A few good things to come out of Charlottesville

[billvon 3,008]

A few good things to come out of the disaster that was the white-supremacist rally in Virginia -

Jim Gray, the mayor of Lexington KY, is going to take down the remaining Confederate statues in his city: "The tragic events in Charlottesville today have accelerated the announcement I intended to make next week: I am taking action to relocate the Confederate statues. We have thoroughly examined this issue, and heard from many of our citizens."

It's sad that we even need to do this, but people now realize the danger in emboldening white supremacists.

White supremacists are starting to realize that maybe hate and violence aren't the answer. Unfortunately, this happened only after they experienced the sort of anger they advocate for, but better late than never.

================
White Supremacists Suddenly Very Concerned About Tolerance After Getting Maced
August 14 2017
Gizmodo

Matthew Colligan and his friend Baked Alaska, whose real name is Anthime Gionet, have spent the past few years tweeting neo-Nazi slogans, advocating for white nationalism, and even saying that “Hitler did nothing wrong.” But they both have dramatically changed their tune in the past 24 hours. This in the wake of a terrorist attack by a neo-Nazi who murdered 32-year-old Heather Heyer and injured dozens of others.

Baked Alaska was maced at the neo-fascist rally and Colligan says that he’s received hundreds of death threats after having his personal information posted online, a practice referred to as being doxed. In response, Baked Alaska has now published tweets saying that “violence is never the answer” and that everyone “must come together as a country and try to understand each other peacefully.” Colligan even released a video on YouTube where he said that, “there’s nothing funny about threatening people’s lives.” The life he’s referring to in this case is his own.

But it’s a remarkable turnaround for two people who have spread hateful messages across social media for years. Colligan often proclaims on video and in tweets that “Hitler did nothing wrong” and has earnestly defended this stance on social media. If Colligan truly believes that it’s not funny to threaten people’s lives, that’s hardly consistent with constantly saying that Adolf Hitler’s murder of millions of Jews was fine, joking or otherwise.

Baked Alaska’s own hateful messages have included photoshopping images of Jewish people in gas chambers and posting a video of himself as recently as Friday yelling that he was “proud to be white” and chanting “hail victory,” the English translation of “sieg heil.”
==============

[winsor 236]

billvon

A few good things to come out of the disaster that was the white-supremacist rally in Virginia -

Jim Gray, the mayor of Lexington KY, is going to take down the remaining Confederate statues in his city: "The tragic events in Charlottesville today have accelerated the announcement I intended to make next week: I am taking action to relocate the Confederate statues. We have thoroughly examined this issue, and heard from many of our citizens."

It's sad that we even need to do this, but people now realize the danger in emboldening white supremacists.

White supremacists are starting to realize that maybe hate and violence aren't the answer. Unfortunately, this happened only after they experienced the sort of anger they advocate for, but better late than never.

================
White Supremacists Suddenly Very Concerned About Tolerance After Getting Maced
August 14 2017
Gizmodo

Matthew Colligan and his friend Baked Alaska, whose real name is Anthime Gionet, have spent the past few years tweeting neo-Nazi slogans, advocating for white nationalism, and even saying that “Hitler did nothing wrong.” But they both have dramatically changed their tune in the past 24 hours. This in the wake of a terrorist attack by a neo-Nazi who murdered 32-year-old Heather Heyer and injured dozens of others.

Baked Alaska was maced at the neo-fascist rally and Colligan says that he’s received hundreds of death threats after having his personal information posted online, a practice referred to as being doxed. In response, Baked Alaska has now published tweets saying that “violence is never the answer” and that everyone “must come together as a country and try to understand each other peacefully.” Colligan even released a video on YouTube where he said that, “there’s nothing funny about threatening people’s lives.” The life he’s referring to in this case is his own.

