North and South Korea

[jclalor 12]

DJL

Quote

Hey nolhtairt, what would you think if Trump continued to deny that NK has continued it's nuke program?

No response. Let's draw the line before the fact this time. Sure, he may actually come back with a strong move but on that off chance that he tries to downplay that NK is continuing with their program. What would you think about a US politician doing that?

Trump never really wanted that Oslo piece of crap anyways.

[billvon 2,991]

Let's check in to see how that's going:

================
Trump says "it's possible" North Korea nuclear agreement could collapse

Jul 2 2018
CBS News

President Donald Trump told Fox News Sunday he trusted Kim Jong Un would dismantle his nuclear program ("I made a deal with him"), but admitted the deal they agreed to in Singapore last month could fall apart.
=================
North Korea Reportedly Expanding Ballistic Missile Production Facility
July 2, 20186:59 AM ET
SCOTT NEUMAN NPR

North Korea is reportedly expanding a facility to build solid-fuel ballistic missiles — a further sign that despite last month's summit between President Trump and Kim Jong Un, Pyongyang is pressing ahead with its nuclear programs.

. . .

"New building didn't appear to begin in earnest until April this year, around the time Mr. Kim shook hands with South Korean President Moon Jae-in in a landmark summit meeting at the inter-Korean border, according to a series of satellite images. The bulk of construction took place in May and June," according to the Journal.
=================

So Kim Jong Un is now more powerful, having gotten the worldwide recognition from the US that a presidential visit confers - and they are speeding up their nuclear program.

Are you sick of all the winning yet?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

I think Kim played it very well. He knows that Trump doesn't like to admit he was wrong.

So he gives him all the promises, let's him take all the glory and gets all this extra time to accelerate his nuclear program.

Any opposition for the US at this point would indicate Trump was wrong. trump would rather turn his back and pretend nothing is happening. Kim knows that as long as he doesn't fire off any rockets, the US will likely leave him alone. He also knows that this has likely greatly eroded the relationship between the US and SK.

As it stands now, it looks like NK played the US for a fool. Let's see what Trump has up his sleeve.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

SkyDekker

As it stands now, it looks like DPRK played the US for a fool. Let's see what Trump has up his sleeve.

Anyone who has paid any attention to KJU & the DPRK and to Trump knew perfectly well that Trump was going to get played.

It has become very obvious over the past year and a half that Trump has nothing 'up his sleeve'.
There have been suggestions that Trump started the current trade war in order to depress the stock market, so that his billionaire buddies can make a killing.
I highly doubt he thought it through that far. He simply doesn't operate that way.

He has no long range plans. No fallback positions. No ulterior motives.

He overestimates his own power and abilities, does whatever occurs to him at any given time and blames others when (not if, when) it goes to shit.

He seemed to think that giving KJU the prestige of a sit down with the President of the US was a good idea. There is a reason that no previous administration has done this.
He seemed to think that KJU would keep his end of any bargain that they made. KJU (and his father and grandfather before) has never done that.

So Trump gave some concessions, said some really nice things about a really nasty guy, and got screwed.

I highly doubt he will admit any error.
I highly doubt he has any fallback position.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[billvon 2,991]

wolfriverjoe

So Trump gave some concessions, said some really nice things about a really nasty guy, and got screwed.

I highly doubt he will admit any error.

"Admit error?" Heck, he's congratulating himself on saving the US from nuclear war! Today - "If not for me, we would now be at War with North Korea!"

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

billvon

***
So Trump gave some concessions, said some really nice things about a really nasty guy, and got screwed.

I highly doubt he will admit any error.

"Admit error?" Heck, he's congratulating himself on saving the US from nuclear war! Today - "If not for me, we would now be at War with North Korea!"

And the really sad part about it is that his supporters will believe him.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[johnhking1 96]

No telling what will happen as a result of the meeting but as they say, "keep your friends close and your enemies closer".

[DJL 235]

johnhking1

No telling what will happen as a result of the meeting but as they say, "keep your friends close and your enemies closer".

