kallend 2,027 #1 July 4, 2017 USA - founded as a Christian nation? www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/07/04/what-politicians-mean-when-they-say-america-was-founded-as-a-christian-nation/?utm_term=.5c3725f4dd93&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,312 #2 July 4, 2017 Because, The United States Constitution does mention God. In Article VII, the Constitution states: Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the twelfth.... But, this is a good read also: http://www.heritage.org/political-process/report/did-america-have-christian-foundingNobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #3 July 4, 2017 kallendwww.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/07/04/what-politicians-mean-when-they-say-america-was-founded-as-a-christian-nation/?utm_term=.5c3725f4dd93&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1 Can we have a prohibition on posts that contain nothing but a link, please? At least tell us what the link is about in your own words. It shows that you've actually read it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 800 #4 July 4, 2017 Social habit, nothing more. Much like atheists saying god bless you when you sneeze, or bowing our heads out of politeness when a silly group prayer starts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,312 #5 July 4, 2017 Yeah, I get that.... it's how they wrote the years back then. Hence, the second article which takes more of a centrist view and is balanced between yes and no.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,363 #6 July 4, 2017 Hi John, Quotea Christian nation From the article: Those with “a secular mind-set,” Sessions argued in opposing Sonia Sotomayor’s nomination to the Supreme Court, do not understand “who we are” and advance a worldview “directly contrary to the founding of our republic.” Looks to me as if the ( supposedly ) top legal mind in this country has not been paying much attention to rulings of the Supreme Court. And I am not talking about only recent rulings. Why am I not surprised? Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #7 July 4, 2017 yoink ***www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/07/04/what-politicians-mean-when-they-say-america-was-founded-as-a-christian-nation/?utm_term=.5c3725f4dd93&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1 Can we have a prohibition on posts that contain nothing but a link, please? At least tell us what the link is about in your own words. It shows that you've actually read it. As you wish. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #8 July 4, 2017 I've changed how I debate this issue. I could not care less what the religious beliefs of the founding fathers were, although I understand by research that many of them were secular and pursued a secular form of government. I only care about the direction I want my country to take and that is a full separation of church and state. Religion and Law have nothing to do with each other."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #9 July 4, 2017 BIGUNHence, the second article which takes more of a centrist view and is balanced between yes and no. Abstract point - being split between yes and no doesn't mean the view is either centrist or balanced. If the answer to a question is demonstrably 'yes', the person who offers a 50/50 response is actually heavily biased towards the 'no' camp. The person who acknowledges that the answer is 'yes' may in fact be more balanced and centred.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Croc 0 #10 July 4, 2017 Had the USA been founded as a Christian nation it would have a socialist government. (And not the creeping socialist government that we have today.)"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so." Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Croc 0 #11 July 4, 2017 Also, there is no such thing as Judeo-Christian values. If the New Testament is to be believed, these religions are opposed to each other. Jesus' "Father in Heaven" (who is nameless) is the opposite of Jehovah, who describes himself as "a jealous god.""Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so." Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #12 July 4, 2017 Doesn't your constitution say something about ".... one nation under God ......" I do not remember the USA's Constitution specifying which God(s)???? One reason the signers of the Declaration of Independence dis-liked Catholics was because they dis-liked sending tithes to Rome. They also dis-liked the Church of England (Anglican, Episcopalian, or whatever) is because they dis-liked sending tithes to England. Many immigrants to North America were trying to flee religious wars in Europe: 100 Years War, Conquest of Scotland, Conquest of Ireland, etc. Most of this wars may have started with famines, or tribal disputes, or dynastic disputes, but priests (of any religion) were too quick to claim that god(s) supported their side of the argument. A few of those wars were even started by overly-ambitious priests (pick your faith): Crusades, jihad, etc. In short, your founding fathers were trying to pull the teeth from a major excuse to start holy-wars, jihad, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #13 July 4, 2017 riggerrobDoesn't your constitution say something about ".... one nation under God ......" I do not remember the USA's Constitution specifying which God(s)???? Here it is; Please point out the reference: https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/United_States_of_America_1992"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #14 July 5, 2017 riggerrobDoesn't your constitution say something about ".... one nation under God ......" No. That's the "Pledge of Allegiance." And the "under God" part was NOT part of the original version. It was added in the 1950s, during the McCarthy era, when we were terrified of the 'Godless Communists.""There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #15 July 5, 2017 kallend USA - founded as a Christian nation? www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/07/04/what-politicians-mean-when-they-say-america-was-founded-as-a-christian-nation/?utm_term=.5c3725f4dd93&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1 I found the article you posted very interesting and enjoyed it very much. The founding of our nation and it future direction is a subject we should have and hopefully done so in a civil way. It did bring to memory a quote from John Hancock. John Hancock marveled the Lord gave this country...."a name and a standing among the nations of the world...I hope and pray that the gratitude of their hearts may be expressed by proper use of those inestimable blessings, by the greatest exertions of patriotism, by forming and supporting institutions for cultivating the human understanding, and for the greatest progress of the Arts and Sciences, by establishing laws for the support of piety, religion, and morality...and by exhibiting on the great theater of the world those social, public and private virtues which give more dignity to a people, possessing their own sovereignty than the crowns and diadems afford to sovereign princes." Have a great 4th Pulled this quote from notes taken many moons ago when in High School. Believe its from a speech made in the Council Chamber, February 27, 1788. Well, its what I wrote back in the 70's when we learned such things before Hip Hop and safe spaces. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,192 #16 July 5, 2017 I like your thinking. Quote Religion and Law have nothing to do with each other. And the Law makes that quite clear.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
