Russiagate

[rushmc 23]

LeeroyJenkins

Hey rush,

Guess it's time for you to stop supporting trump, or at least question it.

LJ

How's it feel to be wrong again?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Nothing to do with Russia, but the first and second congressmen to support Trump have now both been indicted as well.

Trump has found a way to surround himself with a lot of criminals.

Rush, why can't these people just follow the law?

[kallend 2,106]

SkyDekker

Nothing to do with Russia, but the first and second congressmen to support Trump have now both been indicted as well.

Trump has found a way to surround himself with a lot of criminals.

Rush, why can't these people just follow the law?

We have a phrase to describe people who surround themselves with criminals. MOB BOSS.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[yoink 321]

LeeroyJenkins

Hey rush,

Guess it's time for you to stop supporting trump, or at least question it.

LJ

NEVER going to happen. Not ever. Under no circumstances.

Trump isn’t the only one who can only double-down on a position he’s taken...

[billvon 3,063]

And after Cohen's admission that he was colluding with Trump to try to affect the election, looks like the Trumpies won't be able to say "NO COLLUSION!" any more. They'll have to modify it to something like "NO COLLUSION WITH NATALIA!" or some such.

[yoink 321]

LeeroyJenkins

The first amendment protects against retaliation from the government for protected speech. This retaliation can includes taking things of value. Trump took away something of value from Brennan because of what Brennan said about trump.

It's taken me a few days to get my head around this, and I still struggled with it until I saw the white house response to revoking other peoples security clearances: "because they have politicized and in some cases monetized their public service and security clearances, making baseless accusations of improper contact with Russia or being influenced by Russia" said Sarah Sanders.

I think wolfriverjoe made it clear for me - whether clearance should be revoked once you leave a position could be a discussion for another time, but to specifically target people who disagree with you - well, that's fascism.

If Trump was talking about taking the same action against everyone my opinion wouldn't have changed, but as it is I think you're right. It's probably a first amendment violation.

[LeeroyJenkins 3]

rushmc

***Hey rush,

Guess it's time for you to stop supporting trump, or at least question it.

LJ

How's it feel to be wrong again?

Rush,


I don’t know what you are suggesting I’m wrong about. I stated that you should stick to your word. You said Trump+crime=you supporting his impeachment. I know that won’t happen over night so questioning your loyalty is also acceptable, aka first step in supporting impeachment.

[gowlerk 2,246]

I still don't see any evidence of anything that would justify impeaching the Dotard. Unless you count sheer incompetence. But he was known to be incompetent when he was elected, so that seems unjustified. But he must be going out of his mind tonight. Can't wait to hear about the AM tweets. I really don't think he can take the pressure too much longer.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[LeeroyJenkins 3]

gowlerk

I still don't see any evidence of anything that would justify impeaching the Dotard. Unless you count sheer incompetence. But he was known to be incompetent when he was elected, so that seems unjustified. But he must be going out of his mind tonight. Can't wait to hear about the AM tweets. I really don't think he can take the pressure too much longer.

My comment was directed at Rush, he stated that crimes wold be one reason he would support the impeachment of trump.

That is where we are now, conspiracy to violate campaign finance laws. That may not be the actual crime but it get the point across.

[billvon 3,063]

>I still don't see any evidence of anything that would justify impeaching the Dotard.
>Unless you count sheer incompetence.

Well, and actual crime. He is liable for the same charge that Cohen pled guilty to; I believe the term is "unindicted co-conspirator."

Whether he will be indicted, of course, is a big question. Trump's team has been arguing that it's not possible to indict a president; he has automatic immunity. Of course, that's where impeachment comes in.

That being said, he won't be impeached over this alone. If anything, it will be this plus perjury charges. He will no longer be able to argue "witch hunt!" after this, and will have a much weaker argument against an interview with Mueller.

[kallend 2,106]

billvon

>I still don't see any evidence of anything that would justify impeaching the Dotard.
>Unless you count sheer incompetence.

Well, and actual crime. He is liable for the same charge that Cohen pled guilty to; I believe the term is "unindicted co-conspirator."

Whether he will be indicted, of course, is a big question. Trump's team has been arguing that it's not possible to indict a president; he has automatic immunity. Of course, that's where impeachment comes in.

That being said, he won't be impeached over this alone. If anything, it will be this plus perjury charges. He will no longer be able to argue "witch hunt!" after this, and will have a much weaker argument against an interview with Mueller.

It appears that witch hunts can really turn up witches from time to time.

Tax evasion is theft from the American people. What do we make of the judgment of someone who calls a guy who defrauded the American people out of $millions . . . “a very good person.”

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[gowlerk 2,246]

Quote

He will no longer be able to argue "witch hunt!" after this, and will have a much weaker argument against an interview with Mueller.

He certainly can and he will still call it a witch hunt. It is after all primarily an investigation into Russia's involvement and co-ordination with the campaign. I know that the terms include "other matters as they arise". The fact that they have been able to show that his associates have tax cheats and fraudsters among them will not surprise anyone. I'm still waiting for evidence of significant wrong doing by the leader of the coven. It may come, but it's not here yet.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Phil1111 1,149]

kallend

***>I still don't see any evidence of anything that would justify impeaching the Dotard.
>Unless you count sheer incompetence.

Well, and actual crime. He is liable for the same charge that Cohen pled guilty to; I believe the term is "unindicted co-conspirator."

Whether he will be indicted, of course, is a big question. Trump's team has been arguing that it's not possible to indict a president; he has automatic immunity. Of course, that's where impeachment comes in.

That being said, he won't be impeached over this alone. If anything, it will be this plus perjury charges. He will no longer be able to argue "witch hunt!" after this, and will have a much weaker argument against an interview with Mueller.