Instead of Trump understanding that it's the federal agencies he's working so hard to undermine who keep close ties on our enemies he's taking those words literally.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

johnhking1

No telling what will happen as a result of the meeting but as they say, "keep your friends close and your enemies closer".

Very true. But that saying has nothing to do with "give your enemies a huge boost in prestige and standing while ignoring your long time allies".

Trump is a fool, and has no understanding of international relations or diplomacy. Trump also had decimated the long time knowledge in the State Department. Most of the people who are good at this are gone.

KJU knows it and played him quite adeptly.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[billvon 2,991]

>Well done, Trump. Give that man the Nobel Peace Prize.

Well, perhaps if there was a Nobel war prize . . . .

==================
Donald Trump actually considered invading Venezuela last year

Luiz Romero
Quartz
7/4/2018

When Venezuela descended into political and economic chaos last August, Donald Trump’s public reaction was to float a “military option,” which could have meant an invasion and the removal of the South American country’s president Nicolás Maduro from power.

While the remark, which was made to reporters on August 11, was otherwise ignored as empty, improvised bluster—usual Trump talk—a report released today (July 5) by AP revealed that he was deadly serious. This was because he repeatedly brought up the so-called military option in private as well as in public.

Trump first floated the idea on August 10, at a meeting in the Oval Office with high-level aides, including secretary of state Rex Tillerson and national security adviser H. R. McMaster. When discussing sanctions on Venezuela, he asked why the US couldn’t just invade the country. Trump even provided some historical references, the AP says, like the US-led invasion of Grenada in 1983, under Ronald Reagan, and of Panama in 1989, under George H. W. Bush.

Officials at the meeting tried to explain to the former reality TV host why invasion was not an option—it could backfire and it could reduce US popularity in the region, which was already lower than usual—but Trump insisted.

When he made the remarks public the next day, he was criticized by the Mercosur bloc and US partner Colombia, as well as startled Venezuelan officials. Defense minister Vladimir López called it an act of “extremism” and “madness.”

Later that month, Trump brought the plan up again in a meeting with Colombian president Juan Manuel Santos. And he even floated the option again in September during an encounter with Santos and three other Latin American presidents—countering the explicit advice from aides not to mention the idea. The Latin American leaders all reportedly refused the suggestion.

Besides the obvious legal and ethical questions, an invasion of Venezuela would likely be exploited by some Latin American leaders and could further harm the US reputation in the region. Maduro is already doing that. The Venezuelan president referenced Trump’s remarks in a military ceremony on Wednesday (July 4), and asked Venezuela’s armed forces to be on guard.
========================

[Phil1111 1,149]

billvon

>Well done, Trump. Give that man the Nobel Peace Prize.

Well, perhaps if there was a Nobel war prize . . . .

==================
Donald Trump actually considered invading Venezuela last year

Luiz Romero
Quartz
7/4/2018

When Venezuela descended into political and economic chaos last August, Donald Trump’s public reaction was to float a “military option,” which could have meant an invasion and the removal of the South American country’s president Nicolás Maduro from power.

While the remark, which was made to reporters on August 11, was otherwise ignored as empty, improvised bluster—usual Trump talk—a report released today (July 5) by AP revealed that he was deadly serious. This was because he repeatedly brought up the so-called military option in private as well as in public.

Trump first floated the idea on August 10, at a meeting in the Oval Office with high-level aides, including secretary of state Rex Tillerson and national security adviser H. R. McMaster. When discussing sanctions on Venezuela, he asked why the US couldn’t just invade the country. Trump even provided some historical references, the AP says, like the US-led invasion of Grenada in 1983, under Ronald Reagan, and of Panama in 1989, under George H. W. Bush.

Officials at the meeting tried to explain to the former reality TV host why invasion was not an option—it could backfire and it could reduce US popularity in the region, which was already lower than usual—but Trump insisted.

