Video: Pilot Chute in Tow on your Reserve?

[Deyan 36]

LeeroyJenkins

I really wish I saved it. I know it’s floating around here somewhere. There is a set of pictures comparing the old RPC to the new RPC and is is quite different.

I made those pictures, but they fall under " unsourced hearsay here on DZ.com" so that makes the redesign of the RPC not real. Kinda like the "flat Earth believers" don't trust the pictures from NASA.
But here's another one I took 5 min ago. Once again, I don't work for Sunrise rigging , so this is probably a fake one as well ;)

And just to calm that dude down, they don't have to release an SB if they change the design. Did you see an SB from UPT when they switched from tuck tab riser covers to magnetic?

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[jerolim 7]

Quote

As for the corners, I’m not a rigger, but when I compared my javelin to my wings they are nearly identical. The only noticeable difference is the bottom corners are stitched in a little more. About an inch on the wings. The top corners look the same.

An inch of stitching can make a world of difference. Freebag needs to rotate before leaving reserve tray and bottom corners are preventing that motion. It personally think that stitching plays bigger role than PC in this case.

[LeeroyJenkins 3]

jerolim

Quote

As for the corners, I’m not a rigger, but when I compared my javelin to my wings they are nearly identical. The only noticeable difference is the bottom corners are stitched in a little more. About an inch on the wings. The top corners look the same.

An inch of stitching can make a world of difference. Freebag needs to rotate before leaving reserve tray and bottom corners are preventing that motion. It personally think that stitching plays bigger role than PC in this case.

Javelin bottom corners are sewn too. Wings are a little bit more. People say boxy reserve trey without comparing it to other very similar designs.


Thanks for the pic. The new PC is on the left for those wondering.

[Deyan 36]

Quote

Thanks for the pic. The new PC is on the RIGHTfor those wondering.

That's better ;)

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[mathrick 2]

LeeroyJenkins

I really wish I saved it. I know it’s floating around here somewhere. There is a set of pictures comparing the old RPC to the new RPC and is is quite different.

What’s hard to inspect and comes out during freefall? I think you mean the reserve pin flap. I have no clue how that would come undone.

As for the corners, I’m not a rigger, but when I compared my javelin to my wings they are nearly identical. The only noticeable difference is the bottom corners are stitched in a little more. About an inch on the wings. The top corners look the same.

Yeah, sorry, I do mean the reserve pin flap. I also have no idea how, but I've seen far too many Wings where the pin flap just pops open if you so much as look at it funny. And it's hard to inspect, because you can't just open it, so you have to peel it far back, all the way to the retainer strap, to be able to see the pin properly, and even then it's at an awkward angle. That might also have something to do with the flap eventually developing a propensity for opening on its own.

The bottom corners being more sewn in is the point exactly, and it can make a huge difference. These corners are sewn in to prevent the freebag from coming out too easily (and thus prevent out of sequence deployment and freebag strips, which would be disastrous). Overdo it, and you now have created a reserve tray where the freebag doesn't come out at all if the angle is wrong. Which seems like the line Wings has crossed.

Deyan

I made those pictures, but they fall under " unsourced hearsay here on DZ.com" so that makes the redesign of the RPC not real. Kinda like the "flat Earth believers" don't trust the pictures from NASA.
But here's another one I took 5 min ago. Once again, I don't work for Sunrise rigging , so this is probably a fake one as well ;)

And just to calm that dude down, they don't have to release an SB if they change the design. Did you see an SB from UPT when they switched from tuck tab riser covers to magnetic?

I have no problem believing these pictures, but these pictures have never been mentioned any other time anyone claimed the redesign. And also, if the best source is someone going "and they did it again in 2017 I think?", then that very much continues to be hearsay. Either your RPC needs a redesign, and you communicate that, or it doesn't. Watercooler stories on the interwebs don't cut it IMHO.

