baskets of deplorables

[SkyDekker 1,465]

15 minutes ago, Coreece said:

If  your aim is to influence a particular group of people, then it's probably in your best interest to put forth an honest effort to understand them.

So building a wall to try and prevent people from coming into the US without trying to understand those people would be entirely useless as well right?

[Coreece 190]

19 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

36 minutes ago, Coreece said:

If  your aim is to influence a particular group of people, then it's probably in your best interest to put forth an honest effort to understand them.

So building a wall to try and prevent people from coming into the US without trying to understand those people would be entirely useless as well right?

Correct, and I expressed that sentiment in detail within that thread.

[Phil1111 1,149]

24 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

So building a wall to try and prevent people from coming into the US without trying to understand those people would be entirely useless as well right?

Coreece has no intent of understanding squat.

He has repeated again and again that I have stated that 100% of evangelicals support trump. Whereby I have quoted independent sources not once but probably twenty times that "Other religious groups voted for Trump as well, but none did so at the 81 percent level that white evangelicals did. Among Protestants, 58 percent voted for Trump; among white Catholics, 60 percent voted for Trump; among Mormons, 61 percent. In April 2017, approval of Trump had dropped among white mainline Protestants to 50 percent and among white Catholics to 53 percent. But among white evangelicals his approval rating stayed high, at 78 percent. "

Coreece has stated "So given that, about 38% of all white evangelicals actually voted for Trump."When he quotes from a Pew research study himself that shows that White evangelicals are 20% of the share of the electorate.

The Pew study Coreece quoted shows 77% voted for trump, 16% Clinton and he states in the same post that 38% did.

Here is a suggestion. Try not to interpret statistics.Don't put words in my mouth. Or provide the quote where by I said 100% of evangelicals voted for trump when your statement here was:

"I would like to see how you came to the conclusion that all, or most, or even a slight majority of white evangelicals voted for Trump and fit that description.  You may be tempted to post links about how "80-ish% of evangelicals voted for Trump," but you'd need to look at that number a bit more critically. "

Within the last three pages of this thread I have quoted the same story twice now. You have repeated more than once in the last two pages that I represented 100% of evangelicals did_____.

Try to keep your representations straight and what I stated straight. Try quoting me directly and quoting from independent sources directly. Interpretation isn't your strong point.

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Phil1111

[Coreece 190]

37 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Coreece has no intent of understanding squat.

He has repeated again and again that I have stated that 100% of evangelicals support trump. Whereby I have quoted independent sources not once but probably twenty times. . .

Try quoting me directly

This is exactly what you said:

"evangelical christianity. They call themselves christians but they're no more christian than Al-Baghdadi is a Muslim.

For all of them its about a political ideology that overrides the law and any commandments of christ."

 

That's about as all inclusive as you can get.

Which of those "independent sources that you quoted twenty times" supports you claim in that manner?

 

37 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

The Pew study Coreece quoted shows 77% voted for trump, 16% Clinton and he states in the same post that 38% did. 

Correct, 77% of the evangelicals that actually voted, voted for Trump.  I'm not denying the significance of that.

However, only 38% of ALL evangelicals in the country voted for Trump.  The reason that's relevant is because you were making a blanketed statement about ALL evangelicals and suggested that for ALL of them, it's ALL about politics and overrides ANY commandment of Christ.  But if only 38% of ALL evangelicals actually made it out to vote for Trump, then perhaps this religion really isn't as politically driven as you've claimed.

 

BTW, how does 77% represent "ALL OF THEM"

 

37 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Try to keep your representations straight and what I stated straight.

It's quite clear that you're the one that can't keep your representations straight.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Coreece

[billvon 2,995]

Another right wing terror attack thwarted.  Glad we have law enforcement able to take down such deplorables before they attack innocent people.  From NPR:

=====================

Charlottesville Schools Closed Following 'Racially Charged' Threat

March 22, 20192:31 PM ET

Police in Charlottesville, Va., say they have arrested a 17-year-old male in connection with a threat that "contained vile, racially charged language targeted African-American and Hispanic students" at an area high school.

At a news conference on Friday, police Chief RaShall Brackney said the suspect was believed to have made "threats to commit serious bodily harm to persons on school property" and to have carried out "harassment by computer."