When he made the remarks public the next day, he was criticized by the Mercosur bloc and US partner Colombia, as well as startled Venezuelan officials. Defense minister Vladimir López called it an act of “extremism” and “madness.”

Later that month, Trump brought the plan up again in a meeting with Colombian president Juan Manuel Santos. And he even floated the option again in September during an encounter with Santos and three other Latin American presidents—countering the explicit advice from aides not to mention the idea. The Latin American leaders all reportedly refused the suggestion.

Besides the obvious legal and ethical questions, an invasion of Venezuela would likely be exploited by some Latin American leaders and could further harm the US reputation in the region. Maduro is already doing that. The Venezuelan president referenced Trump’s remarks in a military ceremony on Wednesday (July 4), and asked Venezuela’s armed forces to be on guard.
========================

Some Americans just don't get it. When trump says such stupid stuff it helps Maduro. The country is a disaster and nothing will rally his base of support like a US bully, bogeyman. Talking such nonsense does nothing but make the US look stupid and bad in all of South America.

The government has blamed its problems on the US for decades. Now it has statements from a US president to show it has malicious intent.

[wmw999 2,447]

He gets something of a pass on floating stupid ideas in private. Repeating them the next day after they’ve been shot down — that’s worthy of serious ridicule

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jclalor 12]

wmw999

He gets something of a pass on floating stupid ideas in private. Repeating them the next day after they’ve been shot down — that’s worthy of serious ridicule

Wendy P.

There’s stupid ideas floated in private and then there’s talk of engaging militarily with a foreign country in private. Both are not equal.

[Phil1111 1,149]

jclalor

***He gets something of a pass on floating stupid ideas in private. Repeating them the next day after they’ve been shot down — that’s worthy of serious ridicule

Wendy P.

There’s stupid ideas floated in private and then there’s talk of engaging militarily with a foreign country in private. Both are not equal.

Beyond that, why send a single US soldier to a place where there are NO US national interests. Actually, the disaster of Venezuelan declining oil exports. Helps the US.

[ryoder 1,590]

Sounds like something from The Onion:

Mike Pompeo to give Kim Jong-un 'Rocket Man CD' during nuclear talks
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/06/mike-pompeo-north-korea-kim-jong-un-rocket-man-cd-nuclear-elton-john

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[jakee 1,490]

Because after hearing the magic of Elton he’ll realise that Trump was paying him the most wonderful of compliments all along?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[DJL 235]

Phil1111

******He gets something of a pass on floating stupid ideas in private. Repeating them the next day after they’ve been shot down — that’s worthy of serious ridicule

Wendy P.

There’s stupid ideas floated in private and then there’s talk of engaging militarily with a foreign country in private. Both are not equal.

Beyond that, why send a single US soldier to a place where there are NO US national interests. Actually, the disaster of Venezuelan declining oil exports. Helps the US.

Besides, the opponents to Maduro absolutely do not want the US involved in or supporting their efforts. They really don't give a shit about the US and being anti-Maduro does not make them Pro-US.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[ryoder 1,590]

His rosy outlook was almost immediately rejected by North Korea’s foreign ministry, which called the U.S. attitude to the talks “regrettable” and accused the United States of making unilateral demands for denuclearization. Pompeo just hours earlier said the two sides engaged in “good-faith negotiations.”

Take link at top of page: https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awashingtonpost.com+Secretary+of+State+Pompeo+leaves+North+Korea+with+promise+of+more+talks+but+no+tangible+breakthrough

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[billvon 2,991]

Quote

Say what you want about Trump, but I dare say that this would not have happened if Hillary had won.

I agree.
===========================================
North Korea says talks with Pompeo were ‘regrettable’

PYONGYANG, North Korea (AP) - High-level talks between the United States and North Korea appeared to hit a snag on Saturday as Pyongyang said a visit by U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo had been “regrettable” and accused Washington of making “gangster-like” demands to pressure the country into abandoning its nuclear weapons.. .

