Sarin Gas blame game...

[SkyDekker 1,465]

nolhtairt

I suppose one could say that the liberals just had their argument of Trump and Putin being buddies TOMAHAWKED.

Russia was aware of the strike in advance.

Russia further has the ability to counter a missile attack in Syria, but chose not to do so at all.

[jakee 1,490]

nolhtairt

I suppose one could say that the liberals just had their argument of Trump and Putin being buddies TOMAHAWKED.

I dunno, in terms of relationship problems lobbing a few missiles at Russia's tenuous 'ally' Syria is kinda like tickling someone after they told you to stop.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,991]

Quote

I dunno, in terms of relationship problems lobbing a few missiles at Russia's tenuous 'ally' Syria is kinda like tickling someone after they told you to stop.

We know that the administration is currently having panic attacks over all the Trump-Putin connections the investigation is uncovering - and with all the resignations, recusals and staff shakeups over the Russian connection, they very much need to make it look like there's no connection while there's still time. This was a perfect opportunity to make a show of force to "prove" that there's no connection.

[headoverheels 333]

billvon

Quote

I dunno, in terms of relationship problems lobbing a few missiles at Russia's tenuous 'ally' Syria is kinda like tickling someone after they told you to stop.

We know that the administration is currently having panic attacks over all the Trump-Putin connections the investigation is uncovering - and with all the resignations, recusals and staff shakeups over the Russian connection, they very much need to make it look like there's no connection while there's still time. This was a perfect opportunity to make a show of force to "prove" that there's no connection.

The Russian video of the supposedly post-attack status of the airport shows no damage to the runways or structures -- what did we supposedly hit?

[Blacksmith311 0]

And there it is folks. The lefts explanation that goes between the two above thought processes.

[ryoder 1,590]

billvon

Quote

I dunno, in terms of relationship problems lobbing a few missiles at Russia's tenuous 'ally' Syria is kinda like tickling someone after they told you to stop.

We know that the administration is currently having panic attacks over all the Trump-Putin connections the investigation is uncovering - and with all the resignations, recusals and staff shakeups over the Russian connection, they very much need to make it look like there's no connection while there's still time. This was a perfect opportunity to make a show of force to "prove" that there's no connection.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/07/syrian-jets-take-off-from-air-base-us-missiles-struck-syrian-observatory.html

WTF???
They left the runways usable???
I thought the first objective of hitting an airbase was to destroy runways, leaving a/c trapped on the ground, even if they were airworthy.
Now I'm wondering if the whole thing was a just a PR stunt.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ryoder 1,590]

This is interesting;
Bannon opposed the Syria attack: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/04/trumps-syria-strike-is-sign-of-bannons-waning-influence.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

ryoder

***

Quote

I dunno, in terms of relationship problems lobbing a few missiles at Russia's tenuous 'ally' Syria is kinda like tickling someone after they told you to stop.

We know that the administration is currently having panic attacks over all the Trump-Putin connections the investigation is uncovering - and with all the resignations, recusals and staff shakeups over the Russian connection, they very much need to make it look like there's no connection while there's still time. This was a perfect opportunity to make a show of force to "prove" that there's no connection.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/07/syrian-jets-take-off-from-air-base-us-missiles-struck-syrian-observatory.html

WTF???
They left the runways usable???
I thought the first objective of hitting an airbase was to destroy runways, leaving a/c trapped on the ground, even if they were airworthy.
Now I'm wondering if the whole thing was a just a PR stunt.

Syrian aircraft just ran bombjng missions from that airport.

It was all just a dog and pony show.

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

Hi Sky,

Quote

It was all just a dog and pony show.

Isn't that what he is all about?

Jerry Baumchen

[tkhayes 348]

Blacksmith311

The American liberals are really caught up on this one. Do we stick with the narrative that President Trump is a puppet of the Russian state, or go with the narrative that the above is incorrect and he is trying to start WWIII with them.

I do not think that 'liberals' are caught up at all. It is not a 'liberal view' that Trump is a puppet of the Russians.

That is a fringe view, I am not familiar with. And promoting that theory sounds like a conservative fringe view as well.

The mainstream view, both conservative and liberal is that Putin did not want Hillary in, that he put up a well-constructed fake news campaign and hacker style attacks to help that happen.

And that some of (at least) Trump's campaign people were quite likely aware of and assisting in that work.

And those are actually crimes and 'liberals' and some conservatives would like investigated.

Going the extra step to state that liberals think Putin is controlling the US government actually shows a level of ignorance and paranoia on the conservative side....akin to the 'liberal puppet govt theory'

I think most of the USA is glad that Trump is doing something in Syria, most wish Obama did as well, but this is not 'Obama's' call, he specifically asked Congress for resolutions and discussion and was shut down.