=====================

[billvon 2,995]

One of Trump's "very fine people" expresses herself:

========================================

Nazi graffiti found at Oklahoma City Democratic Party, Chickasaw Nation buildings

Police released photos of a woman wanted for questioning in the incident.

March 28, 2019, 8:00 PM PDT

By Ali Gostanian and Phil Helsel MSNBC

Oklahoma City police were looking for a woman they want to question in connection with swastikas and other racist graffiti found at the state Democratic Party and Chickasaw Nation buildings in that city.

The graffiti was found at the Oklahoma Democratic Party headquarters and a Chickasaw Nation office, officials said. The spray-painted messages included the Nazi symbol, the numbers "1488," which is frequently used by white supremacists and refers to Adolf Hitler, and anti-Chinese slurs.

The Democratic Party and the Chickasaw Nation condemned the vandalism, as did the city’s mayor, the governor, two Congressman and others.

"One bigot with a spray paint can or even a group of bigots do not speak for the hundreds of thousands in this city who stand strongly together against hate & bigotry," Mayor David Holt, a Republican, said in a tweeted statement Thursday.  .  .  .

Republican Gov. Kevin Stitt called the vandalism "abhorrent." U.S. Reps. Tom Cole and Markwayne Mullin, both Republicans and Native Americans, condemned the images.

"As a member of the Chickasaw Nation, I am absolutely disgusted by the racist vandalism on my tribe’s Oklahoma City Area Office. I was also sickened by the incident at the Oklahoma Democratic Party headquarters,” Cole said.

"There is no place in our communities for such despicable symbols and language so clearly meant to threaten other human beings and those with differing points of view," he said.

======================

Can't wait for Trump to call Cole "Big Chief Cole-um" or some such.

[billvon 2,995]

Today's deplorable - a right wing thug wanting to kill several lawmakers, specifically Eric Swalwell, Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar and Cory Booker.  Fortunately police stopped him before he could act on his threats.

An excerpt from one of his emails:  "It was your Taliban bitch, the one who opened up her fucking towel-head mouth about how 'some people did it.'  You know what? She's lucky she's just getting death threats, bitch. So are you. All right?  You're lucky they're just threats, motherfucker, 'cause the day when the bell tolls, whore, and this country comes to a war, there will be no more threats. Your life will be on the fucking line."

[JerryBaumchen 1,364]

28 minutes ago, billvon said:

An excerpt from one of his emails: 

Hi Bill,

And he probably goes to church every Sunday.

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 2,995]

3 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Bill,

And he probably goes to church every Sunday.

Jerry Baumchen

And claims that liberals are the real racists/sexists.

[billvon 2,995]

Today we have another right wing terrorist stopped before he went on a killing spree.  He was planning to try to assassinate Obama and Clinton.  Ironically he refers to his "group" as the "United Constitutional Patriots" - and they made a name for themselves trying to "detain" (kidnap) asylum seekers in New Mexico.

Right wing terrorism is getting to be a very serious threat. 

=================================

NYT Apr 22 2019

LAS CRUCES, N.M. — Before the F.B.I. arrested Larry Hopkins, the leader of the right-wing militia that detained migrant families in the New Mexico desert, he’d had so many run-ins with the law that his police record stretched across much of the United States.

Oregon police arrested him in 2006 on charges of impersonating a police officer and a felony weapons offense. They had found him showing guns to teenagers in a gas-station parking lot while wearing a police-style uniform and a badge emblazoned with the words “Special Agent.”

“Hopkins stated that he worked for the federal government directly under George Bush,” Officer Jack Daniel of the sheriff’s office in Klamath County, Ore., wrote in his report. Mr. Hopkins, the report said, claimed variously to be investigating a meth lab, hunting fugitives and undertaking unspecified “operations” in Afghanistan.

Officials in South Dakota indicted Mr. Hopkins in 2009 on charges of failure to pay child support. Long before then, Mr. Hopkins pleaded guilty in 1996 in Michigan to felony possession of a loaded firearm and was sentenced to 16 months to two years in prison.

Mr. Hopkins finally came under the scrutiny of federal authorities in 2017, after the F.B.I. received reports that his group was “training” to assassinate Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and George Soros, according to documents unsealed Monday in federal court.

Mr. Hopkins, 69, appeared in Federal District Court on Monday after his arrest over the weekend on yet another charge, this time of being a felon in possession of firearms and ammunition.