But it’s a remarkable turnaround for two people who have spread hateful messages across social media for years. Colligan often proclaims on video and in tweets that “Hitler did nothing wrong” and has earnestly defended this stance on social media. If Colligan truly believes that it’s not funny to threaten people’s lives, that’s hardly consistent with constantly saying that Adolf Hitler’s murder of millions of Jews was fine, joking or otherwise.

Baked Alaska’s own hateful messages have included photoshopping images of Jewish people in gas chambers and posting a video of himself as recently as Friday yelling that he was “proud to be white” and chanting “hail victory,” the English translation of “sieg heil.”
==============

The law of unintended consequences rears its ugly head.

On 7 December 1941 the Empire of Japan launched an attack on the U.S. Naval fleet at anchor at Pearl Harbor in Oahu. This seemed to be an overwhelming victory for Japan, but actually sealed the fate of Japanese expansionism.

1) The attack overnight turned the U.S. Navy from a 19th Century force into a 20th Century force. On 6 December 1941 Battleship Admirals held sway in the War Department. On 8 December 1941 the Carrier Admirals ruled.

2) The attack also turned the U.S. from an isolationist nation into one dedicated to revenge. After the attack, nobody voiced isolationist sentiments in public, and anyone perceived as siding with the Axis was treated very badly in the U.S..

3) The ships attacked were in shallow water in a dedicated repair facility, and all but two ships were returned to action, most within 6 months (IIRC).

4) Admiral Nagumo made the mistake of assuming that, unlike Japan, the U.S. was fat with oil and that it was pointless to attack the bunker oil stores on Oahu. In fact, hitting the oil stores would have been a crippling blow to U.S. forces.

Similarly, the organizers of the march in Charlottesville could hardly have done a better job of undermining any potential support they may have garnered by using even a teeny bit of tact. Marching with swastikas, KKK hoods, torches and armament made the opposition look fantastic by comparison. In fact, it would be hard to imagine what the idiots on the left could have done to outdo the idiots on the right.

Even though my family lost a great deal to the invading hordes from the North, and though I consider R.E. Lee to be much more of an honorable sort than the likes of Grant, Sheridan, Sherman et al., I sympathize with moving his statue to take the wind out of the sails of the Sturm Abteilung wannabes. I think Lee would understand.

One more national embarrassment. We're on a roll.


BSBD,

Winsor

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

I think that the "Bay of Pigs" would also be a good analogy.

Virginia was one of the "die hard" segregationist states. Along with South Carolina and Mississippi, they fought the longest and hardest against integration. IIRC, after one of the SC decisions, they chose to pay for black college students to attend out of state universities rather than allow them into their state system.

So these idiots and assholes come to Virginia for their little party.

They know full well that there are a lot of people sympathetic to their cause who won't say so publicly.

I have to think that these morons were expecting that "silent" group to come out and support them, now that they were doing their thing publicly.
If so (and I could be wrong on this), they were just a bit off.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[SkyDekker 1,465]

I find it ironic that many who have said things like:

Trump won, get over it.
Hillary lost, get over it.

Have an issue with statues of confederates being removed. Weren't they the losing side?

[Stumpy 284]

SkyDekker

I find it ironic that many who have said things like:

Trump won, get over it.
Hillary lost, get over it.

Have an issue with statues of confederates being removed. Weren't they the losing side?

Yup.Swastikas and Confederate flags - 2 emblems of losing sides.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[JerryBaumchen 1,373]

Hi Bill,

Quote

White supremacists are starting to realize that maybe hate and violence aren't the answer.

I seriously doubt this. It is right up there with the same 'support Trump at all costs' mindset.

As I have posted before; many years ago, when the neo-Nazis ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lincoln_Rockwell ) wanted to march in Skokie, IL & the ACLU ( that I am a member of ) supported it, I was somewhat shocked. Then I realized that by shining a light on their hatred it will make others realize how much that they do not support them.

