Brake fire on opening - what caused it and how to avoid ?

[lintern 1]

On sunday I had a malfunction.

I was doing a hop and pop from 6k and pulled at 4k5.

I had a poor opening, it spun me 180 degrees then suddenly spun me again another 180 degrees.

I thought it was going to induce twists but it didnt.

For a short time everything seemed to be alright after that - the left end cells werent fully inflated but they soon inflated.

I just thought to myself it was a bad opening.

As I went to reach for my toggles the canopy suddenly dived to the right before I had chance to unstow them.

Because of the strange opening and because it was uncontrollably diving to the right I knew something wasnt right so decided to chop.

I cut away and pulled my reserve without further incident.

When I landed an instrcutor and myself inspected the main and saw that the left toggle was unstowed, therefore concluding it was a brake fire.

The instructor said it sounded like a brake fire before even inspecting the main.

If I had realised what the problem was and reacted quickly enough I presume I could have unstowed the right toggle and wouldnt have needed to chop ?

But at the time I didnt know what the problem was and wasted no time in getting off it.

My question is, how did the toggle become unstowed and how can I ensure it doesnt happen again ?

Afterall, I had packed it !

Thinking back to when I packed it, I remember the left toggle seemed to be stowed a bit strange, but after a quick look it appeared to be alright.

So maybe I didnt stow the toggle correctly afterall ?

But people have also said its can be just one of those things and that sometimes on opening a toggle can become unstowed, especially on toggles without velcro.

I will obviously pay closer attention to my stowed toggles in future.

I tend to stow my toggles when I land so as not to induce twists in the brake lines.

Has anyone had any similar experiences or can anyone offer advice to prevent this from happening again ?

[rehmwa 2]

I had this happen on my old rig (Javelin with a Sabre).

The toggle end tucked (like normal) into the elastic keeper on the riser. Never an issue.

Then I replaced the links with soft links - key point here. I also had mini-risers.

Started to have exactly your type of issue. Dump, everything is fine, then, at the very end of the opening sequence, hard turn one way. I caught it right away and just reached up and unstowed the other brake, but on a higher performance canopy, it could be a real issue. It became an infrequent issue, but often enough that it wasn't disturbing any more.

So what happens at the very end of the sequence up near your stowed toggles?

Answer: the slider finishes it's descent and hits whatever is acting as a stop. In this case, the tip of one of the toggles.

In this scenario (maybe yours) I suspect one can:

1 - change the elastic keeper to one with a closed end.
2 - put in some kind of stop - like bumpers or something
3 - get the keepers replaced so they are tighter
4 - etc etc - your rigger can like come up with something simple
5 - (thanks Tonto) - get the risers replaced

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[tdog 0]

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Has anyone had any similar experiences or can anyone offer advice to prevent this from happening again ?

I have not had it happen myself, or even come close. I have the Relative Workshop toggles/risers, with a metal pin on the toggles, I believe they are called "truelock".

But I did do a three way with a guy who I watched open and then saw a brake fire from above. I looked down and said, "he has a brake fire... Come on dude, grab the toggles and fly out of it..." It took him forever before he chopped... I guess he was trying to fly out of it using his rears.

Anyway - now that you have had it once you will next time try popping your toggles if there is time? I think, since I have seen it myself a few times, I will remember to do the same the first time it happens to me?

I actually have had my toggles stick where the loop on the control line sticks around the toggle tab, so I know the feeling of a brake fire turn for my current canopy.... I have also on purpose popped one side to see what the turn felt like, knowing I can pull that side down to level flight if need be... I guess you could try these things too, to get more comfortable.

But, cutting away and pulling your reserve is never a bad thing when you are in doubt or are out of time, so I would not second guess yourself too much...

[Tonto 1]

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But people have also said its can be just one of those things and that sometimes on opening a toggle can become unstowed, especially on toggles without velcro.

I have to call bullshit on this.

You looked at the brake. It looked "a bit funny."

Stuff doesn't just come undone, and if it does, it's old, worn and needs to be replaced.

Different manufacturers give different lifetimes for components. I jump a Mirage, and I think it's 400 dives on a set of risers. That may seem early to many, but if you stick to the manufacturers recomendations - you'll have less exciting stories to tell in the long run.

I replace bag, risers and PC on an annual basis. It works out OK for me.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[rehmwa 2]

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Different manufacturers give different lifetimes for components. I jump a Mirage, and I think it's 400 dives on a set of risers. ....

