BOD Meeting July 2018

[chuckakers 426]

Ron

Quote

In accordance with the USPA Governance Manual Section 1-6...

Maybe just quote the list of punishment actions that can be taken against GM DZ's. Surely just showing the membership what actions COULD be taken against a GMDZ is not in violation of 1-6.

Have you read the USPA Governance Manual? The answer to your question and most others can be found in it.

https://uspa.org/Portals/0/files/Man_GovMan.pdf

Specifically, your question is answered in 1-6.4.C

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Ron 10]

I don’t see ‘teeth’ there which is why I asked.

Quote

Penalties: Any USPA member who has been found to have committed one or more of the offenses specified in USPA Governance Manual Section 1-6.4.B (above) shall be subject to one or more of the following:
1. Membership suspension or revocation.
2. License suspension or revocation.
3. Rating suspension or revocation.
4. With the above-listed penalties, conditions may be specified upon which membership, licenses and ratings may be restored.
5. Censure

So 1, 4, & 5... I don’t see any ‘teeth’ just you saying you might kick them out, might put conditions on them being able to rejoin, and might write them up.... You and I have clearly differing definitions of ‘teeth’.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[DanG 1]

What kind of teeth are you looking for? Examples, please.

- Dan G

[Ron 10]

DanG

What kind of teeth are you looking for? Examples, please.

He is the one that’s said he added ‘teeth’. I am asking him to define it.

As I suspected, the USPA is not going to do much about BSR violations. Worse case is kick out the GM and not let them back. I don’t see how the USPA could do much more honestly.

But, I don’t call that ‘teeth’ so I asked what he meant.

I can’t help but wonder what would happen if say Lodi wanted to become a GM. I suspect that as long as he signed the pledge and the check cleared he would become a GM.... Even with the history.... Admittedly, this is supposition.

I do find it interesting to read Chuck before being on the BOD talk about the GM program versus today. Since he claims the difference is ‘teeth’, I think it perfectly fair to ask what ‘teeth’ means to him.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Hooknswoop 19]

To summarize;

Chuck went from believing the “The GM program should be scrapped where it stands.”, to the Chair of the GM Program.

He says it has teeth now, but is sworn to secrecy and cannot tell the membership what those teeth are.

USPA gave $25,000 to the skydiving museum and wind tunnel. The museum’s website says a 2018 opening. That is not accurate and the museum and USPA can’t (or won’t) tell us when the museum and wind tunnel are actually scheduled to open.

USPA is supposed to be training the US parachute team. They do not supply any funds to the team (that money seems to have gone towards a project with no schedule), and cannot describe what training they provide. Selecting the team manager is not providing training.

What did I leave out?

Derek V

[baronn 111]

It really is Amazing how the (lack) of any form of logic has disappeared. Next thing ya know, dirt diving is count in a competition jump.

[grimmie 186]

chuckakers

***...is not in accordance to the USPA's own mission statement.

The USPA constitution contains the following references:

The purposes for which USPA is formed are as follows: To encourage unity among all persons interested in skydiving...to promote and encourage the study and knowledge of skydiving among the membership and the public at large....to compile information regarding the science of skydiving and to edit, publish, and disseminate the same...

Chuck, as you know, I'm a pretty pro USPA guy.

However. This is an abuse of our dues, IMHO.

The museum isn't anywhere close to being built. So we are going to lose interest on a ton of money. What happens if it is never built? Do we get a refund with interest?

We have far more pressing needs to keep DZs open across the nation. Our teams beg for funding.

I very strongly disagree with the board's decision.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

Your USPA BOD did indeed vote to donate $25,000 per year, for the next five years, to the International Skydiving Museum & Hall of Fame. I would suggest that all who are not familiar with their mission and the skydivers involved go to skydivingmuseum.org/ and educate yourself.

The USPA voted to give the museum $25,000 per year for 5 years for a total of $125,000 to a project with no scheduled opening date? Tell me that isn’t true. If it is true, I have a project that could use $125,000.

Derek V

[baronn 111]

I counted 18 Trustee or board members of the NSHF museum. Including former Pres George Bush Sr. And they can't get anything done? Nice list of who's who but, really? And now the BOD is throwing 125K at this boondoggle? Just incredible.....

[grimmie 186]

Hooknswoop

Quote

Your USPA BOD did indeed vote to donate $25,000 per year, for the next five years, to the International Skydiving Museum & Hall of Fame. I would suggest that all who are not familiar with their mission and the skydivers involved go to skydivingmuseum.org/ and educate yourself.

The USPA voted to give the museum $25,000 per year for 5 years for a total of $125,000 to a project with no scheduled opening date? Tell me that isn’t true. If it is true, I have a project that could use $125,000.

Derek V

It's not true.

They actually are giving $25,000 of our dues to the museum for SIX years.

The total needed to construct it is estimated at $14,000,000.

The BOD was lobbied hard by the museum folks.

I'm all for an International Skydiving Museum and Hall of Fame, however I think it is not the USPA's BOD best decision to giveaway our money like this. Especially to a project that may never get built.

[skypilotA1 68]

I am curious...did you ever contact your Regional Director, Joshua Hall, or any of the National Directors? I am curious about their response.

Paul G.

[JerryBaumchen 1,426]

Hi Rich,

Quote

Especially to a project that may never get built.

I am completely convinced that it will never get built. I am not in the 'it may not' camp.

Jerry Baumchen

[grimmie 186]

I spoke with Shawn Hill in person about it at the Lost Prairie boogie and let my thoughts be known.

