Packing Racer Reserves

[gowlerk 2,190]

HPC

Because as I mentioned in my OP, jumpers either love Racers or hate them. I've never seen a piece of skydiving equipment polarize a group as much as this rig.

Not all jumpers have strong feelings about them. But jumpers in general get stupidly emotional about the strangest things. Whether it's gear choice and especially AAD choice, training methods, or disciplines, so many jumpers think that the only way to do things is the way they learned.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[councilman24 37]

Not in the thread about age, which I was referring to where you didn't like rounds being brought up.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[masterrigger1 2]

Quote

Like you, I'd love to hear from someone who won't pack them, and their reason why (other than the Canadian rigger who posted that 2-pin reserves are a separate rating that he doesn't have, and wouldn't be worth getting).

If it has a speed bag instead of a standard freebag...No I will not pack it.

The Speed Bag uses rubberbands instead of a stow pouch. This means that is is more prone to a freebag lock than the standard freebag simply because it has more locking stows.

It was not long after the release of the Speed bag that a girl died using one in NJ which attributed to the death according to the investigator on site.

If you end up with a mess like this, the last thing you want is a bunch of locking stows to have to pull out before you can get the canopy out of the bag.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FJp0Ku-6gg

or this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFSivezl80E


I used to train riggers on the finer points of the Racer. No longer since they went solely to the Speed Bag.


MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[HPC 7]

Quote

But jumpers in general get stupidly emotional about the strangest things.

Isn't that the truth!!

What's right isn't always popular and what's popular isn't always right.

[HPC 7]

But this is a totally different thread!
So now we're crossing threads??
Threads should be viewed individually, just like riggers view each rig/reserve individually before they decide whether or not to pack them.
Again, my thread regarding the Racer stipulated a PDR reserve, quite clearly. Could we please stay on this thread and not confuse things by crossing apples and oranges?

What's right isn't always popular and what's popular isn't always right.

[HPC 7]

EXCELLENT information, thank you. I will look into this with P-Labs and get their take on it.
I love it when a poster includes lots of information and references. Great post!

What's right isn't always popular and what's popular isn't always right.

[HPC 7]

Quote

I used to train riggers on the finer points of the Racer. No longer since they went solely to the Speed Bag.

Do you know about when they went solely with the speed bag? Or if a standard freebag is still an option? Thanks.

What's right isn't always popular and what's popular isn't always right.

[HPC 7]

Looks like his rig was an Aerodyne - elongated middle ring.

What's right isn't always popular and what's popular isn't always right.

[HPC 7]

Quote

By the way fill in your profile so we know who the hell we're talking to.Mad

Sorry, no can do. I'm the Phantom Swahili Skydiver on a mission to teach DZ.com forum posters Swahili so that they can understand my posts.

What's right isn't always popular and what's popular isn't always right.

[councilman24 37]

You crossed posts in post 33 No profile I'm done.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[gowlerk 2,190]

councilman24

You crossed posts in post 33 No profile I'm done.

Yup, I'm pretty sure HPC has an agenda and is not willing to disclose it. I'm out as well.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[HPC 7]

Yes, I have an agenda - it's to find out why some riggers won't repack reserves in Racer rigs. It's that simple, and it's nothing more than that. Thanks to those posters who stuck to the subject and provided great info - you know who you are, your help is much appreciated.

What's right isn't always popular and what's popular isn't always right.

[HPC 7]

If you really wanted to know why I asked the question regarding packing Racer reserves, instead of assuming I had an agenda all you had to do was post the question "Why do you ask?"
I would gladly have answered.
Of course, it's easier and faster to just make an assumption that is probably wrong rather than ask someone a question and get the truth.

What's right isn't always popular and what's popular isn't always right.

[HPC 7]

No, I didn't cross posts. I merely commented that the guy's rig in the youtube video provided by another poster was jumping an Aerodyne rig, and not a Racer. It was a relevant observation. What's the title of the post I crossed?

What's right isn't always popular and what's popular isn't always right.

[masterrigger1 2]

Quote

Looks like his rig was an Aerodyne - elongated middle ring.

Both rigs in the videos were other than Racer rigs.Thank goodness! They probably would be dead if they had a Speed Bag instead of a standard type freebag.

MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

My feeling is there are TSO'd equipment and if someone wants to tamper with any rig - its possible without leaving any obvious signs. Anyone I pack for I'm more than happy to tighten the reserve pilot chute as the pack job settles.

I’m not talking tampering. Just normal use and good intentions. I have heard of the owner causing an extremely hard pull after tightening the closing loops to fix a raised PC.

Tacking the extra loop does not solve this issue.

Derek V

[faulknerwn 38]

Can you provide a link to an incident report or something about that Speed Bag Incident? I have been jumping Racers (with all sorts of reserve bags) for 25 years and have never heard of a Speed Bag contributing to a fatality.

And I am a rigger, and I own 12ish Racers, and have had over 20 reserve rides on my Racers over the years (CRW, spinning ellipticals, other random things - none the container's fault), with varying types of bags.

That saying I am not a huge fan of the speed bag but they don't scare me.

[masterrigger1 2]

Quote

Can you provide a link to an incident report or something about that Speed Bag Incident? I have been jumping Racers (with all sorts of reserve bags) for 25 years and have never heard of a Speed Bag contributing to a fatality.

Talk to Dave DeWolf about it. He investigated it for the DZ as I recall.

MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[HPC 7]

Was there a problem with the standard bag that caused them to change over exclusively to the speed bag? If so, do you know what it was?

What's right isn't always popular and what's popular isn't always right.

[masterrigger1 2]

No problems with the standard bag.

The new Freebag was geared to the head down people.

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[HPC 7]

It's a shame then that they don't offer the standard bag to those who want them. It should be an option.

What's right isn't always popular and what's popular isn't always right.

[RMURRAY 1]

i use the speedbag for my main for years. no issues at all.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

i use the speedbag for my main for years. no issues at all.

How many unstable deployments in those years?

Derek V

[RMURRAY 1]

i would have absolutely no issues using the reserve speed bag. my rig is just old so does not have one.

[skytribe 17]

Hooknswoop

Quote

My feeling is there are TSO'd equipment and if someone wants to tamper with any rig - its possible without leaving any obvious signs. Anyone I pack for I'm more than happy to tighten the reserve pilot chute as the pack job settles.

I’m not talking tampering. Just normal use and good intentions. I have heard of the owner causing an extremely hard pull after tightening the closing loops to fix a raised PC.

Tacking the extra loop does not solve this issue.

Derek V

But your concerned about people tightening the loops (which is tampering). How often does that really happen - especially if you make a point of letting the jumper know that if the pilot chute sits up then bring it back and i'll tighten it.

I have more concern with other riggers opening pack jobs that they didn't do to put in AAD's and then thinking its acceptable to reseal the pack job in direct violation of AC105.

Not that I'm advocating it but just a thought (thinking out load) - is it possible to seal the free ends of the quickloop and then put them under the cap - that way they would likely be broken if otherwise used after the original pack job. Even paper seals could be used to seal the free ends together.