Jerry Baumchen

[ryoder 1,590]

GoDaddy bans neo-Nazi site Daily Stormer for disparaging woman killed at Charlottesville rally
Take the first link at top of this page:
https://www.google.com/search?q=GoDaddy+bans+neo-Nazi+site+Daily+Stormer+for+disparaging+woman+killed+at+Charlottesville+rally+site%3Awashingtonpost.com&oq=GoDaddy+bans+neo-Nazi+site+Daily+Stormer+for+disparaging+woman+killed+at+Charlottesville+rally+site%3Awashingtonpost.com&aqs=chrome..69i57.6620j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[normiss 806]

Google didn't even add the domain to their DNS servers.
BOOM!

[normiss 806]

Some good comments came out as well.

Richard Spencer: "Russia is the sole white power in the world.”
David Duke: “Russia is key to white survival.”

Suddenly, a LOT of the Trump admin and positions on issues make sense.
It's all connected.
Disgusting.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Father of one of the Nazis disowns his son:

http://www.inforum.com/opinion/letters/4311880-letter-family-denounces-teffts-racist-rhetoric-and-actions

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[billvon 3,008]

It's sad that it takes a murder to show people what "white nationalism" is all about, but at least now it's out there. Even Trump finally condemned them. Two days after the fact, but better late than never.

[normiss 806]

His follow up regarding Arpaio made it pretty disingenuous.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

billvon

It's sad that it takes a murder to show people what "white nationalism" is all about, but at least now it's out there. Even Trump finally condemned them. Two days after the fact, but better late than never.

Well, Mike Pence went after the media.

For spending too much time condemning Trump and not enough on condemning the Nazis & KKKs.

Really.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Phil1111 1,149]

normiss

His follow up regarding Arpaio made it pretty disingenuous.

You mean trump would finally have to be dragged kicking and screaming to tell a lie to get the media off his back. To get republicans to back off their criticisms?

“What do you think of him?” Donald asked.

I said I was familiar with his abilities, and he had shortcomings. “To be honest, I don’t think he’s the best we can have,” I said. “I’d like to see him either come up to speed, where he can help me a lot more, or maybe there’s something else he can do.”

Instantly, Donald was enthused. “Yeah, I never liked the guy. I don’t think he knows what the fuck he’s doing. My accountants up in New York are always complaining about him. He’s not responsive. And isn’t it funny, I’ve got black accountants at Trump Castle and at Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. Those are the kind of people I want counting my money. Nobody else.”

I couldn’t believe I was hearing this But Donald went on, “Besides that, I’ve got to tell you something else. I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control…. Don’t you agree?” He looked at me square in the eye and waited for my reply.

“Donald, you really shouldn’t say things like that to me or anybody else,” I said. “That is not the kind of image you want to project. We shouldn’t even be having this conversation, even if it’s the way you feel.”

“Yeah, you’re right,” he said. “If anybody ever heard me say that … holy shit … I’d be in a lot of trouble. But I have to tell you, that’s the way I feel.”
http://www.snopes.com/trump-laziness-is-a-trait-in-blacks/

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

While I hate to defend Trump, and that is certainly in line with what he's said and how he behaves, that quote is a bit questionable.

From the Snopes link:

Quote

As the Washington Post noted, it is, at best, a secondhand quote from a private conversation, written down years after the fact, and should be viewed “with some skepticism.”

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Lawndarter 3]

Stumpy

Yup.Swastikas and Confederate flags - 2 emblems of losing sides.

Two sides which very richly and unequivocally deserved to lose, no less.

[Phil1111 1,149]

wolfriverjoe

While I hate to defend Trump, and that is certainly in line with what he's said and how he behaves, that quote is a bit questionable.

From the Snopes link:

Quote

As the Washington Post noted, it is, at best, a secondhand quote from a private conversation, written down years after the fact, and should be viewed “with some skepticism.”

