Unemployment & the Future

[Phil1111 1,149]

SkyDekker

***Depends, too, on how that average is spread out. If it's too polarized on top, there'll be an increasingly profitable and innovative luxury market, and a lower end market with no thought, and the competition is for who HAS to serve it, not who gets to.

Wendy P.

That trend has been evident for some time now. The two retail sectors performing well are:

1. Luxury, expensive.
2. Cheap.

Everything in the middle is getting absolutely decimated.

Thats not necessarily true. Many luxury items are merely mid class items with a higher polish. My nephew wants to buy a Land Rover and a friend has one. I suggested a Honda Pilot or similar product from Toyota. The horror stories of the cost of installing a hitch on a Land Rover. $1300 US at a dealer for the receiver alone. Electrical problems and land Rovers are synonymous.

The auto sector is the best counter argument to your suggestion. NAFTA has allowed the upgrading of all North American auto production features over the last 20 years. Every year more features are added yet prices remain pretty constant. You can buy a starter Nissan four door car with auto and A/C cheap. Nissan is a decent car, safe and with excellent product support.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/08/31/cheapest-car-us-2017-may-surprise-you/89588476/

[billvon 2,991]

>The auto sector is the best counter argument to your suggestion.

While I agree, I would argue that much of that is artificial, caused by ever-tightening safety, efficiency and emissions laws. You simply could not build a VW Bug today and have it pass crash testing, for example - so even the worst cars out there are pretty good today (where "good" = efficient, safe, clean, acceptable handling/braking etc.)

If the auto industry was unregulated I think you'd see more of the division Dekker was talking about - a lot of VW Bugs for $4000 and a lot of Land Rover types for $60,000.

[Phil1111 1,149]

Here it is:
http://nano.tatamotors.com/price-list.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Nano

Thats $3499 USD in New Delhi at retail. Now add say $1000 for self driving. Then it should be an ideal vehicle for elderly people that want to get around and cant get a drivers license.It currently gets 55 mpg and Tata Nano Diesel may get as much as 70 miles per gallon.

Probably safer than a crotch rocket.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

billvon

>The auto sector is the best counter argument to your suggestion.

While I agree, I would argue that much of that is artificial, caused by ever-tightening safety, efficiency and emissions laws. You simply could not build a VW Bug today and have it pass crash testing, for example - so even the worst cars out there are pretty good today (where "good" = efficient, safe, clean, acceptable handling/braking etc.)

If the auto industry was unregulated I think you'd see more of the division Dekker was talking about - a lot of VW Bugs for $4000 and a lot of Land Rover types for $60,000.

A new car already being a luxury.

But yes, the auto industry is shielded from this due to it already being a luxury and a very regulated market.

But even in the car industry you see this dumbbell effect. With luxury and cheap doing well and the middle struggling.

[brenthutch 444]

SkyDekker

***>The auto sector is the best counter argument to your suggestion.

While I agree, I would argue that much of that is artificial, caused by ever-tightening safety, efficiency and emissions laws. You simply could not build a VW Bug today and have it pass crash testing, for example - so even the worst cars out there are pretty good today (where "good" = efficient, safe, clean, acceptable handling/braking etc.)

If the auto industry was unregulated I think you'd see more of the division Dekker was talking about - a lot of VW Bugs for $4000 and a lot of Land Rover types for $60,000.

A new car already being a luxury.

But yes, the auto industry is shielded from this due to it already being a luxury and a very regulated market.

But even in the car industry you see this dumbbell effect. With luxury and cheap doing well and the middle struggling.

??? The Toyota Camry is the top selling car in the US. It doesn't get much more middle than that.

“It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”
RWR

[Niki1 1]

SkyDekker

Quote

I disagree. Capitalism is littered with junk companies that tried to produce products the mainstream couldn't afford.

Affordability isn't the issue really. The problem won't be companies not being able to exist. The problem is that you will have a very large part of your society without any purpose or function.

What happens when people have limited income and no purpose......

How is the population rate doing? I should think it's going down. The baby boomers are starting to die off so that may "reduce the surplus population".
I've only seen the trailers for the movie franchize "The Purge" but it seems like things may be ripe for something like that in 10 or 15 years. Darwin is still alive and well. I'll be gone by then, one way or the other.

Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis

Where are we going and why are we in this basket?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

??? The Toyota Camry is the top selling car in the US. It doesn't get much more middle than that.

A car is already a luxury item.

Plus the F150, RAM Trucks and Chevy Trucks all sold more units than the Camry.

Corolla was also down almost 10%.

The bifurcation in retail is definitely happening. It may help you too look at a grander scale and not just at one line of luxury items.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

SkyDekker

Quote

??? The Toyota Camry is the top selling car in the US. It doesn't get much more middle than that.

A car is already a luxury item.

Plus the F150, RAM Trucks and Chevy Trucks all sold more units than the Camry.

Corolla was also down almost 10%.

The bifurcation in retail is definitely happening. It may help you too look at a grander scale and not just at one line of luxury items.

Well, at least here in the US, a car is virtually a necessity. I know a few people who don't own cars, but the number is small. Probably bigger in large urban areas with decent mass transit, but short of that, it's very difficult to live without a car.

A new car, however, is most definitely a luxury. My last 4 cars were used. All together, they cost less than the new car I bought in 97.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[brenthutch 444]

SkyDekker

Quote

??? The Toyota Camry is the top selling car in the US. It doesn't get much more middle than that.

A car is already a luxury item.

Plus the F150, RAM Trucks and Chevy Trucks all sold more units than the Camry.

Corolla was also down almost 10%.



The bifurcation in retail is definitely happening. It may help you too look at a grander scale and not just at one line of luxury items.

I was replying to your comment about the CAR industry. BTW the trucks you mentioned are also in the middle of the price spectrum. FYI the Corolla is at a lower end of the price spectrum. I find it amusing that you provide the data that refutes your own point.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

brenthutch

***

Quote

??? The Toyota Camry is the top selling car in the US. It doesn't get much more middle than that.

A car is already a luxury item.

Plus the F150, RAM Trucks and Chevy Trucks all sold more units than the Camry.

Corolla was also down almost 10%.



The bifurcation in retail is definitely happening. It may help you too look at a grander scale and not just at one line of luxury items.

I was replying to your comment about the CAR industry. BTW the trucks you mentioned are also in the middle of the price spectrum. FYI the Corolla is at a lower end of the price spectrum. I find it amusing that you provide the data that refutes your own point.

As said before, trends in one line don't negate trends in an industry.

As pointed out and clarified in the comment above new cars are a luxury item to begin with. Saying that since the middle of a line of a luxury item is doing well is evidence there is no bifurcation in retail is not valid.

[brenthutch 444]

You brought up cars as an example of your "dumbbell effect" not me. I would point out that the least expensive cars are not even close to being top sellers. Oh and the most expensive cars are not even close to being top sellers. IOW you could not be more wrong. Getting a jump on the legal weed up there?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

brenthutch

You brought up cars as an example of your "dumbbell effect" not me. I would point out that the least expensive cars are not even close to being top sellers. Oh and the most expensive cars are not even close to being top sellers. IOW you could not be more wrong. Getting a jump on the legal weed up there?

Uhm, no I didn't. This was my post:

Quote

That trend has been evident for some time now. The two retail sectors performing well are:

1. Luxury, expensive.
2. Cheap.

Everything in the middle is getting absolutely decimated.

Car or automobile isn't even close to being mentioned.

IOW you could not be more wrong.

[brenthutch 444]

SkyDekker

***You brought up cars as an example of your "dumbbell effect" not me. I would point out that the least expensive cars are not even close to being top sellers. Oh and the most expensive cars are not even close to being top sellers. IOW you could not be more wrong. Getting a jump on the legal weed up there?

Uhm, no I didn't. This was my post:

Quote

That trend has been evident for some time now. The two retail sectors performing well are:

1. Luxury, expensive.
2. Cheap.

Everything in the middle is getting absolutely decimated.

Car or automobile isn't even close to being mentioned.

IOW you could not be more wrong.

Who wrote,

"But even in the car industry you see this dumbbell effect. With luxury and cheap doing well and the middle struggling"?

[sonnyblu 0]

brenthutch

******You brought up cars as an example of your "dumbbell effect" not me. I would point out that the least expensive cars are not even close to being top sellers. Oh and the most expensive cars are not even close to being top sellers. IOW you could not be more wrong. Getting a jump on the legal weed up there?