The arrest followed the posting online of a series of videos by Mr. Hopkins’s group, which calls itself the United Constitutional Patriots, showing men in camouflage circling and detaining hundreds of migrants in the desert near Sunland Park, N.M., and then handing the migrants over to Border Patrol.

======================================

[kallend 2,027]

So Trump persists in defending the Charlottesville white supremacists by invoking Robert E. Lee as a "great general".

Lee fought for the breakup of the United States of America, for the establishment of a slave republic, and for the cause of white supremacy.  If these are attributes worthy of praise in a commander on a losing side in a war with the USA, we should also raise statues to Rommel, Guderian and Doenitz.

 

[billvon 2,995]

Today a man screaming "Jews are ruining the world" stormed a synagogue near me and opened fire.  He killed one woman and injured several others, including a girl who was shot in the face.  Before his shooting spree it looks like he posted a manifesto on 8chan, a forum known as a home for right wing extremists and incels.

What is sad about this is that it's become so common that it won't make much of a blip.  Another hate crime, another few people dead and wounded, another deplorable arrested.  And next month it will happen again.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Well, there's no indication one way or another if this guy supported Trump, but he deliberately rammed his car into a crowd, thinking they were Muslim.

According to this story, he was 'praising Jesus' as he was being led away in handcuffs.

 

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/04/26/teen-girl-clings-to-life-as-sunnyvale-crash-driver-set-for-arraignment/

[Coreece 190]

On 4/23/2019 at 12:58 PM, billvon said:

Right wing terrorism is getting to be a very serious threat. 

What is sad about this is that it's become so common . . .

Interesting.  Last month you posted info from the Global Terror Index about how far right terrorism is on the rise with "66 deaths and launched 127 attacks" worldwide over a 5 year period.  Now you're saying they're becoming so common!  And a very serious threat!

But when Bigun posted info about the 219,000 violent crime convictions of illegal aliens over a 10 year period, including nearly 500 murder convictions of 1000+ murder charges in Texas alone, you trivialized it.

Do you honestly see no conflict, bias or hypocrisy with that?

[turtlespeed 220]

6 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Interesting.  Last month you posted info from the Global Terror Index about how far right terrorism is on the rise with "66 deaths and launched 127 attacks" worldwide over a 5 year period.  Now you're saying they're becoming so common!  And a very serious threat!

But when Bigun posted info about the 219,000 violent crime convictions of illegal aliens over a 10 year period, including nearly 500 murder convictions of 1000+ murder charges in Texas alone, you trivialized it.

Do you honestly see no conflict, bias or hypocrisy with that?

It feels that way though - 

 

Its all about the feels.

 

The lefts new slogan:

Feels - Not Facts!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

52 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Interesting.  Last month you posted info from the Global Terror Index about how far right terrorism is on the rise with "66 deaths and launched 127 attacks" worldwide over a 5 year period.  Now you're saying they're becoming so common!  And a very serious threat!

But when Bigun posted info about the 219,000 violent crime convictions of illegal aliens over a 10 year period, including nearly 500 murder convictions of 1000+ murder charges in Texas alone, you trivialized it.

Do you honestly see no conflict, bias or hypocrisy with that?

Ahh comparing apples to oranges. That makes sense.

Bigun's received the comments he got because crime from US citizens is a much bigger problem than crime from illegal aliens. I mean in 10 years there are more than 12,000,000 violent crimes.

The rise in far right terrorism is related, but still a separate issue. Though the rise in this far right violence is probably partly attributable to this increased desire to blame illegal immigrants for problems in which legal citizens play much bigger roles.

So if there is hypocrisy, it really is more on legal US citizens who have a much bigger issue with being non-violent, pointing to illegal immigrants as a source of violence.

[Coreece 190]

24 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

crime from US citizens is a much bigger problem than crime from illegal aliens.

And crime from illegal aliens is a much bigger problem than crime from far right terrorists according to Bill's Global Terror Index stat.

The outrage or whatever is disproportionate.

 

26 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

the rise in this far right violence is probably partly attributable to this increased desire to blame illegal immigrants for problems

More likely a desire to maintain a white American/Nationalist identity.

[turtlespeed 220]

55 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Ahh comparing apples to oranges. That makes sense.

Bigun's received the comments he got because crime from US citizens is a much bigger problem than crime from illegal aliens. I mean in 10 years there are more than 12,000,000 violent crimes.

