The odd thing about the lying

[billvon 2,995]

I can't figure out why Trump keeps lying about things. I mean, he's lying about dumb stuff - whether the president of Mexico or the head of the Boy Scouts of America called him, for example. Stuff that doesn't matter. Stuff that is really easy to fact-check. Stuff that in fact is fact-checked - and he responds with another lie. (i.e. he did talk to him, not on the phone, like he said.) What does he think this gains him?

I once heard a wise (and eminently practical) man say that you should almost never lie. Not out of some fealty to a higher moral standard, but because if someday you get to a point in your life where you have to lie to save your life, or the lives of your family, or something else incredibly important to you - if at that point you have never before lied, you can lie and they will believe you. There is practical value in being honest.

Trump almost seems to be doing the opposite. Lie about everything, even when it's not important. It's become a given that if Trump says something, it's probably a lie - based purely on his track record. How does that benefit him, or his administration?

Is it a part of a larger strategy? Hard to see what it would be. Is it because he's just done it all his life and doesn't know any better? That might be likely, given his history. Perhaps up until now, no one has had much of a reason to check if he is being honest. Indeed, perhaps as a reality TV star, entertaining lies have value.

Is it just part of a mental disorder that makes him incapable of being honest? That's probably also pretty likely, if several doctors who have spoken up are to be believed. If so, the 25th amendment becomes a more viable option for the GOP.

Strange days indeed.

[jclalor 12]

It's common behavior for a narcissist.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/communication-success/201707/6-common-traits-narcissists-and-gaslighters

[kallend 2,027]

Wolf!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[yoink 321]

It's habitual at this point, and like any habit is really hard to break.

When I was quite young I found myself in a similar habit. I'd lie compulsively about everything just because I could - it hadn't really come back to bite me in any serious manner and generally ended up with a benefit for me so it became self-reinforcing.

Needless to say it eventually caught up with me in a big way and I started to understand that there were consequences. It took years and serious consequences for me to alter that behaviour.

That's what Trump has never had - He's been so protected and pampered his entire life that he has no real idea of the possible consequences of lying. To him at the moment this is just how you communicate. I'm sure he either thinks that everyone else is doing it (hence all the Fake News stuff), or that it's a net positive in the medium to long term.

[yoink 321]

billvon

I once heard a wise (and eminently practical) man say that you should almost never lie. Not out of some fealty to a higher moral standard, but because if someday you get to a point in your life where you have to lie to save your life, or the lives of your family, or something else incredibly important to you - if at that point you have never before lied, you can lie and they will believe you. There is practical value in being honest.

Trite, but not true in my experience - at least when you're talking about communicating with random people. If someone knows you really well as someone who doesn't lie then that strategy has value, but if it's to someone who doesn't really know you then it's worthless.

You certainly don't want to lie about everything, but lying well is a skill that has to be learned and practiced. It's like any other form of social manipulation.

If you're lying for the first time ever to save the lives of your family to some random kidnapper then I wouldn't give them great odds.

[billeisele 130]

won't it be fun in 6 - 7 years near the end of his second term when the Dems and media finally figure out his strategy

give them silly things to focus on while the big business gets done

CNN will be gone, illegal immigration will be significantly decreased, no longer will an American citizen have to worry about being killed by an illegal, Killary, Obama and their bunch will be in jail, the health care system will actually work, the stock market will be +++, and North Korea and Russia won't be an issue

the fun will be huge

OR

the obstructionist DEMS win and we go back down the failed pathways that Trump is fighting to pull us out of


just my thoughts, no need to argue, I won't read the replies, I see the other side just don't agree, back to more interesting things - it's almost eclipse party time

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[Stumpy 284]

billeisele

I won't read the replies, I see the other side just don't agree

Quality trolling.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[RonD1120 62]

billeisele

won't it be fun in 6 - 7 years near the end of his second term when the Dems and media finally figure out his strategy

give them silly things to focus on while the big business gets done

CNN will be gone, illegal immigration will be significantly decreased, no longer will an American citizen have to worry about being killed by an illegal, Killary, Obama and their bunch will be in jail, the health care system will actually work, the stock market will be +++, and North Korea and Russia won't be an issue

the fun will be huge

OR

the obstructionist DEMS win and we go back down the failed pathways that Trump is fighting to pull us out of


just my thoughts, no need to argue, I won't read the replies, I see the other side just don't agree, back to more interesting things - it's almost eclipse party time

Ding - Ding
We have a winner!