Not the fault of Obama, but the fault of the dysfunctional congress we have had for some decades now. It is not the President's fault when congress openly committed to making sure Obama never got anything done.

and I expect most of the USA, while appreciative of action in Syria, has no clue what happens next, whether or not the Russians were forewarned of the attack, whether or not this will start a war, whether we will put boots on the ground or how the rest of the world will respond, or whether this will make any shred of difference in the conflict.

and I expect Trump does not know that either...because he's a fucking idiot. throw enough darts at a dartboard and you are bound to get a bullseye eventually. Good for Trump, he's still a fucking idiot.

i am putting my money on "this will have little effect on the conflict but might stop whomever from using Sarin gas for a couple more years". In other words, we are just fine with hundreds of thousands of people dying at the hands of conventional weapons, but not OK with nerve agents..... But I am also not willing to wage another trillion dollar war just so Trump and Putin can wag their tiny penises at each other.

[ryoder 1,590]

SkyDekker

Syrian aircraft just ran bombing missions from that airport.

It was all just a dog and pony show.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Phil1111 1,149]

I agree on the issues of expensive military entanglements an most of what you said. More than expense is the cost of lives. More and more I see the effectiveness of sanctions and other international collaborative efforts. Unfortunately as you state trump is an idiot, can't seem to grasp the ideas that allies and organizations like NATO, the EU, etc. can counter the morass of the UN.

For trump the military and its capabilities can be a crutch for trump. Like a EO trump can give an order and off goes the missiles. Unlike trump Putin is very smart and very calculating. But he is not impulsive. Seldom reactionary.

Because China and Russia have veto rights at the UN security council. Controlling Putin is impossible there. But with a little imagination his expansionist ideas on Ukraine, Syria and in E. Europe can be contained. Someone will need to lead trump on these issues. Kushner?

I also agree with your "we are just fine with hundreds of thousands of people dying at the hands of conventional weapons, but not OK with nerve agents". Russia has been using white phosphorus cluster munitions. Which is a violation of treaty. But whats the real difference between children gassed and children slowly suffocated over a couple days under floors of collapsed concrete. In a hospital bombed by Syrian and Russian aircraft?

Its very disconcerting in a way to see the idiot bannon shuffled to the sidelines and talk of Priebus having lessor influence. If they go, almost for certain trump will last four years.

Finally, without sidetracking this tread too much. But dealing with the divisions of congress and the US government. There was a little nuclear war. Its odd that nuclear war was sidetracked by trump's actions on a little airbase in Syria. But thats how trump operates.

Lindsay Graham is the person responsible for Neil McGill Gorsuch getting confirmed. Not like trump would give him credit for that. Graham organized the block of the Democrats SC nominee. A book entitled "The Future of Assisted Suicide" spells out whats in store for the US SC. The book was written by Gorsuch.

In it, he writes about the absolute sanctity of life. Conservative lawyers are scouring the dockets now to find a case to reverse Roe v. Wade. Dems, meanwhile plot revenge. For certain US politics will see partisanship like never before.

[kallend 2,027]

SkyDekker

******

Quote

I dunno, in terms of relationship problems lobbing a few missiles at Russia's tenuous 'ally' Syria is kinda like tickling someone after they told you to stop.

We know that the administration is currently having panic attacks over all the Trump-Putin connections the investigation is uncovering - and with all the resignations, recusals and staff shakeups over the Russian connection, they very much need to make it look like there's no connection while there's still time. This was a perfect opportunity to make a show of force to "prove" that there's no connection.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/07/syrian-jets-take-off-from-air-base-us-missiles-struck-syrian-observatory.html

WTF???
They left the runways usable???
I thought the first objective of hitting an airbase was to destroy runways, leaving a/c trapped on the ground, even if they were airworthy.
Now I'm wondering if the whole thing was a just a PR stunt.

Syrian aircraft just ran bombjng missions from that airport.

It was all just a dog and pony show.

The MiGs and Sukhois that the Syrian Air Force and the Russians use are designed to operate from unimproved surfaces. For example, they have FOD screens on the engine intakes for take-off and landing.

Hence it's difficult to deny them runways with runway cratering munitions.

As far as aircraft destroyed - one would *assume* that standard dispersal procedures would be in use on any military airfield used by the Russians. It's not like they are a bunch of bumbling amateurs at this stuff - they too learned the lesson of Pearl Harbor at the same time we did.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Great, so this "retaliation" had absolutely no effect and didn't alter or affect the Syrian/Russian capabilities.

Sounds bigly effective. Winning.

I believe there is another term for blustering and grandstanding with no effect.....dog and pony show.

[Phil1111 1,149]

Well it cost 76 million US.
It delivered over 29 tons of explosive.
It was a airbase with Russians on it.

It was intended to send a political message. That US existing policy under Obama was over.

It was delivered in a relatively short time frame from the gas attack. Without any substantive open dialog, posturing, etc.

It confirms that trump is impulsive. lacks a coherent political end game, or objective.

It probably pissed off his political base, of US first non-interventionist, anti-global thunkers!! Hurrah!!

[airdvr 210]

SkyDekker

Great, so this "retaliation" had absolutely no effect and didn't alter or affect the Syrian/Russian capabilities.

Sounds bigly effective. Winning.

I believe there is another term for blustering and grandstanding with no effect.....dog and pony show.

Your over-simplification is astounding. The effect of this was worldwide. It gives notice to Putin, to Jong-Un, and all the state sponsors of terrorism. There's a new sheriff in town.

