 62]

I know there is no way you can comprehend what I am about to tell you, AEB your long standing opposition to me. However, there is a difference between my personal faith in God through Jesus the Christ and my social/political values. I have attempted to explain that on many occasions.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

kallend

************ And you chose to just believe the lies because of your fears.

My fear was that a communist trained socialist and community organizer would become POTUS. And, they came to fruition.

And yet you fully support a con man, thief, liar and sexual predator who has sold out to the Russians.

He was the only one who could beat Hillary. He has never been convicted on any of those alleged charges. Maybe he will, I doubt it. Meanwhile, there he is POTUS.

Lying isn't a crime except under oath. There is overwhelming evidence that Trump lies like an oriental rug. It would, however, be a violation of the Commandments.

Adultery is not a criminal offence either, although it certainly violates the Commandments. There is overwhelming evidence that Trump is a serial adulterer.

Trump is only a Christian when it involves a photo-op. You KNOW this in your heart.

Maybe yes, maybe no, it does not matter. He is the POTUS, that is what matters. I will evaluate him in 2020.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[gowlerk 2,205]

Quote

However, there is a difference between my personal faith in God through Jesus the Christ and my social/political values. I have attempted to explain that on many occasions.

This would be fine Ron. Except that you often try to justify your political views through your religious beliefs. You are the one who will not separate them in your posts. Unless you are challenged, then you retreat to claiming they are separate. You frequently try to have it both ways. That is why so many people attack your faith. You bring it upon yourself.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[RonD1120 62]

gowlerk

Quote

However, there is a difference between my personal faith in God through Jesus the Christ and my social/political values. I have attempted to explain that on many occasions.

This would be fine Ron. Except that you often try to justify your political views through your religious beliefs. You are the one who will not separate them in your posts. Unless you are challenged, then you retreat to claiming they are separate. You frequently try to have it both ways. That is why so many people attack your faith. You bring it upon yourself.

You may have me there if you can find a quote. However, I do not ever remember justifying my political views by my faith. By saying that God intervened in the election of Donald Trump is not the same as saying he was elected because he was a Christian icon. God allows Satan to generate chaos, see the Book of Job among other OT/NT writings.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

RonD1120

I know there is no way you can comprehend what I am about to tell you, AEB your long standing opposition to me. However, there is a difference between my personal faith in God through Jesus the Christ and my social/political values. I have attempted to explain that on many occasions.

Right. You proclaim your 'righteousness' because of your faith. You proclaim you are 'saved' because of your relationship with Jesus, yet in your social and political values you completely ignore all of that.

You seem to think that how you act in church and in regard to your faith can be completely different from how you treat others and how you act out in the 'real world'.

A good example is the fella that showed up in your church a couple weeks (?) back. The one you though had 'been on the road a while.' You 'interrogated' him, snitched him out to a retired LEO and stood out of his direct line of sight, watching him. Most likely with your hand very close to a gun the entire time.
While a certain level of caution is reasonable, did you ever ask if he was hungry? Did you ask if he had had a chance to bathe recently? If he had a place to rest?
Did you offer him any of these things? Or did you just make it clear he wasn't welcome in your 'enclave' while telling him "welcome to our church'?

It's called being a hypocrite.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[jakee 1,500]

RonD1120

I know there is no way you can comprehend what I am about to tell you, AEB your long standing opposition to me. However, there is a difference between my personal faith in God through Jesus the Christ and my social/political values. I have attempted to explain that on many occasions.

You just said that your beliefs prevent you from judging whether someone who says they are a Christian is actually a Christian or not. You have betrayed those beliefs over and over and over again when it comes to Obama, simply because you don’t like his politics. You have demonstrated time and time again that you religion and politics are in fact fully intertwined, no matter what you try to tell us.

If you think otherwise - it has now been demonstrated to you in this thread that Obama does explicitly claim to be a committed Christian. So will you now retract all your previous comments about him being a possible Muslim and apologise for them?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 2,027]

RonD1120

I know there is no way you can comprehend what I am about to tell you, AEB your long standing opposition to me. However, there is a difference between my personal faith in God through Jesus the Christ and my social/political values. I have attempted to explain that on many occasions.

Jesus (the one described in the Bible) was very clearly a progressive liberal in today's vocabulary, and makes this very obvious in his teachings, especially the Sermon.

You repudiate all those values yet still claim to be a follower. If there really is an afterlife, I expect you will be in for a big surprise.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[gowlerk 2,205]

Quote

You repudiate all those values yet still claim to be a follower. If there really is an afterlife, I expect you will be in for a big surprise.

Perhaps God has "re-education camps" in heaven. For those how meet the technical requirement of accepting Jesus, but need a lot of work still!

