First Rig - Making the most of a container

[Doyle 0]

TLDR: VC3, Speed 2k 190, Pilot ULPV 190 for first rig. Am I an idiot?

Greetings. I'm currently looking at buying my first rig. After trawling through old threads and many google searches, I have something that resembles a plan. One that seems like it might be a little controversial after looking at old threads. I thought i'd bring it up here before bringing it up at my home DZ to avoid the risk of unknowingly looking like an idiot there.

I'm somewhat breaking the rule of choosing reserve, then main, then container. My reason for this is that I want a FF friendly container that will last me 2 canopy downsizes. I'm planning on just continuing to hire gear until my DZ is happy for me to jump my first rig.

From what I've been able to gather so far, the following should work (please do tell me your thoughts):
- Voodoo Curve 2.0 (VC3)
- Paratec Speed 2000 reserve (190)
- Pilot Ultra LPV 9 cell (190)

Based on cross examining manufacturers charts, this *should* fit, but I understand this isn't the most reliable method and I will contact the manufacturers directly for better information.

My questions are:
Is this plan un-safe?
Does anyone here have experience with this gear combination and/or have any useful information or recommendations?

I'm in a good financial position to do this now, it's not going to stop me from getting experience.

[anomie168 16]

Hi Doyle,

I don't think you'll want to pack a VC3 that tight. I jump a VC3 and have a 160 nano in it and a 150 Zulu main. I don't know how you'd get a 190 reserve in there...

Steve

[countzero 7]

The canopies wouldn't be un-safe unless you'd be wing loading the reserve and main higher than what is appropriate for your current skill level.

As for the rig, check the volume of the container against the volume of the canopies and use the right tool for the job. Cramming canopies that are too big in there because they should fit can be un-safe and puts unneeded stresses on flaps and such.

Also don't be afraid to talk to the rigger at the DZ about gear. You won't "look like an idiot". You're a jumper looking for information and to gain knowledge about gear.

diamonds are a dawgs best friend

[Maddingo 21]

Don't overstuff, rigs have great resale value so you won't loose much. Most rigs hold 2 sizes comfortably... the one that it is designed for and one size smaller. One size bigger is "get ready for shitty deployments". Tested it with borrowed gear where a canopy was one size larger than recommended. Everything from hesitation, hard opening to wild off heading openings... in only 3 jumps with a Pilot.

Avoid lpv and ultra lpv if you are on a heavier side.

[Doyle 0]

So apparently the Speed 2000 has a smaller pack volume than a PD Optimum 160 (sounds like a big call, I know). This thread does seem fairly compelling to me though, admittedly maybe because it's telling me what I want to hear.

http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Skydiving_C1/Gear_and_Rigging_F6/PD_Optimum_or_Paratec_Speed_2000,_which_Pack_Small!_P4254107/

pchapman

... The Speed 190 packs up as small as an Optimum 160, or a Speed 135 like an Optimum 113. ...

Attached is the charts from his post.

As for the main, Aerodynes charts say a 188 U-LPV main will fit "in the green" in an i4, which has comparable room VC3.
vc3 R/M Volume: 375/425
i4 min/max main: 368/393
i4 min/max reserve: 293/346

If that's anything to go by (a bloody good question in itself) then in theory it should fit fine? Common knowledge seems to point to otherwise though, I do value your actual experience with the kit and reccomendations.

[Doyle 0]

Maddingo

Don't overstuff, rigs have great resale value so you won't loose much. Most rigs hold 2 sizes comfortably... the one that it is designed for and one size smaller. One size bigger is "get ready for shitty deployments". Tested it with borrowed gear where a canopy was one size larger than recommended. Everything from hesitation, hard opening to wild off heading openings... in only 3 jumps with a Pilot.

Avoid lpv and ultra lpv if you are on a heavier side.

That's definitely something I want to avoid. Thanks for sharing.

I'm ~80kg. I've had trouble finding much on people's experience with the Ultra LPV. What's the concern with heavier weights? Weight ratings? Performance?

[CrashProne 4]

190/170 rigs are fairly easy to find used, and can be had for a reasonable price. If you buy it right and treat it well, you could sell it later for nearly what you paid, not so for gear bought new.

I’m a bit bigger than you, my first rig was a used Infinity setup with a Pilot 210. Bought it used, put 150 jumps on it and sold it for $100 less than I paid.

Current rig is an Infinity I-46. It held a standard ZP Pilot 188 easily and now a ZP Pilot 150 rides back there just fine as well. You might look at an I-45 for an LPV 188 and you’ll be more than fine down into the 150 range.

[Maddingo 21]

From my first hand info, the ultra lpv material wears out much faster hence it is less durable. As a heavier jumper the load on the wing during deployment is greater.

[anomie168 16]

Hi Doyle,

Packing both the reserve and a main that *might* fit based on close comparisons will make your rigger complain. I'd try and avoid comparing the I4 and VC3 tray sizes because the VC3 has a slightly different shape...and completely different rig. I bought my Curv from RI and I would suggest you email them and ask them direct. As much as the VC4 isn't "as cool", other people have suggested that you can sell them for close to what you pay for them. And the VC3 isn't much cooler, haha. As for the Ultralight canopies, I have two of them (one base) and they aren't the same as ZP. They will wear out faster.

[Doyle 0]

@anomie168
I see. A saying about things that sound too good to be true keeps coming to mind haha. With all these things considered it seems less and less like a good idea. I'll email RI as you say and if they don't recommend it, probably stick with hire or second hand until I'm ready for canopy I plan on using for a long time.

@CrashProne
That's beginning to look like a much better idea. Thanks.

@Maddingo
As above. Also thanks for your comments and input!

[Westerly 61]

Also worth noting is if you over-stuff your rig it's going to be uncomfortable on your back (it wont sit flat), it will look like crap (it will be rounded out and look pregnant) and the container may stretch permanently and you'll forever distort the intended shape of the container.

The best idea is to just get the correct rig for the sizes you intend to fly. If you think you're going to downsize quickly, maybe it's better to just keep using the rentals for a tad longer until you're ready to move into a size that's more long term.