While Pompeo offered a relatively positive assessment of his meetings, North Korea’s Foreign Ministry said in a statement that the U.S. betrayed the spirit of last month’s summit between President Donald Trump and Kim by making “unilateral and gangster-like” demands on “CVID,” or the complete, verifiable and irreversible denuclearization of North Korea.

It said the outcome of the follow-up talks was “very concerning” because it has led to a “dangerous phase that might rattle our willingness for denuclearization that had been firm.”
============================================
North Korea Pursues Rapid Expansion of Advanced Solid Fuelled Ballistic Missile Arsenal

Military Watch Magazine

July 03rd - 2018

Having declared an end to ballistic missile and nuclear testing in April, after successfully developing a number of new weapons systems and miniaturised nuclear warheads necessary to provide the country with substantial deterrent capabilities, North Korea appears to have redoubled its efforts to produce the weapons already tested in sufficient numbers for its defence needs. From 2015 to 2017 North Korea’s armed forces carried out dozens of weapons tests, which have introduced not only the country’s first intercontinental range ballistic missiles, the Hwasong-14 and Hwasong-15, and compact hydrogen warheads - but also modernised short and intermediate ranged platforms capable of striking at new ranges and with greater efficiency. . .

The military is now increasingly turning its attentions towards producing the weapons and their launchers in larger numbers to strengthen the country’s deterrent force. This has very likely been accompanied by production of more nuclear warheads alongside conventional ones in order to arm these missiles.
================================================

[ryoder 1,590]

Headline: What now? Pompeo exits North Korea emptyhanded, leaving US with three options -- all of them bad

Meh, fake news.
Let's see what Fox News says...oh wait...that was Fox News!

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/07/07/what-now-pompeo-exits-north-korea-emptyhanded-leaving-us-with-three-options-all-them-bad.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[tkhayes 348]

nolhtairt

Quite frankly, I'm amazed at the rapid change in North Korea's tone from defiance to conciliatory. Say what you want about Trump, but I dare say that this would not have happened if Hillary had won.

After 60+ years of politicians-turned-presidents who never could solve the North Korean equation or just punted it down the road, here comes a businessman-turned-president who takes a hard line, and gets the UN to work on sanctions. Kim Jong Un saw the writing on the wall. He was going to run out of hard currency within months.

Of course, there's still work to do to finish the process and get a peace treaty signed to replace the armistice, but things appear to be moving in the right direction.

Well done, Trump. Give that man the Nobel Peace Prize.

It would appear that 'nothing has happened' after all.

And arguably, Hillary Clinton would have accomplished nothing either. However, I doubt Hillary would have stood up and made claims about being so amazing for solving the problem....

I will go back to my normal life now. wake me up when something 'actual' happens.

[gowlerk 2,193]

Quote

It would appear that 'nothing has happened' after all.

I would disagree. NK has taken a giant step toward being accepted as a nuclear power. The pressure on other countries to enforce sanctions has been significantly lessened. If normalizing relations with them on their terms is a goal then yes, Trump's gambit is successful. It is possible that is the best way of moving forward. But clearly there is a huge risk in it.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 2,991]

gowlerk

I would disagree. NK has taken a giant step toward being accepted as a nuclear power. The pressure on other countries to enforce sanctions has been significantly lessened.

I would also add that the lesson has now been reinforced - if you want the US to take you seriously, you have to build nuclear weapons.

[DJL 235]

DJL

Quote

Hey nolhtairt, what would you think if Trump continued to deny that NK has continued it's nuke program?

No response. Let's draw the line before the fact this time. Sure, he may actually come back with a strong move but on that off chance that he tries to downplay that NK is continuing with their program. What would you think about a US politician doing that?

Trump has now voiced his assurance several times that NK will continue to denuclearize despite NK's claim that they will not. He in effect is becoming NK's minister of disinformation.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[tkhayes 348]

^^^^THAT

The narcissistic sociopath that can do no wrong, has never done anything wrong and would deny it even it if NK launched a nuclear warhead ICBM. SO yes, he becomes a willing ally of NK and its propaganda via his own ego.