New Political Parties

[RonD1120 62]

Today Glenn Beck stated his belief that the Democratic and Republican parties no longer exist. Both have become fragmented into factions of polarized opposites. He said he believes America is primarily divided into Globalists and Nationalists.

This afternoon I watched a TED Talk with Gretchen Carlson and David Brooks.

Brooks further defined the two groups stating the Globalists feel the winds of Globalism at their backs and favor it for greater opportunities. The Nationalists on the other hand feel the wind blowing in their faces and they lack a secure base to whether the storm.

https://www.ted.com/talks/gretchen_carlson_david_brooks_political_common_ground_in_a_polarized_united_states

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,991]

> He said he believes America is primarily divided into Globalists and Nationalists.

And authoritarians and libertarians. And conservatives and liberals. There are a lot of dimensions to political thought in the US.

[RonD1120 62]

billvon

> He said he believes America is primarily divided into Globalists and Nationalists.

And authoritarians and libertarians. And conservatives and liberals. There are a lot of dimensions to political thought in the US.

Yes, and on TED they also discussed the Coastal Elites and Middle America. The latter elected President Trump.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,991]

>Yes, and on TED they also discussed the Coastal Elites and Middle America.
>The latter elected President Trump.

Florida, the Carolinas and Georgia went for Trump. Colorado, Minnesota, New Mexico and Illinois went for Clinton. So that's not a good blanket statement either.

[RonD1120 62]

billvon

>Yes, and on TED they also discussed the Coastal Elites and Middle America.
>The latter elected President Trump.

Florida, the Carolinas and Georgia went for Trump. Colorado, Minnesota, New Mexico and Illinois went for Clinton. So that's not a good blanket statement either.

Maybe that is because you are of the former and I am of the latter. We look at things differently.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,991]

Quote

Maybe that is because you are of the former and I am of the latter. We look at things differently.

So you don't live in a coastal state? Or are you disagreeing that Florida, the Carolinas and Georgia went for Trump, and Colorado, Minnesota, New Mexico and Illinois went for Clinton?

[RonD1120 62]

billvon

Quote

Maybe that is because you are of the former and I am of the latter. We look at things differently.

So you don't live in a coastal state? Or are you disagreeing that Florida, the Carolinas and Georgia went for Trump, and Colorado, Minnesota, New Mexico and Illinois went for Clinton?

I think maybe you should watch the video.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[TriGirl 318]

billvon

Florida... went for Trump.

Only just barely (in the neighborhood of 115k votes difference).

I heard an interesting report after the election regarding Florida voting patterns. It added up all the votes for the D candidates versus all the votes for the R candidates over the past 10 or so presidential elections. The actual number of votes for D candidates was actually far and away much higher than for R candidates -- yet the number of elections the R got the state's electoral votes was something like 7 or 8 (I'm sure I'm not remembering the details correctly, but these are the salient points).

Seriously, something has to change in our system.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[billvon 2,991]

>Seriously, something has to change in our system.

Easiest short term change is to advocate for the congressional district method that Maine and Nebraska use. Not exactly a popular vote but a lot closer.

[jakee 1,490]

RonD1120

***>Yes, and on TED they also discussed the Coastal Elites and Middle America.
>The latter elected President Trump.

Florida, the Carolinas and Georgia went for Trump. Colorado, Minnesota, New Mexico and Illinois went for Clinton. So that's not a good blanket statement either.

Maybe that is because you are of the former and I am of the latter. We look at things differently.

Differently to what actually happened?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 62]

We call ourselves middle America. Watch the video.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

RonD1120

We call ourselves middle America. Watch the video.

You can call yourselves anything you want.
Doesn't make it true.

You're "deep south", fundamentalist Christian and clannish mountain people.

Nowhere near the "middle" that I can see.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[jakee 1,490]

RonD1120

We call ourselves middle America. Watch the video.

If you're not geographically in the middle, you sure as hell aren't socially, politically or morally in the middle.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[tkhayes 348]

sure the Republican Party and Democratic party no longer exist, that is why we have an entrenched two party system, that gets 90-95% of the votes in every election for the past 150 years...

because they do not 'exist'. Beck is simply wishful thinking, not a statement of fact. The two party system is not going anywhere because the parties are in control of the states, which run elections. and the people that we need to change it are the parties themselves. not likely going to happen

There are hundreds, if not thousands fo articles written about how the system has been entrenched for 2 centuries

[wmw999 2,447]

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There are a lot of dimensions to political thought in the US.

And the political parties, by enforcing party discipline and ideology-shaming across the board, rather than only on major facets, don't recognize that. They each think they represent all possible factions (except for maybe favorite color and pet owner/non-pet-owner), and so we get a tortured definition of Democrat and Republican.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wmw999 2,447]

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We call ourselves middle America

So do I.

Those words define how we'd like to think of ourselves, and they both say something about our desire to be part of a body. Maybe we have more in common than you think.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Phil1111 1,149]

tkhayes

sure the Republican Party and Democratic party no longer exist, that is why we have an entrenched two party system, that gets 90-95% of the votes in every election for the past 150 years...

because they do not 'exist'. Beck is simply wishful thinking, not a statement of fact. The two party system is not going anywhere because the parties are in control of the states, which run elections. and the people that we need to change it are the parties themselves. not likely going to happen

There are hundreds, if not thousands fo articles written about how the system has been entrenched for 2 centuries

Whoever directs policy towards the disaffection of government will form the next government. Not all trump supporters are racists. But like France, UK, etc. there are voters that believe the net of free trade and globalization. Has not protected their welfare.