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[RonD1120 62]

wolfriverjoe

***I know there is no way you can comprehend what I am about to tell you, AEB your long standing opposition to me. However, there is a difference between my personal faith in God through Jesus the Christ and my social/political values. I have attempted to explain that on many occasions.

Right. You proclaim your 'righteousness' because of your faith. You proclaim you are 'saved' because of your relationship with Jesus, yet in your social and political values you completely ignore all of that.

You seem to think that how you act in church and in regard to your faith can be completely different from how you treat others and how you act out in the 'real world'.

A good example is the fella that showed up in your church a couple weeks (?) back. The one you though had 'been on the road a while.' You 'interrogated' him, snitched him out to a retired LEO and stood out of his direct line of sight, watching him. Most likely with your hand very close to a gun the entire time.
While a certain level of caution is reasonable, did you ever ask if he was hungry? Did you ask if he had had a chance to bathe recently? If he had a place to rest?
Did you offer him any of these things? Or did you just make it clear he wasn't welcome in your 'enclave' while telling him "welcome to our church'?

It's called being a hypocrite.

Oh, such imagination you have. First, I did not snitch him out. I sought one of our church security allies. It is what we do for congregational safety. Second, I did all those things you mentioned. He politely refused all of our well intentioned services. He stated that he had all that he needed. He even refused prayer. He just wanted to attend church and he was welcome to do just that.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

jakee

***I know there is no way you can comprehend what I am about to tell you, AEB your long standing opposition to me. However, there is a difference between my personal faith in God through Jesus the Christ and my social/political values. I have attempted to explain that on many occasions.

You just said that your beliefs prevent you from judging whether someone who says they are a Christian is actually a Christian or not. You have betrayed those beliefs over and over and over again when it comes to Obama, simply because you don’t like his politics. You have demonstrated time and time again that you religion and politics are in fact fully intertwined, no matter what you try to tell us.

If you think otherwise - it has now been demonstrated to you in this thread that Obama does explicitly claim to be a committed Christian. So will you now retract all your previous comments about him being a possible Muslim and apologise for them?

No, because your assessment is not correct. And, I still believe he is a Muslim sympathizer.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

kallend

***I know there is no way you can comprehend what I am about to tell you, AEB your long standing opposition to me. However, there is a difference between my personal faith in God through Jesus the Christ and my social/political values. I have attempted to explain that on many occasions.

Jesus (the one described in the Bible) was very clearly a progressive liberal in today's vocabulary, and makes this very obvious in his teachings, especially the Sermon.

You repudiate all those values yet still claim to be a follower. If there really is an afterlife, I expect you will be in for a big surprise.

I believe what is going to surprise me is seeing who made it and who did not. However, such thoughts of surprise or sorrow are not possible. We will not have any thoughts about our earthly lives. It is another dimension where time and space are one. It is going to be a WOW trip.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[gowlerk 2,205]

Quote

And, I still believe he is a Muslim sympathizer.

And just what is wrong with respecting and/or sympathizing with Muslims. Or Jews. Or Buddhists. Or Sikhs. Or Hindus? I could go on, but I think you can see the point. Just what do you mean when you accuse BHO of being a Muslim sympathizer. It's a very vague term, almost meaningless. Like a dog whistle.

Just exactly what are you saying about BHO in this accusation? Seriously, what does this term mean to you?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[RonD1120 62]

gowlerk

Quote

And, I still believe he is a Muslim sympathizer.

And just what is wrong with respecting and/or sympathizing with Muslims. Or Jews. Or Buddhists. Or Sikhs. Or Hindus? I could go on, but I think you can see the point. Just what do you mean when you accuse BHO of being a Muslim sympathizer. It's a very vague term, almost meaningless. Like a dog whistle.

Just exactly what are you saying about BHO in this accusation? Seriously, what does this term mean to you?

It means I have not gotten over 9-11 yet. Those people came into my country as friends and then attacked us killing more people we lost at Pearl Harbor. It means BHO did not secure our borders while he was in office.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[JerryBaumchen 1,367]

Hi Joe,

Quote

You seem to think that how you act in church and in regard to your faith can be completely different from how you treat others and how you act out in the 'real world'.

60 yrs ago, the preacher in our local church told me this very thing. That is when I gave up on the concept of 'christianity.'

Jerry Baumchen

[gowlerk 2,205]

Quote

It means I have not gotten over 9-11 yet. Those people came into my country as friends and then attacked us killing more people we lost at Pearl Harbor. It means BHO did not secure our borders while he was in office.