And RPCs are kinda very different from riser covers, for multiple reasons. One, riser covers are not TSO'd components and are rarely critical for the proper operation of the system. You can have two different designs in different rigs where one of them is a "nice to have" upgrade for those who want to pay extra without compromising safety. Which is exactly how it works with most manufacturers. If an RPC on the other hand warrants a redesign, I want to know why that is, and I want to see an SB that explains it detail, together with whether it's an optional, recommended or mandatory change. Two, you're not going to swap riser covers on a rig or move them between rigs. They won't get lost and need to be bought from the spare parts catalogue, so there's no question of compatibility. For RPCs, it's entirely different, and I want compatibility spelt out explicitly, even if it's to say "both old and new design are 100% compatible with all rigs out on the market". Those are not trivial matters, those are things required to rig stuff properly to the professional and legal standard that I need.

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[pchapman 279]

Quote

If an RPC on the other hand warrants a redesign, I want to know why that is, and I want to see an SB that explains it detail, together with whether it's an optional, recommended or mandatory change. Two, you're not going to swap riser covers on a rig or move them between rigs. They won't get lost and need to be bought from the spare parts catalogue, so there's no question of compatibility. For RPCs, it's entirely different,

That's a very good point.

Although to be fair, even reserve PC/freebag changes get made without big announcements. Hopefully they are at least in the manual.

E.g.:
--Javelin reserve PC's didn't have support tapes on the fabric portion, but later they did. (From the Odyssey version onwards? Not sure. Maybe related to that old torn-PC-lawsuit. Most but not 100% of other RPC's have the tape.) Not announced in any manual that I recall, but only the latest version is available as spare parts.

-- Aerodyne Icon freebags had tape buffers added around the velcro of the openable line stow pouch. That was for example meantioned in a document when they announced their model upgrade to the Nexgen line of Icons.

[Edit: Although the Wings issue is more significant in that it is an aerodynamic change to the deployment system.]

I'm just putting things in context, although I still tend towards wanting companies to announce changes clearly and openly as you do. Companies don't like to make it seem like a prior product was 'bad', even if the latest product is 'better than ever!'.

Presumably if there's no SB, or warning in the manual, either the older version or newer version is perfectly legal in a newer or older rig.

[LeeroyJenkins 3]

mathrick,

I do not doubt your account. I will get you pics of my new Wings tomorrow so you can see what we are working with in 2018.

[mathrick 2]

Sorry, I did not in any way intend to cast doubt on your reliability. The only reason I was referring to "hearsay" is that there's no actual communication from the mfg nor a complete, unified account of changes, and the DZ.com grapevine, as it were, is not really a proper substitute. The only party to blame for that is, of course, the mfg, and not the fine folk here. Apologies if I offended anyone!

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[LeeroyJenkins 3]

mathrick

Sorry, I did not in any way intend to cast doubt on your reliability. The only reason I was referring to "hearsay" is that there's no actual communication from the mfg nor a complete, unified account of changes, and the DZ.com grapevine, as it were, is not really a proper substitute. The only party to blame for that is, of course, the mfg, and not the fine folk here. Apologies if I offended anyone!

No offense was taken or intended. I disagree with your assessment and this may be due to tweaks to the 2018 model. I wanted to provide pictures to you so we could all be on the same page.

[Westerly 61]

So I guess the revised moral of the story is don't buy an old Wings container?

[LeeroyJenkins 3]

Westerly

So I guess the revised moral of the story is don't buy an old Wings container?

At the minimum get a new RPC.

[LeeroyJenkins 3]

New reserve pin cover is super easy to check.

[mathrick 2]

Do you have a wider shot of the flap, both closed and open if possible?

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[betzilla 56]

Quote

New reserve pin cover is super easy to check.

What's "new" about it? That looks identical to the same 2 square-inch section of any Wings I've ever seen. Also, your pin isn't seated all the way.

[LeeroyJenkins 3]

betzilla

Quote

New reserve pin cover is super easy to check.

What's "new" about it? That looks identical to the same 2 square-inch section of any Wings I've ever seen. Also, your pin isn't seated all the way.

The person I was talking to said it was difficult to check. I assume his experience was with an older wings since my 2018 Wings’s is easy to check.

Edit: Attached pictures.