102 shot, 15 fatally, in Chicago over July 4 holiday weekend

[kallend 2,108]

There was a 20 year decline in gun violence in Chicago until 2015. Guns were legalized and CCW permitted 2013-2014. Now gun violence has gone up again.

More guns - more gun crime.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nolhtairt 0]

Chicago doing what Chicago does best.

[airdvr 210]

kallend

There was a 20 year decline in gun violence in Chicago until 2015. Guns were legalized and CCW permitted 2013-2014. Now gun violence has gone up again.

More guns - more gun crime.

Possibly. In 2013 council voted to suspend the registration requirement but you still have to have a permit. In almost 80% of the shootings no one has been charged. This is due to the locals not wanting to talk to police for fear of retribution. I seriously doubt the gun violence is being committed by people with a permit.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Attached map shows where shootings have occurred in Chicago since July 1.

The big cluster is on the "west side", where there is an ongoing gang war. While most of the victims (and pretty much all the perps) are gang bangers, there are also, unfortunately, some victims who are "collateral damage". The overwhelming majority are young males.

There are also neighborhoods where nothing much ever happens beyond someone failing to come to a complete stop at a stop sign.

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There was a 20 year decline in gun violence in Chicago until 2015. Guns were legalized and CCW permitted 2013-2014. Now gun violence has gone up again.

More guns - more gun crime.

Are the gun laws the same in the "neighborhoods where nothing much ever happens" and "where there is an ongoing gang war."?

Derek V

[wmw999 2,545]

I couldn't get apples-to-apples data across the board, but I did look at data from across the country from the Gun Violence Archive. It tracks shootings (I'd have to go into more detail than it's worth to count the number of people), injuries, and kills.

From last Thursday to today there have been about 500 incidents (which would imply more people). That's not July 4th weekend, but it doesn't have that detail any more; there are too many for them to make it all available online . I don't know how reliable reports are; I daresay that if particular departments don't report to whatever databases are the source, those departments would show undercounts.

Illinois (61), California (48), Florida (28), and Ohio (26) have the top four spots, with Illinois being well at the top, and California being well above the next two. There is some correlation with population, but it's definitely not the only factor, as Texas and New York (which are rather large and populous) are well down the list.

I suppose that someone who lives in Pennsylvania could focus on Chicago ("Chiraq") because it's so easy; kind of like robbing banks, it's where the money is (and, of course, the confirmation of one's preconceptions). However that doesn't really solve any problems, other than to point to something shiny to distract from how the issue of gun violence might be addressed.

In other words -- why do you care about Chicago above Ohio? Is it just that it's an easy target, and you get the additional dig in at BLM, knowing for sure that you won't be called on to challenge any assumptions as long as all focus is on Chicago?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[airdvr 210]

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In other words -- why do you care about Chicago above Ohio? Is it just that it's an easy target, and you get the additional dig in at BLM, knowing for sure that you won't be called on to challenge any assumptions as long as all focus is on Chicago?

True it's an easy target and the data is readily available. http://heyjackass.com/

I understand your point however, if BLM says that black lives matter one would think they would be outraged at what's going on in those areas.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[wmw999 2,545]

Many individuals do care about it; that's why you see all those protests that someone else linked. Some people are opportunists, and only care about BLM when it suits them. Do you really expect every-single-minority to think, be, and act the same? Just like all white people are the same?

The data is readily available for Chicago because people are wanting to point at something, anything, that points away from them. That's not usually the sign of someone who wants to actually address a problem that they can do something about -- they only want someone else to do something.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kallend 2,108]

Some 300,000 guns are stolen from legal gun owners every year according to the DoJ.

Every one of them ends up in the hands of a criminal.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[gowlerk 2,253]

kallend

Some 300,000 guns are stolen from legal gun owners every year according to the DoJ.

Every one of them ends up in the hands of a criminal.

And some of them leak across your northern frontier into my country.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Some 300,000 guns are stolen from legal gun owners every year according to the DoJ.

Every one of them ends up in the hands of a criminal.

You replied, but didn't answer the question.

Are the gun laws the same in the "neighborhoods where nothing much ever happens" and "where there is an ongoing gang war."?

Derek V

[SkyDekker 1,465]

You have already established previously you are fine with current death rates so long as you get to keep your guns.

[airdvr 210]

If my house is on fire I don't call the dog catcher.

The organization needs to live up to it's name. From their website...

Black Lives Matter is an ideological and political intervention in a world where Black lives are systematically and intentionally targeted for demise. It is an affirmation of Black folks’ contributions to this society, our humanity, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression.

They might be looking for deadly oppression in the wrong place.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[billvon 3,078]

>If my house is on fire I don't call the dog catcher.