The rise in far right terrorism is related, but still a separate issue. Though the rise in this far right violence is probably partly attributable to this increased desire to blame illegal immigrants for problems in which legal citizens play much bigger roles.

So if there is hypocrisy, it really is more on legal US citizens who have a much bigger issue with being non-violent, pointing to illegal immigrants as a source of violence.

Your logic is very flawed - you don't get to use the word "probably" then state the reason for made up hypocrisy as a fact.

Also - deliberately misunderstanding that Coreece pointing out the discrepancies of the numbers is novel.  Its pretty clear that the numbers that Bigun referenced . . . the  "219,000 violent crime convictions of illegal aliens over a 10 year period, including nearly 500 murder convictions of 1000+ murder charges in Texas alone."  And then you trivializing it like that isn't anything even close to an important fact, and while you take the number of 127 attacks and 66 deaths being MORE significant, somehow than 1000's . . . Using a small number as a statistic to try to show the amounts in a light that was more unfavorable, yet ignoring the importance of a very similar metric, all the while, toting the party line, calling for allowing more illegal aliens into the US.

Another example of your flawed logic.

 

[SkyDekker 1,465]

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Your logic is very flawed - you don't get to use the word "probably" then state the reason for made up hypocrisy as a fact.

"Probably" is a pretty good indication that what follows is an opinion. I can understand you might have a problem identifying fact from opinion, considering your penchant of posting fake pictures as fact.

 

9 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

being MORE significant,

I didn't say anything was "more significant" than anything else in my post. Why do you have to make things up to try and make a point? Maybe add a photoshopped image to make yourself feel better?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

48 minutes ago, Coreece said:

The outrage or whatever is disproportionate.

I haven't seen any outrage. Nor do I understand why you would think this is an "either/or" scenario.

Violent crime is a problem. The rise in far right extremism is a problem too. Trump having allowed a dramatic rise in illegal immigration is a problem too. Obama did a lot better on that front. Looks like if you are looking to curtail illegal immigration you are better off voting Democrat.

But I have this feeling that for many people narrative is more important than results. Hard to blame other people when there are less other people.

[Coreece 190]

39 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Violent crime is a problem. The rise in far right extremism is a problem too.

Why don't you just lump that in with violent crime as well?

[gowlerk 2,198]

8 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Why don't you just lump that in with violent crime as well?

Because not all far right extremism is criminal? Remember, there are fine people on both sides.

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by gowlerk

[Coreece 190]

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

10 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Why don't you just lump that in with violent crime as well?

Because not all far right extremism is criminal?

In case you haven't noticed,  we're talking about the criminals

[billvon 2,995]

3 hours ago, Coreece said:

Interesting.  Last month you posted info from the Global Terror Index about how far right terrorism is on the rise with "66 deaths and launched 127 attacks" worldwide over a 5 year period.  Now you're saying they're becoming so common!  And a very serious threat!

But when Bigun posted info about the 219,000 violent crime convictions of illegal aliens over a 10 year period, including nearly 500 murder convictions of 1000+ murder charges in Texas alone, you trivialized it.

Do you honestly see no conflict, bias or hypocrisy with that?

?? Not taking issue with something that has larger numbers is "hypocrisy?"

In that case, your not even mentioning the 39,773 gun death in the US in 2018 is  . . . what?  39 times more hypocritical? And not mentioning the 16,000 US murders by US citizens a year is 16 times as hypocritical?

Were the people who condemned Al Qaeda after the 9/11 attacks hypocrites as well for bemoaning the deaths of "only" 3000 people when far more people are killed from other causes?

I was on a crusade for a while to separate landing areas because I thought that collisions under canopy were a big problem.  I even got the group member pledge changed.  Was I a hypocrite because that never accounted for more than 25% of the skydiving deaths a year?

I don't think you've thought this through very much.

 

[Coreece 190]

4 minutes ago, billvon said:

3 hours ago, Coreece said:

with "66 deaths and launched 127 attacks" worldwide over a 5 year period.  Now you're saying they're becoming so common!  And a very serious threat!

But when Bigun posted info about the 219,000 violent crime convictions of illegal aliens over a 10 year period, including nearly 500 murder convictions of 1000+ murder charges in Texas alone, you trivialized it.

Do you honestly see no conflict, bias or hypocrisy with that? 

?? Not taking issue with something that has larger numbers is "hypocrisy?" 

Ok, so two out of three?