Uhm, no I didn't. This was my post:

Quote

That trend has been evident for some time now. The two retail sectors performing well are:

1. Luxury, expensive.
2. Cheap.

Everything in the middle is getting absolutely decimated.

Car or automobile isn't even close to being mentioned.

IOW you could not be more wrong.

Who wrote:

"But even in the car industry you see this dumbbell effect. With luxury and cheap doing well and the middle struggling"

It must be the good shit. . .

[jakee 1,490]

sonnyblu

It must be the good shit. . .

You and Brent must both have a good supply.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[brenthutch 444]

Given how often it happens, one would think you guys would be able to take "being wrong" with a bit more grace.

[jakee 1,490]

brenthutch

Given how often it happens, one would think you guys would be able to take "being wrong" with a bit more grace.

Funny, I am entirely unsurprised at how badly you're taking being wrong in this case.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

brenthutch

******You brought up cars as an example of your "dumbbell effect" not me. I would point out that the least expensive cars are not even close to being top sellers. Oh and the most expensive cars are not even close to being top sellers. IOW you could not be more wrong. Getting a jump on the legal weed up there?

Uhm, no I didn't. This was my post:

Quote

That trend has been evident for some time now. The two retail sectors performing well are:

1. Luxury, expensive.
2. Cheap.

Everything in the middle is getting absolutely decimated.

Car or automobile isn't even close to being mentioned.

IOW you could not be more wrong.

Who wrote,

"But even in the car industry you see this dumbbell effect. With luxury and cheap doing well and the middle struggling"?

I wrote that after somebody else brought up the car industry as an example against my statement of bifurcation in the retail industry.

Try and read those words carefully and try and figure out how that means I didn't bring up cars as an example to support my statement.

[normiss 801]

Weak reading comprehension and never being wrong seem to be entwined traits for some here.

[brenthutch 444]

You may not have brought it up initially but,

"But even in the car industry you see this dumbbell effect. With luxury and cheap doing well and the middle struggling."

Are YOUR words. Since I am having trouble, why don't you break it down for me and explain what
"But even in the car industry you see this dumbbell effect. With luxury and cheap doing well and the middle struggling."
Means.

Or better yet admit that it was a stupid example who's facts are at complete odds with the point you were trying to make.

[Channman 2]

JerryBaumchen

Hi folks,

This is a little late, but I came across this article recently & found it to be an interesting read:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/when-robots-take-jobs-remember-luddites-180961423/

It begins with:

"Is a robot coming for your job? The odds are high, according to recent economic analyses. Indeed, fully 47 percent of all U.S. jobs will be automated “in a decade or two,” as the tech-employment scholars Carl Frey and Michael Osborne have predicted. That’s because artificial intelligence and robotics are becoming so good that nearly any routine task could soon be automated. Robots and AI are already whisking products around Amazon’s huge shipping centers, diagnosing lung cancer more accurately than humans and writing sports stories for newspapers."

Jerry Baumchen

I suppose as technology progresses it's natural to look for more efficient methods to perform a task. It use to take years to build a railroad, but with technology the time has been substantially reduced. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwiNaHmOscU

But it also opens up engineering/designer positions, technicians and fabrication to produce such machinery and mechanics to maintain it to computer programmers. So one has to evolve and seek additional training to keep up.

[jakee 1,490]

brenthutch

You may not have brought it up initially

So you can see that you were wrong.

So why drag out the stupid pissing match? So that people can see that you were wrong and too proud to admit it? You think that's a better image?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

You brought up cars as an example of your "dumbbell effect" not me

Quote

You may not have brought it up initially

Quote

Or better yet admit that it was a stupid

Indeed.

[DJL 235]

brenthutch

You may not have brought it up initially but,

"But even in the car industry you see this dumbbell effect. With luxury and cheap doing well and the middle struggling."

Are YOUR words. Since I am having trouble, why don't you break it down for me and explain what
"But even in the car industry you see this dumbbell effect. With luxury and cheap doing well and the middle struggling."
Means.

Or better yet admit that it was a stupid example who's facts are at complete odds with the point you were trying to make.

Out of curiosity are we trying to apply the bell curve or the dumbbell as our graphical explanation?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[brenthutch 444]

Just because you were parroting something stupid, does not make your remarks less so.