correeceo 0 #17 July 5, 2017 BIGUN *** *** The United States Constitution does mention God. In Article VII, the Constitution states: Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America Social habit, nothing more. Yeah, I get that.... it's how they wrote the years back then. But if it was so common, why is it seen in only three other national documents - the Articles of Confederation, the Northwest Ordinance and the Constitution? I think they were making a an intentional and significant statement. Dating our "organic" documents in "the year of our Lord" stands in direct contrast to the British tradition of dating their documents to the reign of the current monarch of the time. One thing is clear tho, they were certainly less hostile to the idea of God than they are today. I mean, back then they at least humored it. Nowadays, they just get all butt-hurt at any notion of God. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,312 #18 July 5, 2017 On Monday, September 17, 1787, James Madison moved that the Constitution be signed by the members and offered the following as a convenient form viz. "Done in Convention, by the unanimous consent of the States present the 17th of Sepr. & c.---In Witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names." After some more discussion that day (unrelated to the "Year of our Lord" phrase) most of the members voted to approve the document. The wording of the final clause that they approved was different from the wording that would eventually appear in the final Constitution. The new wording included the phrase "Year of our Lord." http://www.philipvickersfithian.com/2011/05/us-constitution-and-year-of-our-lord.html?m=1 Having pointed out the historical background... You and I have had offline discussions about God. I can believe in both science and God. Neither gets offended.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,192 #19 July 5, 2017 Quote Nowadays, they just get all butt-hurt at any notion of God. Actually, it's Christians who act all butt hurt when they feel the social power slipping from their hands.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #20 July 5, 2017 gowlerkI like your thinking. Quote Religion and Law have nothing to do with each other. And the Law makes that quite clear. No, it does not. If one takes the time to read the Federalist papers it is clear that the founders did not want a state sponsored or favored religion. They also never intended to exclude religion from government! What you see as, "very clear", is the directions the courts have taken. Many of the founders were also very clear when they stated that laws that do not have the backing of a religious morality will never stand! We are seeing the impact of this daily. Now we will see the normal argument against this taking this position to the extremes."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #21 July 5, 2017 gowlerkQuote Nowadays, they just get all butt-hurt at any notion of God. Actually, it's Christians who act all butt hurt when they feel the social power slipping from their hands. Ignorant is those who refuse to see with their eyes wide open. And this post proves it!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #22 July 5, 2017 rushmc***Quote Nowadays, they just get all butt-hurt at any notion of God. Actually, it's Christians who act all butt hurt when they feel the social power slipping from their hands. Ignorant is those who refuse to see with their eyes wide open. And this post proves it! Isn't that the truth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #23 July 5, 2017 QuoteNo, it does not. If one takes the time to read the Federalist papers it is clear that the founders did not want a state sponsored or favored religion. They also never intended to exclude religion from government! What you see as, "very clear", is the directions the courts have taken. Many of the founders were also very clear when they stated that laws that do not have the backing of a religious morality will never stand! We are seeing the impact of this daily. There are plenty of countries around the world who are moral, good, whatever, without the influence of Christianity or any religion. Believe it or not there is morality without referencing Bronze Age Middle Eastern Mythology."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,192 #24 July 5, 2017 QuoteIf one takes the time to read the Federalist papers it is clear that the founders did not want a state sponsored or favored religion. They also never intended to exclude religion from government! It does not matter what those papers say. They are not law. However, the 1st Amendment is Law.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #25 July 5, 2017 DJLQuoteNo, it does not. If one takes the time to read the Federalist papers it is clear that the founders did not want a state sponsored or favored religion. They also never intended to exclude religion from government! What you see as, "very clear", is the directions the courts have taken. Many of the founders were also very clear when they stated that laws that do not have the backing of a religious morality will never stand! We are seeing the impact of this daily. There are plenty of countries around the world who are moral, good, whatever, without the influence of Christianity or any religion. Believe it or not there is morality without referencing Bronze Age Middle Eastern Mythology. Which has nothing to do with what our founders said. And none of those countries, even today, have the levels of freedom seen here in the US. THAT is a big difference! We will only stand as a country if we follow our laws. That means everyone! And to do this we must have some moral standard we all live under. (NOTE: that standard can be and is very broad) We are NOT seeing this today. I think you can agree with that. And I did not say Christian religion. I said religious morality. There were also statements made in this thread that insinuated that people came here to get away from religion. They really came here (in general) so they could practice religion as they saw it. That is a big difference."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