I know you don't agree with this assessment. I've always believed that projecting weakness invites attack.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[ryoder 1,590]

Phil1111

It probably pissed off his political base, of US first non-interventionist, anti-global thunkers!! Hurrah!!

Oh, yeah!
Just go take a look at Ann Coulters Twitter feed since then.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Phil1111 1,149]

ryoder

***
It probably pissed off his political base, of US first non-interventionist, anti-global thunkers!! Hurrah!!

Oh, yeah!
Just go take a look at Ann Coulters Twitter feed since then.

OK... I did, THANKS
"There are nearly 50k comments on this @BreitbartNews story about Syrian attack, 99% ferociously negative."

I lump her in with bannon as detestable. If ever there was an idea you don't judge a book by its cover it would be her. Her display of intelligence, suggesting N. Korea nuke Seattle. Is only surpassed by a corrosive, ugly interior of hate. Mixed with zero compassion. A real prize.

[normiss 801]

After the republicans denied Obama authority to respond to Assad's atrocities and then accuse him of being weak & leading from behind.

Gotta love how the party has broken everything then claim they are the only ones to fix everything.

[jakee 1,490]

airdvr

Your over-simplification is astounding. The effect of this was worldwide. It gives notice to Putin, to Jong-Un, and all the state sponsors of terrorism. There's a new sheriff in town.

Meet the new Sheriff, same as the old Sheriff!

Quote

I've always believed that projecting weakness invites attack.

What is being projected now?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 2,027]

jakee

***Your over-simplification is astounding. The effect of this was worldwide. It gives notice to Putin, to Jong-Un, and all the state sponsors of terrorism. There's a new sheriff in town.

Meet the new Sheriff, same as the old Sheriff!

Quote

I've always believed that projecting weakness invites attack.

What is being projected now?

Incompetence coupled with prevarication and greed.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tkhayes 348]

My email to Rep Gus Billirakis today:
Your fake outrage over Syria is about the lowest form of hypocrisy left in the Congress today.
4 years ago, gas attacks were conducted in Syria and you, as a member of Congress REFUSED to do anything about it. And now, somehow you are "outraged".
You are supposedly pro-life and supporting a cause at home, but tens of thousands of children can die in foreign countries, yet you will block ANY refugee immigration?
So let me get this straight....it is OK for hundreds of thousands of people to die in Syria using conventional weapons but when chemical weapons are used (only while your President is in power) you suddenly are all concerned about it?
It is sad, sickening and disgusting. I am revolted by your very words. You are truly one of the reasons that we have Islamic extremists in the world.

[Phil1111 1,149]

There are two websites that offer objective views on Syria, the war and refugees.
1. IamSyria, started by
"Professor David Crane was appointed a professor of practice at Syracuse University College of Law in the summer of 2006. Prior to that time he was a distinguished visiting professor for the 2005 academic year. From 2002-2005 he was the founding Chief Prosecutor of the Special Court for Sierra Leone, an international war crimes tribunal, appointed to that position by the Secretary General of the United Nations,
http://www.iamsyria.org/about-us.html
2. Syria Deeply founded by a Canadian woman from Montreal who was on CNN, Fareed Zakaria, GPS today.
https://www.newsdeeply.com/syria

IamSyria reported the death toll for March:
- Government forces: 417
- Russian forces: 224
- ISIS: 129
- Armed opposition factions: 14
- International Coalition forces: 260
- Other Parties: 84
- Kurdish Forces: 11

Which illustrates Putin's involvement in the war. Naturally RT (Russian Television)doesn't report those figures.
http://www.iamsyria.org/death-tolls.html

[SkyDekker 1,465]

airdvr

***Great, so this "retaliation" had absolutely no effect and didn't alter or affect the Syrian/Russian capabilities.

Sounds bigly effective. Winning.

I believe there is another term for blustering and grandstanding with no effect.....dog and pony show.

Your over-simplification is astounding. The effect of this was worldwide. It gives notice to Putin, to Jong-Un, and all the state sponsors of terrorism. There's a new sheriff in town.

I know you don't agree with this assessment. I've always believed that projecting weakness invites attack.

But that is exactly what you did. Project weakness.

You lobbed a bunch of missiles, after warning the Russians and were unable to hit anything of consequence. Bombing runs were flown a few hours later from the airport hit.

[AlanS 1]

SkyDekker

But that is exactly what you did. Project weakness.

You lobbed a bunch of missiles, after warning the Russians and were unable to hit anything of consequence. Bombing runs were flown a few hours later from the airport hit.

I'm not sure what you were expecting, but not telling Russia that the air strike was coming would be putting thier soldiers lives at risk, and that would be stupid. We will want to work with Russia to help find a political solution to end this Syrian civil war.

In this case what needs to happen next is the world needs to remind Russia of what it said it would do in 2013, which is remove chemical weapons from Syria.

Then, after ISIS is removed from Syria, it seems that a political solution needs to be found to permanently end the fighting. Which to me seems to allow for a federated government where the Alawites(Shia), Sunnies and Kurds, each have a separate government as part of a federated Syria.