[Westerly 61]

I think there are far more important things to be concerned than some museum which costs $20k per year, or whatever it is. As has been said, that's like a dollar a year from your membership fund which you will pay regardless if the museum is funded or not. How much do you pay in taxes per year? $20k? $40k? I can think of a metric shit load of stupid ways the government wastes my money, and it adds up to a hell of a lot more than $1 per year.

Anyway, as has been said before, at least we have a USPA. Even with the USPA, basically every DZ still has people that do unsafe stuff, and there are no shortages of entire DZs that are unsafe. Imagine how things would be if it was completely unregulated entirely.

[baronn 111]

14 fucking million? Just what do these plans look like? As this onion continues to get peeled, it's resembling yer typical government bridge to nowhere. And it stinks. We need to find out who is supporting this, shit can them and put this idea where it belongs. 6 feet under.

[DougH 270]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Rich,

Quote

Especially to a project that may never get built.

I am completely convinced that it will never get built. I am not in the 'it may not' camp.

Jerry Baumchen

You could get a good idea of their financial standing by looking at their 990, which is available for public review since they are a 501(c)(3).

https://www.guidestar.org/profile/23-7181972

You have register, but guidestar is a reputable entity.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[3331 137]

Once again the USPA BOD didn't tell the Members what their intentions were. From the beginning of the Museum project all agreed no financial burden would be on the USPA Members. The Museum would stand alone financially from donations and charging admission. Building cost started at $5,000,000 on FREE land next to USPA HQ. Now it $14,000,000 on land that’s not FREE. Giving our dues money to the now failing National Skydiving Museum should be voted by the Members, not by the BOD who are supposed to represent the Members.

I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving.

[skyfox2007 22]

Amen. But the USPA reps who have chimed in thus far don't believe in referendums. And it's on us to spend the money and time to attend these meetings in far away places in spite of the year in which we now live.

It's time to move into the 21st century. State governments routinely put specific items to referendums...a change to the by-laws that mandates that matters that affect licensing or an investment of money on any project over a specified amount go to the membership for a popular vote would go a long way in establishing trust. And you think with the $25K/year that the USPA just spent on a museum that it would have sufficient capital to invest in the infrastructure to stream BOD meetings live so that membership can listen in real-time.

Just my two cents on that...

-JD-

[Westerly 61]

skyfox2007

And you think with the $25K/year that the USPA just spent on a museum that it would have sufficient capital to invest in the infrastructure to stream BOD meetings live so that membership can listen in real-time.


-JD-

It doesent take any money to do that. You just need any device with a camera and mic (laptop, desktop, phone, iPad, whatever), an internet connection and one of 50+ free software suits that enables teleconferencing.

[peek 21]

Westerly

You just need any device with a camera and mic (laptop, desktop, phone, iPad, whatever), an internet connection and one of 50+ free software suits that enables teleconferencing.

I wish I had a dollar for every time someone says how easy it is to do video of BOD meetings.

Go to the web site of your local government and find video of a meeting, then go to where the meeting is held and video is done (don't forget the audio, which is more important), and look at what it takes, then tell us how easy it is.

Or contact a company that does things like this, describe USPA BOD meetings (don't forget the committee meetings) and ask them what it would take to do it right.

Or, contact Douglas Spotted Eagle, who used to be the moderator of the dz.com video and photograhy forum, and ask him about his experience in doing video of a BOD meeting.

For the record, I would welcome recording or live video/audio of BOD meetings.

[grimmie 186]

peek

***You just need any device with a camera and mic (laptop, desktop, phone, iPad, whatever), an internet connection and one of 50+ free software suits that enables teleconferencing.

I wish I had a dollar for every time someone says how easy it is to do video of BOD meetings.

Go to the web site of your local government and find video of a meeting, then go to where the meeting is held and video is done (don't forget the audio, which is more important), and look at what it takes, then tell us how easy it is.

Or contact a company that does things like this, describe USPA BOD meetings (don't forget the committee meetings) and ask them what it would take to do it right.

Or, contact Douglas Spotted Eagle, who used to be the moderator of the dz.com video and photograhy forum, and ask him about his experience in doing video of a BOD meeting.

For the record, I would welcome recording or live video/audio of BOD meetings.

I'm sure it could be done for less than $150,000

[peek 21]

grimmie

I'm sure it could be done for less than $150,000

I'm pretty sure it could too. I feel like I should explain that my comment on the difficulty of doing video of a meeting is based on my idea of "good" video and audio.

There is a huge difference between 2 people on their laptop computers communicating in their quiet offices, and 20-30 people trying to communicate in a large room with echo, and without a PA system. But that is what we usually have.

[grimmie 186]

Out of 40,000 members, and including DSE, someone has to have a better widget now.

The BOD should really look into it. Again.

[skyfox2007 22]

Peek,
It may not be easy to set up initially, but once established will more than justify the time and money spent on it. Many US government entities and colleges routinely (daily) use video and audio conferencing. I've witnessed both myself. There has to be someone on the BOD with the right "connections" to make that happen and you have the modest amount of money to finance it. If not, the government does post lists on the contractors it uses for specific support functions and some research might yield some reasonably priced sound and audio techs.

If live streaming proves too daunting or risky, then recording the BOD meetings and posting them on the USPA website for listening by members after-the-fact is another, less expensive option worth considering - provided the regional BOD members are open to feedback from their constituents on the substance of the meetings. The folks at Skydive Chicago - who operate Skydive Radio - might prove helpful. Someone on the BOD surely has a connection out there.

-JD-

[billvon 3,063]

>It may not be easy to set up initially, but once established will more than justify
>the time and money spent on it.

Go for it! I am certain the BOD would welcome your assistance.