O’Donnell’s report was shocking, but Trump did not contest it at the time. In 1997 he was interviewed for Playboy by author Mark Bowden and he confirmed that the O’Donnell book was “probably true.”
http://fortune.com/2016/06/07/donald-trump-racism-quotes/

[pchapman 279]

Phil1111

In 1997 he was interviewed for Playboy by author Mark Bowden and he confirmed that the O’Donnell book was “probably true.”
http://fortune.com/2016/06/07/donald-trump-racism-quotes/

I think that may be a bit of an overreach. I don't like Trump at all. But still, for Trump to say the 'book is true' is a very general statement, and doesn't mean that he therefore considers every statement in it to be correct, or that he even remembers that particular statement.

For me personally I'll leave that 'laziness' statement off in the far corners of uncertainty. There are bookloads of other nasty things about him that are certainly true.

[Phil1111 1,149]

pchapman

*** In 1997 he was interviewed for Playboy by author Mark Bowden and he confirmed that the O’Donnell book was “probably true.”
http://fortune.com/2016/06/07/donald-trump-racism-quotes/

I think that may be a bit of an overreach. I don't like Trump at all. But still, for Trump to say the 'book is true' is a very general statement, and doesn't mean that he therefore considers every statement in it to be correct, or that he even remembers that particular statement.

For me personally I'll leave that 'laziness' statement off in the far corners of uncertainty. There are bookloads of other nasty things about him that are certainly true.

trump has a well established history of suing anyone who published what he perceives to be defamatory stories about him or his companies. Needless to say their was no action filed regarding this book.

http://www.medialaw.org/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=3470

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/431575/donald-trump-tim-obrien-courtroom-story

A old Frontline story about someone who knew trump well.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-frontline-interview-jack-odonnell/

[Lawndarter 3]

Overnight the City of Baltimore removed four monuments. And since North Carolina makes it hard to do by normal process, citizens of Durham decided to help them along by removing another.

Where else in the world are monuments to treason sacrosanct?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Lawndarter

Overnight the City of Baltimore removed four monuments. And since North Carolina makes it hard to do by normal process, citizens of Durham decided to help them along by removing another.

Where else in the world are monuments to treason sacrosanct?

Held sacrosanct by those who call themselves patriots

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Lawndarter

Overnight the City of Baltimore removed four monuments. And since North Carolina makes it hard to do by normal process, citizens of Durham decided to help them along by removing another.

Where else in the world are monuments to treason sacrosanct?

Well, you have to understand a couple things.

#1 - The South has been trying to "revise" history since shortly after the war. While the claim "it was about States' Rights, not slavery has some truth, the main "State's Right" they were fighting for was slavery.

#2 - Most of those monuments were not put up immediately after the Civil War.
Many were put up in the early 1900s, when states began codifying segregation into law.
More were put up in the 50s, when the Civil Rights movement began to pick up steam.

#3 - The Battle flag so commonly flown Southerners was simply the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia (Lee's army). It was never the flag of the Confederacy. It wasn't even the "Stars & Bars' (different flag).
It was relegated to history and obscurity until the 50s when the KKK adopted it as their symbol.
Kind of like how the swasika was a sign mainly used by Buddhists until the early 30s, and has since (and likely will for a long, long time) be recognized primarily as the symbol of the Nazis.

Interesting Story on this, and a bit more.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[kallend 2,027]

SkyDekker

***Overnight the City of Baltimore removed four monuments. And since North Carolina makes it hard to do by normal process, citizens of Durham decided to help them along by removing another.

Where else in the world are monuments to treason sacrosanct?

Held sacrosanct by those who call themselves patriots

Real patriots are like the 156,000 Allied troops who stormed a handful of beaches along the coast of Normandy on June 6, 1944 in order to free the world from Nazism and fascism.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 806]

Clearly, they were equally at fault, based upon recent perspectives on Nazis. /s

[billvon 3,008]

Quote

Real patriots are like the 156,000 Allied troops who stormed a handful of beaches along the coast of Normandy on June 6, 1944 in order to free the world from Nazism and fascism.

FAKE NEWS! The Confederacy and the Nazis stopped the evil German socialists during World War II. I know this because I check my sources very carefully before I say anything, not like most people here.