I replace bag, risers and PC on an annual basis. It works out OK for me.

thanks for that bit, I hadn't thought of periodically replacing any component other than line sets - I'll look into it. The "new" rig has quite a few jumps on it currently.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Tonto 1]

If you earn money with your rig - it seems prudent to spend money to keep it going. At our DZ I can be manifested on 10 back to back loads. Having a rig down means it either costs me money - or I need to borrow gear, and I don't borrow gear on working skydives.

The annual order is easy to time and perform, and goes along with a new set of batteries in my Dytter. (Neptunes need a more regular replacement cycle.)

My line sets are checked at 200, 400, 600 and replaced at 800.

I used to have shocking gear, and had many avoidable malfunctions.
After a tandem reserve malfunction my faith in reserves disipated somewhat, and maintenance is now my 1st line of defence.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[billvon 2,998]

>If I had realised what the problem was and reacted quickly enough
>I presume I could have unstowed the right toggle and wouldnt have
>needed to chop ?

Yes.

>My question is, how did the toggle become unstowed and how can
>I ensure it doesnt happen again ?

There are a great many ways for a toggle to come unstowed.

The riser covers could be very poor, thus exposing the toggle to the air. Enough wind can work it loose.

Unstowed brake line can snag on the corner of the rig, pulling the toggle out of the keeper.

Worn toggle hoods can allow the slider to kick the toggle out as it comes down.

>But people have also said its can be just one of those things and that
> sometimes on opening a toggle can become unstowed, especially on
>toggles without velcro.

I find velcroless toggles to be a bit more secure than velcro toggles, because people tend to not maintain their gear. A worn velcroless toggle is generally less likely to release than a worn velcro toggle.

>Has anyone had any similar experiences or can anyone offer advice to
>prevent this from happening again ?

If you have a question about your canopy's landability, do the standard control check:

Turn right
Turn left
Flare

If you can do all those things, it's generally safe to land. (Doing that will also fix the brake-release problem.)

[mjosparky 4]

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I find velcroless toggles to be a bit more secure than velcro toggles, because people tend to not maintain their gear. A worn velcroless toggle is generally less likely to release than a worn velcro toggle.

A brake coming unstowed was not a problem before Velcro less toggle became the norm.

Probably the biggest cause for a "brake fire" is the jumper reaching up for the risers and pulling the toggle loose. This was harder to do with Velcro toggles.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[billvon 2,998]

>A brake coming unstowed was not a problem before Velcro less toggle became the norm.

We had that problem regularly on our student rigs in NY because the velcro was effectively gone. I have a few videos from years back that showed people's velcro toggles floating above their rigs in freefall.

>Probably the biggest cause for a "brake fire" is the jumper
>reaching up for the risers and pulling the toggle loose.

Hmm, none of my brake fires have been due to grabbing them. Most of them were due to poor toggle protection systems and a slider that slammed down onto the toggles. But I agree, pulling on risers can cause it as well.

[mjosparky 4]

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We had that problem regularly on our student rigs in NY

Comparing student gear with personal gear is apples and oranges.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[rehmwa 2]

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We had that problem regularly on our student rigs in NY

Comparing student gear with personal gear is apples and oranges.

ya know, on the weekends, I really should try to eat more fruit during the day instead of just trail mix

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[JohnRich 4]

Dang! Pack a fire extinguisher!

Oh, I get it; you mean that it "released".

I have trouble figuring out how something inert can "fire".

At least you spelled "brake" correctly!

[kelpdiver 2]

I had a couple of these last year - one involved a riser smacking me in the face, the other was bad line twists. Both point to body position and the wings risers don't have a keeper for the excess. I've since changed how I stow them.

On the first, I stopped the spiral by grabbing the other rear riser. Second time that wasn't enough to fix, pulled the second toggle to clear it out.

[darkwing 5]

In addition to what has been said by others, a common cause of brake fires is due to rigging error when the brakes were set during packing.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[psipike02 0]

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In addition to what has been said by others, a common cause of brake fires is due to rigging error when the brakes were set during packing.

Yeah thats what happened to me about 2 weeks ago. The riser wasn't in the eye and busted the keeper on opening. Put me in line twists which I kicked out of and then sent me into a spiral, not violent, but fast.

Decided that if it got worse when I unstowed the brakes, I was outta there, as soon as I did, it flew straight.....wasn't too bad... just stay heads up about it and practice your EP's and you'll be fine

Puttin' some stank on it.

----Hellfish #707----

[tbrown 26]

When you open you should always do a controllability check as soon as safely possible. Should be no problem if you're throwing it out as high as 4.5k. By doing a controllability check you're automatically releasing both your brakes to turn left & right, then flare. If you did have a toggle misfire, this simple control check should straighten you out right then & there. Controllability checks are boring, but without them how do you know your wing is safe to fly at all ? I even say "boring" out loud when I'm doing mine, but I do it just the same. It's basic safer skydiving.