But.....Bush was POTUS in 2001. And he made it very clear that it was a war on terror, not a war on Muslims. I'm thinking it is quite likely that because you are against progressives of any kind, you were against BHO. And that is easy to understand. You are a conservative. But that does not make it right to accuse BHO of being a "secret Muslim" which is what conservatives really mean when going after him.

Seriously again, BHO is and was at the time a good and upstanding family man. Someone who always treated his wife and children properly, as well as those around him. Even if you hate his policies can you not respect the man for being a good and decent man? I mean apart from being a liberal.

And while I'm at it, this whole thing about being against progressives. Does that mean you are against progress?

(I know, I'm asking two different unrelated questions here. If you answer them both I will answer some from you. That is if you are curious enough to ask.)

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[jakee 1,500]

RonD1120

It means I have not gotten over 9-11 yet. Those people came into my country as friends and then attacked us killing more people we lost at Pearl Harbor. It means BHO did not secure our borders while he was in office.

9/11, thanks Obama!

Just curious, how much do you hate Bush for not securing your borders in pretty much the same amount of time as Obama had?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[gowlerk 2,205]

Quote

It means I have not gotten over 9-11 yet.

Just so you know you are not alone, and America is not alone, neither have I. No one cheered as loudly as me when Bin Laden was finally killed. And even though BHO was the POTUS who gave the order, I do not credit him for "getting" the bastard. The glory goes to the team.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[JoeWeber 2,726]

RonD1120

******I know there is no way you can comprehend what I am about to tell you, AEB your long standing opposition to me. However, there is a difference between my personal faith in God through Jesus the Christ and my social/political values. I have attempted to explain that on many occasions.

Jesus (the one described in the Bible) was very clearly a progressive liberal in today's vocabulary, and makes this very obvious in his teachings, especially the Sermon.

You repudiate all those values yet still claim to be a follower. If there really is an afterlife, I expect you will be in for a big surprise.

I believe what is going to surprise me is seeing who made it and who did not. However, such thoughts of surprise or sorrow are not possible. We will not have any thoughts about our earthly lives. It is another dimension where time and space are one. It is going to be a WOW trip.

Quote

another dimension where time and space are one"

I knew that when you stepped in it and further revealed your racism by calling that women an "ignorant black", when in fact you were mis-quoting her, that this thread would become most entertaining. Now, we have you establishing that just past the Pearly Gates is a real wowser of a space time continuum. I'm assuming that Minkowski, after reading 2000 year old books written by desert dwellers, gave you the insight.

[RonD1120 62]

gowlerk

Quote

It means I have not gotten over 9-11 yet. Those people came into my country as friends and then attacked us killing more people we lost at Pearl Harbor. It means BHO did not secure our borders while he was in office.

But.....Bush was POTUS in 2001. And he made it very clear that it was a war on terror, not a war on Muslims. I'm thinking it is quite likely that because you are against progressives of any kind, you were against BHO. And that is easy to understand. You are a conservative. But that does not make it right to accuse BHO of being a "secret Muslim" which is what conservatives really mean when going after him.

Seriously again, BHO is and was at the time a good and upstanding family man. Someone who always treated his wife and children properly, as well as those around him. Even if you hate his policies can you not respect the man for being a good and decent man? I mean apart from being a liberal.

And while I'm at it, this whole thing about being against progressives. Does that mean you are against progress?

(I know, I'm asking two different unrelated questions here. If you answer them both I will answer some from you. That is if you are curious enough to ask.)

This is way into rabbit hole tangents. I believe BHO is a strong and good family man.

Progressive liberalism does not support progress as much as it is for power and control over anyone in disagreement. One of the main insidious tactics is to use political correctness as a strategy to create victims. Progressive liberalism is teaching people to identify with victimized minority groups. I do not like what is happening in my country.

I make generalized statements against Muslims. I deal with Muslims empathically on a 1:1 basis. I functioned that way as a substance abuse disorder treatment counselor working with court ordered clients.

If Muhammed moves into my community I will engage him empathically. If he shouts Allahu Akbar in my church I will draw my weapon.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

jakee

***It means I have not gotten over 9-11 yet. Those people came into my country as friends and then attacked us killing more people we lost at Pearl Harbor. It means BHO did not secure our borders while he was in office.

9/11, thanks Obama!

Just curious, how much do you hate Bush for not securing your borders in pretty much the same amount of time as Obama had?

Did you not hear of the Patriot Act. Although now abused, it was at the time a good start.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

gowlerk

Quote

It means I have not gotten over 9-11 yet.

Just so you know you are not alone, and America is not alone, neither have I. No one cheered as loudly as me when Bin Laden was finally killed. And even though BHO was the POTUS who gave the order, I do not credit him for "getting" the bastard. The glory goes to the team.

Amen to that.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.