kallend 2,027 #1 March 24, 2017 What an effing embarrassing FIASCO from Trump and Ryan. SEVEN YEARS they've been reflexively opposing the ACA but have zip with which to replace it. What a bunch of clueless idiots... (And that goes for the people who believed their scam and voted for them, too). What must the leaders of other nations be thinking of the US government?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 800 #2 March 24, 2017 All the keys to the kingdom and they cannot remove their heads from their asses to do anything. Unbelievable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #3 March 24, 2017 kallend What an effing embarrassing FIASCO from Trump and Ryan. SEVEN YEARS they've been reflexively opposing the ACA but have zip with which to replace it. What a bunch of clueless idiots... (And that goes for the people who believed their scam and voted for them, too). What must the leaders of other nations be thinking of the US government? The other leaders? Depends on thier political color .... I think most just enjoyed trump's failure, his 3rd ...? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 800 #4 March 24, 2017 He's 0-5 in courts so far. I counted this as 6 I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,149 #5 March 24, 2017 Its a good day for America. 24 million will still have coverage. Nothing is going to explode. Somebody was looking after the weak, the vulnerable, the sick, the poor and the injured. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q65KZIqay4E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #6 March 24, 2017 Funny thing is he called both the Failing New York Times, and the Failing Washington Post immediately afterward: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/24/us/politics/donald-trump-health-care.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/president-trump-called-my-cellphone-to-say-that-the-health-care-bill-was-dead/2017/03/24/8282c3f6-10ce-11e7-9b0d-d27c98455440_story.html"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #7 March 24, 2017 normiss He's 0-5 in courts so far. I counted this as 6 I think. Thx. Not bad for a beginner ... dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #8 March 25, 2017 This is amusing: But throughout the negotiations, the president displayed a stunning lack of interest for the underlying policy, and an artless hand in trying to strike a deal. He seemed desperate to pass something, really – anything. The effort came up empty. Paul Ryan reportedly alerted the White House near mid-day that he lacked the votes to carry the day. The president reportedly insisted that House members walk the plank – and stage a vote for the doomed bill anyway. Even former Speaker Newt Gingrich couldn't refrain from underscoring the idiocy of that plan, tweeting, "Why would you schedule a vote on a bill that is at 17% approval?" Source: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/rip-trumpcare-how-the-health-care-bill-crashed-and-burned-w473610"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,191 #9 March 25, 2017 The effort was doomed from the start. Just look at all the time and work it took to pass the ACA. The Rs had to make some kind of attempt at repeal because of all the rage they have expended at Obamacare. But none of them were willing to to the work or pay the price that real reform would take. What will happen now is an expansion of Medicare into the red states that resisted it. They will no longer be able to leave the federal dollars on the table. The present plan is not not really sustainable, so it will be patched up and continue to limp along and evolve. The US political scene now has a new third rail to replace Social Security.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #10 March 25, 2017 gowlerkThe effort was doomed from the start. Just look at all the time and work it took to pass the ACA. The Rs had to make some kind of attempt at repeal because of all the rage they have expended at Obamacare. But none of them were willing to to the work or pay the price that real reform would take. What will happen now is an expansion of Medicare into the red states that resisted it. They will no longer be able to leave the federal dollars on the table. The present plan is not not really sustainable, so it will be patched up and continue to limp along and evolve. The US political scene now has a new third rail to replace Social Security. I think you mean Medicaid."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #11 March 25, 2017 Phil1111Its a good day for America. 24 million will still have coverage. Nothing is going to explode. Somebody was looking after the weak, the vulnerable, the sick, the poor and the injured. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q65KZIqay4E Everything is relative. A lady in my church, not 65 yet, has to pay almost $500/mo and has very high copays for her health care. But, she will die soon so it all balances economically.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #12 March 25, 2017 Probably the best outcome for the Rs. This puts the ownership of Obamacare back into the lap of the Dems. The Republicans should not lay a glove on Obamacare until it's inevitable collapse. Until then they will be able to use it a a cudgel to beat Dems in election after election. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #13 March 25, 2017 So what you are saying is that she has health insurance....not sure why then you think she will die soon.... Oh that's right, your view of reality is far different from most.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #14 March 25, 2017 From the beginning I felt it was a stepping stone to single payer. Terribly difficult to take away the pacifier once it's been given. Nice to see so many here excited about Trump's failure to repeal ACA. Let's see how excited taxpayers are when the penalty for not having insurance starts to get real. The fee for not having health insurance in 2016 & 2017 The fee is calculated 2 different ways – as a percentage of your household income, and per person. You’ll pay whichever is higher. Percentage of income 2.5% of household income Maximum: Total yearly premium for the national average price of a Bronze plan sold through the Marketplace Per person $695 per adult $347.50 per child under 18 Maximum: $2,085Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MajorDad 0 #15 March 25, 2017 brenthutchProbably the best outcome for the Rs. This puts the ownership of Obamacare back into the lap of the Dems. The Republicans should not lay a glove on Obamacare until it's inevitable collapse. Until then they will be able to use it a a cudgel to beat Dems in election after election. This is a very Passive Aggressive way to govern. The Republicans control all the levers of power in the US (President, Senate and Congress). They have to F'n GOVERN! This is like moving into a house and not doing any maintenance on a house for year after year after year. Then blaming the former owner of the house for the sad shape the house is in... Elections have consequences and the vacuum being created by the US navel gazing and infighting will be filled by others. Good luck! Major Dad CSPA D-579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #16 March 25, 2017 MajorDad***Probably the best outcome for the Rs. This puts the ownership of Obamacare back into the lap of the Dems. The Republicans should not lay a glove on Obamacare until it's inevitable collapse. Until then they will be able to use it a a cudgel to beat Dems in election after election. This is a very Passive Aggressive way to govern. I agree, but when side wants more government and the other side wants less, compromise looks a lot like gridlock. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,149 #17 March 25, 2017 brenthutch******Probably the best outcome for the Rs. This puts the ownership of Obamacare back into the lap of the Dems. The Republicans should not lay a glove on Obamacare until it's inevitable collapse. Until then they will be able to use it a a cudgel to beat Dems in election after election. This is a very Passive Aggressive way to govern. I agree, but when side wants more government and the other side wants less, compromise looks a lot like gridlock. It should always be smart government to deliver the most cost effective solutions to all the people. Why has trump not gone after US drug companies. How they use the statements that research in the US justifies outrageous drug prices. That US prices are 3-4 times higher than New Zealand for the same drug. He has made statements to such effect many times. Or is it that lobbyists and the Washington swamp has already led trump's morals astray? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 800 #18 March 25, 2017 Is that the penalty that POTUS45 signed an order to not enforce? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #19 March 25, 2017 Phil1111 Why has trump not gone after US drug companies. How they use the statements that research in the US justifies outrageous drug prices. That US prices are 3-4 times higher than New Zealand for the same drug. He has made statements to such effect many times. Or is it that lobbyists and the Washington swamp has already led trump's morals astray? Kind of hard to lead a non-existent attribute astray."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #20 March 25, 2017 airdvrFrom the beginning I felt it was a stepping stone to single payer. Of course it is. Once people realise that letting poor people see doctors who don't work in the ER isn't the same as living under Lenin they'll start wanting to implement socialised healthcare the sensible way. Quote Terribly difficult to take away the pacifier once it's been given. Sure, because a pacifier is to a baby what chemo drugs are to a cancer patient. Nice analogy. Classy.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nolhtairt 0 #21 March 25, 2017 RonD1120***Its a good day for America. 24 million will still have coverage. Nothing is going to explode. Somebody was looking after the weak, the vulnerable, the sick, the poor and the injured. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q65KZIqay4E Everything is relative. A lady in my church, not 65 yet, has to pay almost $500/mo and has very high copays for her health care. But, she will die soon so it all balances economically. Not 65 yet, but you say she's going to die soon? Of what? Women can easily live another 25-30 years from age 65 with good health. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 800 #22 March 25, 2017 Maybe their god just wants her to die. He does that to millions of poor babies every year. Loving god and all that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #23 March 25, 2017 nolhtairt******Its a good day for America. 24 million will still have coverage. Nothing is going to explode. Somebody was looking after the weak, the vulnerable, the sick, the poor and the injured. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q65KZIqay4E Everything is relative. A lady in my church, not 65 yet, has to pay almost $500/mo and has very high copays for her health care. But, she will die soon so it all balances economically. Not 65 yet, but you say she's going to die soon? Of what? Women can easily live another 25-30 years from age 65 with good health. If she is paying $500 a month for a marketplace plan then she either has selected a Silver or Gold plan and is making more than 4 times the federal poverty level ($11,770) aka at least 50k per year. I just ran the numbers and via a marketplace plan a single female at age 60 making $47000 a year qualifies for a $229 credit per month. Plan options include: $432 a month for a $3500 deduct able with Max out of Pocket at $7100. Dr Copays are $30. If max out of pocket is met her total deductions for the year will result in almost no federal income tax being paid. $438 with a $6500 deduct able and max out of pocket of $7100. Co pays are $35 but lower ER copays. Once again if max out of pocket is met her federal tax liability will be nearly 0 so she would get a large refund back. If her income level was double that at 90,000 her costs go up about $230 a month. Under the recently failed Trumpcare her premiums were expected to start at 800 a month and potentially go to 1100 a month since it removed the multiplier on the difference between the lowest risk group (young healthy 20 somethings) and the more expensive groups (older 60+). Right now there was a cap in place that basically raised the prices on the young enrolled to allow the older participants prices to be lowered. That cap was going to be eliminated so that the young persons price would drop and the older persons would rise.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,191 #24 March 25, 2017 America seems confused. Healthcare providers serve people. Insurance companies serve themselves. It is necessary to have insurance providers because they provide some accountability and control on costs. But every dollar spent on them is a dollar not being used for healthcare. They need to as small and efficient as possible if you want a cost effective system. That is the strength of single payer. America will never get to that. So it needs to find some other way of reigning in the insurance industry. The ACA does that somewhat, but needs to do more. In the end you will have a modified two or three tier system combining Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance. The private providers will need to lower their costs to compete with the public sector providers.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #25 March 25, 2017 PhreeZone*********Its a good day for America. 24 million will still have coverage. Nothing is going to explode. Somebody was looking after the weak, the vulnerable, the sick, the poor and the injured. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q65KZIqay4E Everything is relative. A lady in my church, not 65 yet, has to pay almost $500/mo and has very high copays for her health care. But, she will die soon so it all balances economically. Not 65 yet, but you say she's going to die soon? Of what? Women can easily live another 25-30 years from age 65 with good health. If she is paying $500 a month for a marketplace plan then she either has selected a Silver or Gold plan and is making more than 4 times the federal poverty level ($11,770) aka at least 50k per year. I just ran the numbers and via a marketplace plan a single female at age 60 making $47000 a year qualifies for a $229 credit per month. Plan options include: $432 a month for a $3500 deduct able with Max out of Pocket at $7100. Dr Copays are $30. If max out of pocket is met her total deductions for the year will result in almost no federal income tax being paid. $438 with a $6500 deduct able and max out of pocket of $7100. Co pays are $35 but lower ER copays. Once again if max out of pocket is met her federal tax liability will be nearly 0 so she would get a large refund back. If her income level was double that at 90,000 her costs go up about $230 a month. Under the recently failed Trumpcare her premiums were expected to start at 800 a month and potentially go to 1100 a month since it removed the multiplier on the difference between the lowest risk group (young healthy 20 somethings) and the more expensive groups (older 60+). Right now there was a cap in place that basically raised the prices on the young enrolled to allow the older participants prices to be lowered. That cap was going to be eliminated so that the young persons price would drop and the older persons would rise. Ron doesn't need mere facts when he has his invisible friend to tell him what's what. He has told us on more than one occasion that he doesn't value facts when they conflict with his beliefs.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