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[wmw999 2,451]

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Lawndarter 3]

billeisele

won't it be fun in 6 - 7 years near the end of his second term when the Dems and media finally figure out his strategy

give them silly things to focus on while the big business gets done

CNN will be gone, illegal immigration will be significantly decreased, no longer will an American citizen have to worry about being killed by an illegal, Killary, Obama and their bunch will be in jail, the health care system will actually work, the stock market will be +++, and North Korea and Russia won't be an issue

the fun will be huge

OR

the obstructionist DEMS win and we go back down the failed pathways that Trump is fighting to pull us out of


just my thoughts, no need to argue, I won't read the replies, I see the other side just don't agree, back to more interesting things - it's almost eclipse party time

Whatever drugs this guy's on, I hope he's not going them at the DZ.

[wmw999 2,451]

It's the "fuck you, we won, and we'll do whatever we want, and if it pisses you off, all the better" approach.

The main difference about Trump is that he embraces them; they're all over the political map, the other sides aren't proud of them.

But never conflate what someone will say on dz.com (or any anonymous or in-group venue) with what they are like in person and/or individually. Personally, I try to be pedantic in person, too

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,995]

>It's the "fuck you, we won, and we'll do whatever we want, and if it pisses you off,
>all the better" approach.

Interestingly, it looks like at least a few Republicans are realizing they didn't "win" the last election they way they thought they did. It's unfortunate they realized this about a year too late.

[Lawndarter 3]

billeisele

won't it be fun in 6 - 7 years near the end of his second term when the Dems and media finally figure out his strategy

give them silly things to focus on while the big business gets done

I won't dispute that this has been a somewhat effective strategy, though no real big business seems to be getting done, Trump has accomplished nothing but getting a judge into the Supreme Court, and embarrassing himself and America on the world stage too many times to count.

There won't be a second term, I'm pretty sure. I'm not sure he'll finish his first term.

billeisele

CNN will be gone, illegal immigration will be significantly decreased, no longer will an American citizen have to worry about being killed by an illegal, Killary, Obama and their bunch will be in jail, the health care system will actually work, the stock market will be +++, and North Korea and Russia won't be an issue

CNN isn't going anywhere. Hell, they might even start sounding more like journalists as they keep challenging the bullshit the administration spews like Jim Acosta did.

Where do you live where being "killed by an illegal" is such a fear? Free advice: move!

Neither Hillary Clinton nor Barack Obama are going to jail, and I can't believe anyone was stupid enough to think that was a thing.

Healthcare isn't going improve - ACA/Obamacare was a small step to making it better, but there's a long way to go, and Trumpcare ain't it - people who voted for Trump might just start realizing that.

The stock market soared under President Obama, as the American economy recovered from the 2008 disaster. Of course, the fact that the average working class American doesn't feel like it benefited them suggests that doesn't matter so much.

North Korea isn't really an issue. And Russia, well, they're an issue because they colluded with the current, totally unqualified occupant of the White House (when he's there, anyhow, and not golfing) - but they didn't do it because they have or want influence over him, I suspect - they did it because they knew what a joke he'd be, and how he'd totally discredit America. It's working.

billeisele

OR

the obstructionist DEMS win and we go back down the failed pathways that Trump is fighting to pull us out of

The failed pathways that built most of America's prosperity? Okay.

billeisele

just my thoughts, no need to argue, I won't read the replies, I see the other side just don't agree, back to more interesting things - it's almost eclipse party time

And what sad thoughts they are.

[Niki1 1]

He's a huckster, a snake oil salesman. "This tonic will cure whatever ails you." "This building project will make you rich." He's been selling his bullshit forever. If the project isn't successful, he bails and leaves the other investors holding the bag. Even when the project works it's never as good as he said it was going to be. If it sounds too good to be true it's probably bullshit. That's what his campaign was all about. And a lot of people fell for it. I really did not like Bush jr. but i'd much rather have beer with him that Lyin' Donnie.

Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis

Where are we going and why are we in this basket?

[billvon 2,995]

>give them silly things to focus on while the big business gets done

Like healthcare and the wall?

>CNN will be gone

CNN up 39%. MSNBC up 86%, driven by Maddow and O'Donnell.