If your house is on fire, and you call the local fire department, but the nearby airport fire department doesn't show up, do you get on the Internet and ask "is it any wonder that the airport fire department isn't taken seriously? You'd think that they would care about FIRE! It's right there in the name."

Well, you might - but most people wouldn't. Because they'd realize that while the airport fire department does indeed fight fires, they have a slightly different charter than your local fire department.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Maybe, unless their reasoning is that the situation exists mostly because of this deadly oppression.

They might see it is fighting the cause as opposed to the result.

[kallend 2,108]

Hooknswoop

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Some 300,000 guns are stolen from legal gun owners every year according to the DoJ.

Every one of them ends up in the hands of a criminal.

You replied, but didn't answer the question.

Are the gun laws the same in the "neighborhoods where nothing much ever happens" and "where there is an ongoing gang war."?

Derek V

Irrelevant to the issue. What IS relevant is that the more legal gun owners there are, the more likely it is that previously legal guns will end up in the hands of criminals.

Easy logic for you.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Hooknswoop 19]

You replied, but didn't answer the question.

Are the gun laws the same in the "neighborhoods where nothing much ever happens" and "where there is an ongoing gang war."?

Derek V

[normiss 858]

Personally, I'm unaware of any state in the nation that has "neighborhood" laws.
Legally speaking when it comes to guns anyway.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Personally, I'm unaware of any state in the nation that has "neighborhood" laws.
Legally speaking when it comes to guns anyway.

Me either. And I am sure Chicago is no different. Kallend knows this and that is why he refuses to answer the question. It demonstrates that guns laws does not directly equate to gun fatality statistics. Destroys his conclusion that more guns = more gun fatalities.

Nothing like facts to get in the way of a good conclusion. Sounds like aTrump.

Derek V

[kallend 2,108]

Hooknswoop

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Personally, I'm unaware of any state in the nation that has "neighborhood" laws.
Legally speaking when it comes to guns anyway.

Me either. And I am sure Chicago is no different. Kallend knows this and that is why he refuses to answer the question. It demonstrates that guns laws does not directly equate to gun fatality statistics. Destroys his conclusion that more guns = more gun fatalities.

Nothing like facts to get in the way of a good conclusion. Sounds like aTrump.

Derek V

S&W, Colt Industries, etc. don't wholesale guns to criminal gangs. The criminals get them from legal gun owners by theft, straw purchase, etc. No gun starts out as an illegal firearm.

The more legal gun owners there are, the more likely it is that previously legal guns will end up in the hands of criminals.

The easier it is to get a gun legally, the more guns will end up in the hands of criminals.

We see this very clearly in Chicago data. Variations by neighborhood are totally irrelevant since guns are easily transported.

Easy logic EVEN for you.

All you are lamely attempting to do is throw dust in the air.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Hooknswoop 19]

You replied, but didn't answer the question.

Very simple question. 3rd time I have asked;

Are the gun laws the same in the "neighborhoods where nothing much ever happens" and "where there is an ongoing gang war."?

Derek V

[gowlerk 2,253]

When questions are obviously rhetorical, with the answer obvious to everyone concerned, don't be surprised when they are ignored. You can be pretty sure John is not going to answer, so why don't you just get on with your point?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[airdvr 210]

So if Austin has 45 fatalities this year and Chicago Lawn only 5, are the people who live in Chicago Lawn driving to Austin to shoot people?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Hooknswoop 19]

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When questions are obviously rhetorical, with the answer obvious to everyone concerned, don't be surprised when they are ignored. You can be pretty sure John is not going to answer, so why don't you just get on with your point?

Kallend doesn't want to have a discussion. That is my first point.

Secondly, he drew the conclusion that with the relaxation of the gun laws, gun fatalities went up. But they didn't go up in every neighborhood, according to Kallend. So, he intentionally ignored all the facts in order to further his agenda. Dishonest at best.

Derek V

[kallend 2,108]

Hooknswoop

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When questions are obviously rhetorical, with the answer obvious to everyone concerned, don't be surprised when they are ignored. You can be pretty sure John is not going to answer, so why don't you just get on with your point?

Kallend doesn't want to have a discussion.

I don't answer stupid questions.

Ask a sensible question.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,564]

Hooknswoop

Me either. And I am sure Chicago is no different. Kallend knows this and that is why he refuses to answer the question. It demonstrates that guns laws does not directly equate to gun fatality statistics. Destroys his conclusion that more guns = more gun fatalities.

So you believe that unless there is one dominant factor that is entirely responsible for an outcome, there can be no other causal relationships at all? Gun legality cannot have any influence on the murder rate unless gun legality is solely responsible for the murder rate?

Sounds very very not smart.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?