Policy needs to address the lack of upward mobility of Americans. The decreasing opportunities to find decent full time jobs. Instead of a full time job with no income growth prospects.

France, Spain, Italy and many other countries are also facing these same headwinds on employment compensation.

[normiss 801]

"Today Glenn Beck" is as far as I made it.
I stopped listening to his crap when he displayed his racism though I did support his view of Trump as Hitler.

[billvon 2,991]

>And the political parties, by enforcing party discipline and ideology-shaming across the
>board, rather than only on major facets, don't recognize that.

I think they both recognize and capitalize on it. They seek to claim the majority of each of those political axes for themselves. People who want widely available healthcare? The democrats claim the ACA gives them that. The republicans claim it all has to be replaced with something much better. Libertarians? Republicans claim to represent small-government conservative libertarian values; democrats claim to represent the personal liberties that libertarianism is based on.

Neither side would ever "give up" on one of those axes, so you won't see real discussion on many topics. Abortion? Republicans will, in general, not come out and say "I don't think a woman has a right to choose what happens with her body." They will say "I believe in life" or something similar. Smaller government? Democrats won't come out and say "we want more government." They'll say "we want a more efficient, more effective government" or some such, so as not to completely lose independents who think government is too big.

> They each think they represent all possible factions . . .

Agreed there. And, for the most part, they have convinced themselves that that's true.

[rehmwa 2]

billvon

>And the political parties, by enforcing party discipline and ideology-shaming across the
>board, rather than only on major facets, don't recognize that.

I think they both recognize and capitalize on it. They seek to claim the majority of each of those political axes for themselves. People who want widely available healthcare? The democrats claim the ACA gives them that. The republicans claim it all has to be replaced with something much better. Libertarians? Republicans claim to represent small-government conservative libertarian values; democrats claim to represent the personal liberties that libertarianism is based on.

Neither side would ever "give up" on one of those axes, so you won't see real discussion on many topics. Abortion? Republicans will, in general, not come out and say "I don't think a woman has a right to choose what happens with her body." They will say "I believe in life" or something similar. Smaller government? Democrats won't come out and say "we want more government." They'll say "we want a more efficient, more effective government" or some such, so as not to completely lose independents who think government is too big.

> They each think they represent all possible factions . . .

Agreed there. And, for the most part, they have convinced themselves that that's true.

I was going to comment on that part of Wendy's post. But I read this one and I don't think I have much to add that isn't already well said.

edit: other than I don't really think the party "leadership" of each party truly believes they represent all factions. Cynical here, but I sure they realize they don't, nor ever intend to. They just have to convince the factions they do - even when their actions are clearly not representative.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[RonD1120 62]

wmw999

Quote

We call ourselves middle America

So do I.

Those words define how we'd like to think of ourselves, and they both say something about our desire to be part of a body. Maybe we have more in common than you think.

Wendy P.

Amen! Some others do not seem to understand how the term is used.

I've never felt as though we were separated by any great distance.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

I didn't need to know that irrelevance. Did you watch the TED Talk? It was not about Glenn Beck.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[normiss 801]

Nope.
Brooks is irrelevant due to his stereotyping, other than his support for Obama and Clinton, and Carlson is irrelevant except for the abuse she suffered at Fox.

Never been much of a fan of Ted talks anyway.

[RonD1120 62]

I started this thread to explore the social changes in the U.S. Allow me to expand the thought further.

IMO, we have a move toward nationalism vs. globalism. Conservative radio is discussing this topic.

My life experience has shown me that there are four strata of people groups as follows:

1. Mountain people
2. Country or rural people
3. Suburban or metropolitan people
4. City people

The first two categories tend to exhibit more peace and joy in life and tend to share with others for mutual survival. They are more nationalistic or patriotic. They want one language, English; secure borders; uniform culture. The latter two tend exhibit an attack and defensive mode and fight for what they have gained and seek more. They are the globalists and see that path as expeditious to material gain.

Note the groups are not necessarily geographic.

The first two groups are more focused on the spiritual aspect of life. They see life as a gift from God, as they understand him. The latter two are more existential and believe in humanism and relative ethics.

I also believe the 21st Century civil war has begun. One theory is that God can restore order. Another theory is that the people will demand dictators to restore peace.

1 Timothy 6:
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[gowlerk 2,193]

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I also believe the 21st Century civil war has begun. One theory is that God can restore order. Another theory is that the people will demand dictators to restore peace.

You also believe in salvation and eternal life. You can believe whatever you want, but there is no evidence to support any of your beliefs. Every time you read a new book, or see a new video by someone who supports your views it swells your head with new answers and brings new clarity to your vision. Which seems to satisfy you for a while.

Life and society are complex. The two party is system is a system of two coalitions. Just as no two Christians ever believe the exact same thing, no two Republicans or Democrats have the same beliefs.

If you are waiting for God to restore order you will die disappointed. Politics is an affair of man. Even Jesus knew that.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.