As for stowing toggles and packing, I think people are mistaken to set their brakes when they land. There are too many distrctions competing for their attention. Stowing the toggle to prevent spinning the line up is fine, but the real stow is for the packing area, where you can focus on what you're doing.

When you set your brakes, simply take a moment to tug on the brake line and WATCH to see that the metal guid ring is holding the toggle in place. Toggle should be BELOW the guide ring and this is where most people screw up - it's where I screwed up the last time I opened with a misfire. Just look closely, tug on the brake line enough to see that everything's correct on both toggles and you're good to go.

And whether you use a packer or do your own packing, you should always be the one to set your brakes, set your kill line, and re-open your collapsed slider. If you don't do it, well who knows ?

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[blithedj 0]

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And whether you use a packer or do your own packing, you should always be the one to set your brakes, set your kill line, and re-open your collapsed slider. If you don't do it, well who knows ?

I don't plan on using a packer that often at all for my jumping... But this really resonates with me as a good idea. Thanks for the tip.

[JohnMitchell 16]

A few things that might help.

1- When you set your brakes, yank sharply upwards on the steering line above the keeper ring, same as the canopy will do on opening. If it comes undone, you've set the brakes incorrectly.

2- Have a rigger inspect your risers and toggles, making sure every component in in proper working order.

3- My rule for low speed (mostly inflated) partial malfunctions is that you get two hard pumps of the brakes to try and fix the problem. If it doesn't fix it, cut away as usual. HOWEVER, keep track of altitude. That day you had plenty of time to fix your problem. But if you're ever low and spinning hard, it's time to chop. The two pumps are always if time permits.

[k_marr08 0]

I'm very new, but have had 2 toggle problems already - one was unstowed (could have been from the hard opening I had on that jump) and due to good instruction I knew that if the canopy is turning on its own grab the toggles and try to turn it the other way - so did that and that unstowed the other toggle and it was fine. the second problem was a little scarier - the small knot that stops the toggle from going through the little metal ring, went through the metal ring. so it was basically stuck in full flight and took me a good 2000 feet of yanking and pushing the knot back through to fix it for a safe landing. (thank god I opened high in order to perform some maneuvers for A requirements) pretty sure that last one was a packing problem but showed it to the rigger at my dz and I believe he's going to make adjustments.

"I believe the risks I take are justified by the sheer love of the life I lead" - Charles Lindbergh

[tbrown 26]

The second problem was a little scarier - the small knot that stops the toggle from going through the little metal ring, went through the metal ring. so it was basically stuck in full flight and took me a good 2000 feet of yanking and pushing the knot back through to fix it for a safe landing. (thank god I opened high in order to perform some maneuvers for A requirements).

[NewGuy2005 53]

Next time I go out, I'll pop one brake and see what happens. I bet that with my big docile canopy, it will be a non-event. Might be a another good argument for big docile canopies.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Next time I go out, I'll pop one brake and see what happens. I bet that with my big docile canopy, it will be a non-event. Might be a another good argument for big docile canopies.

and I bet you learn something.

My pretty big and docile triathlon 220 @ 1.05 was anything but a non event. I know why many people cutaway from these situations.

[mjosparky 4]

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Next time I go out, I'll pop one brake and see what happens. I bet that with my big docile canopy, it will be a non-event. Might be a another good argument for big docile canopies.

At 15 jumps anything that does not go right can be a major problem. How can you make such a statement without even knowing what the potential is? That is the kind of attitude that will allow you to get in way over your head and not even know it.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[NWFlyer 2]

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Next time I go out, I'll pop one brake and see what happens. I bet that with my big docile canopy, it will be a non-event. Might be a another good argument for big docile canopies.

Been there, done that on a Spectre 230 (not on purpose, though), and trust me when I say it was NOT a "non-event."

If you think inducing potential malfunctions on a good canopy "just to see what happens" is a good idea, I'd advise that you have a little chat with your instructors.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[labrys 0]

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Next time I go out, I'll pop one brake and see what happens.

As others have said... you might learn more than you want to learn. What if you have line twists on your "test" jump? It's no fun to have line twists and a popped brake, even on a docile canopy. The twists might lock the canopy in a turn or spin that can't be remedied.

A big, docile canopy can still spin you on your back. Maybe not as fast as a smaller canopy would, but still fast enough to be very, very uncomfortable.

Owned by Remi #?