>illegal immigration will be significantly decreased,

Agreed. It happened over the past 9 years - illegal immigration down, deportations up. So far under Trump there have been more arrests (33% more) but fewer deportations (1.2% less) than under Obama. In the past 9 years, illegal immigrants in the US have declined by

>no longer will an American citizen have to worry about being killed by an illegal

You are more likely to be killed by a US citizen than by an "illegal." Some odds of being killed by cause over your entire life: (per the National Center for Health Statistics)

Lung disease 1 in 27
Murder (all causes) 1 in 249
Asteroid strike 1 in 7500
Accidental shooting 1 in 7945
Police shooting 1 in 8359
Aircraft or spacecraft accident 1 in 9738
Heat wave 1 in 10,785
Foreign terrorists 1 in 45,808 (primarily outside the US)
Refugee terrorists 1 in 46,192,893
Illegal immigrant terrorists 138,374,323

So if you don't worry about being killed by an accidental shooting, or by police, or by an airplane crash, or by coal power plants, or by climate change, you DEFINITELY shouldn't worry about being "killed by an illegal." You are thousands of times more likely to be killed by police. (I know, FOX News probably doesn't give you that stat.)


http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-voice-office-for-victims-of-immigrant-crime-numbers-not-necessary-2017-3

[normiss 801]

Like using first generation immigrant numbers on the negative hit to the economy, completely ignoring the massive contribution on second and third generations of the immigrants.
Nothing BUT dishonesty from this clown.

[TriGirl 319]

I would have liked to listen to a debate between Bush Jr, Kasich, Cruz and Rubio. Those four seemed to represent the Republican spectrum of ideas, and hearing them each discuss topics in the same forum would have (IMHO) brought to light better the good and bad points of each of their plans.

Unfortunately we never got to hear them because the hosts of the debates didn't know how to handle the tantrum-throwing toddler causing a scene center stage. This movie scene kept coming to mind:

"We have serious problems, and we need serious people to solve them. I promise you, [Donald Trump] is not the least bit interested in solving them. He's interested in two things: making you afraid of it, and telling you who's to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections."
-- Andrew Shepherd, "The American President"

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[billvon 2,995]

The media is starting to realize this too, from the Washington Post to FOX News.

An editorial by Paul Waldman in WaPo:
==================
But this somewhat trivial story* illustrates that this has become a central component of the relationship between the press and the White House: Trump tells a bunch of lies, reporters track down the truth then confront his spokesmen to see how they’ll try to spin it away, and report the results.

You can look at it as a kind of game, but something fundamental has changed. We now assume as a matter of course that whatever the president of the United States says is probably false. This is a 180-degree shift from how every president before him, Democrat and Republican, has been approached. All presidents have lied from time to time, but most of what they said was still true. Not so with Trump.

. . .

Could the Trump administration fool the public on that kind of scale? [i.e. the scale of the Iraq War WMD claims] I doubt it. If they tried, everything the president said would be scrutinized closely, and people within the government would be leaking like mad to get the truth out. So in a strange way, Trump’s endless and often comical lies about trivial things may have made it much harder for him to fool us about what matters most.

(* - Trump's lie about being congratulated by the head of the Boy Scouts in a phone call)
========================

Even FOX News, once a bastion of Trump support, has gone off on his dishonesty.

Neil Cavuto: "Mr. President, it's not the 'fake-news media' that's your problem. It's you. . . .They didn't tweet disparaging comments about a London mayor in the middle of a murder spree — you did. They didn't turn on a travel ban that you signed — you did."

Shepard Smith: "The deception, Chris, is mind-boggling. And there are still people who are out there who believe we [the media] are making it up. And one day they’re gonna realize we’re not and look around and go, ‘Where are we, and why are we getting told all these lies?’ . . . Why all these lies? Why is it lie after lie after lie?”

When you have FOX News - a bastion of conservatism, unafraid to engage in a bit of deception of their own for the right political reason - criticizing you for misleading people, you know you have a problem.

[Niki1 1]

billvon

Shepard Smith: "The deception, Chris, is mind-boggling. And there are still people who are out there who believe we [the media] are making it up. And one day they’re gonna realize we’re not and look around and go, ‘Where are we, and why are we getting told all these lies?’ . . . Why all these lies? Why is it lie after lie after lie?”

When you have FOX News - a bastion of conservatism, unafraid to engage in a bit of deception of their own for the right political reason - criticizing you for misleading people, you know you have a problem.

"Where are we going and why are in this basket?"

Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis

Where are we going and why are we in this basket?