It appears that witch hunts can really turn up witches from time to time.

Tax evasion is theft from the American people. What do we make of the judgment of someone who calls a guy who defrauded the American people out of $millions . . . “a very good person.”

mmmm and the reason why trump never released his tax returns.

Cohen has much to tell about trump's crimes. Mueller may know some of them right now. But trump likes to brag, scamming is a way of life for him and his family.

IMO it goes back to what Bannon said when he departed the WH.

Bannon's big reveal in new Trump book is 'all about money laundering'
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-trump-money-laundering-kushner-20180105-story.html

Of course Putin knows all about every transaction as well. Its Russian money.

[yoink 321]

I look forward to seeing what nickname Trump gives Cohen in an upcoming tweet. Something like CrapWeasel Cohen.

[DJL 235]

pchapman

***Ha -- the Fox headline will be something like "Manafort innocent on majority of counts" (because, after all, one is innocent until proven guilty )

I just looked at their website.
To give them their due, it was actually "Manafort found guilty on 8 counts in fraud trial; mistrial declared on others". Not so bad.

But it did come after the headline item about the suspected killer of a young white woman having been caught -- and he's an illegal immigrant. Say what one will about the details, I suppose a murder can take precedence over politicians' white collar crimes.

They're back to barely a mention of it. I guess 12 hours (while Trump was sleeping) was long enough to risk backlash from their target audience (Trump). They're leading with the illegal immigrant murder of Mollie Tibbetts, there's a picture of Manafort and Cohen with an article about GOP midterms, another of Manafort for an article about him being pardoned. That's all, buried in the Times.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[gowlerk 2,246]

Hilarious story about Cohen's feelings:

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/22/640795902/michael-cohens-lawyer-says-hed-never-accept-a-pardon-from-president-trump

He says he would reject a pardon from such a corrupt person as the POTUS.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[wmw999 2,517]

Cohen is so unreliable that he's not really usable as a source; too easy to discredit. Kind of like Omarosa. Because, well, they have the same approach to the truth as the Tweeto-in-chief.
"whatever gets me what I feel I want at this particular moment."

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[JerryBaumchen 1,426]

Hi Wendy,

Quote

Cohen is so unreliable that he's not really usable as a source

I disagree completely with this. Cohen is an attorney, he has probably made most of his income from his law practice.

If any profession truly understands what perjury is & what the consequences are, it is lawyers more than any other profession.

Just my $0.02 on this,

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 3,063]

Quote

If any profession truly understands what perjury is & what the consequences are, it is lawyers more than any other profession.

More to the point, given how much information Mueller has on this case so far, and how much of Cohen's information may come in the form of recordings - it's going to be very hard for him to lie and get away with it.

As an example, consider the prosecutor's statement on two counts against Cohen:
==============================================
With respect to counts seven and eight, as the defendant allocuted, and as detailed in the information filed today, the government would prove that the defendant caused an illegal corporate contribution of $150,000 to be made in coordination with a candidate or campaign for federal office, and also that Mr. Cohen made an excessive contribution of $130,000 in coordination with the campaign or candidate for purposes of influencing the election.

The proof on these counts at trial would establish that these payments were made in order to ensure that each recipient of the payments did not publicize their stories of alleged affairs with the candidate. This evidence would include:

Records obtained from an April 9, 2018 series of search warrants on Mr. Cohen’s premises including hard copy documents, seized electronic devices, and audio recordings made by Mr. Cohen.

We would also offer text messages, messages sent over encrypted applications, phone records, and email.

We would also submit various records produced to us via subpoena, including records from the corporation referenced in the information as Corporation One and records from the media company also referenced in the information.
=============================================

So that's the level of evidence they have in _addition_ to any testimony by Cohen.

Now that he's pled guilty and is awaiting sentencing, he has a strong incentive to cooperate in any way he can.

[rushmc 23]

I know in your mind he's guilty already but, Trump has committed no crime.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

wmw999

Cohen is so unreliable that he's not really usable as a source; too easy to discredit. Kind of like Omarosa. Because, well, they have the same approach to the truth as the Tweeto-in-chief.
"whatever gets me what I feel I want at this particular moment."

Wendy P.

you're right on Wendy. Given that he's given completely opposite stories in the last 2 months it's hard to take anything that he says with anything less than a grain of salt

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[LeeroyJenkins 3]

rushmc

I know in your mind he's guilty already but, Trump has committed no crime.

He isn’t guilty yet but it sure looks like he committed a crime.

[jcd11235 0]

JerryBaumchen

Cohen is an attorney, he has probably made most of his income from his law practice.

It is my understanding that that is not the case, based on the overwhelming majority of the documents seized from his home & office were ultimately found to not be privileged.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[LeeroyJenkins 3]

rushmc

***Cohen is so unreliable that he's not really usable as a source; too easy to discredit. Kind of like Omarosa. Because, well, they have the same approach to the truth as the Tweeto-in-chief.
"whatever gets me what I feel I want at this particular moment."

Wendy P.

you're right on Wendy. Given that he's given completely opposite stories in the last 2 months it's hard to take anything that he says with anything less than a grain of salt

Rush, really? Trump has contradicted himself in the same breath. Do you agree that he is also unreliable?

[kallend 2,106]

rushmc

***Cohen is so unreliable that he's not really usable as a source; too easy to discredit. Kind of like Omarosa. Because, well, they have the same approach to the truth as the Tweeto-in-chief.
"whatever gets me what I feel I want at this particular moment."

Wendy P.

you're right on Wendy. Given that he's given completely opposite stories in the last 2 months it's hard to take anything that he says with anything less than a grain of salt

Kind of like Trump, eh?

Denied any knowledge of the payments of hush money. Got his lackeys to repeat this.

Then just yesterday said the payments came from him.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.