North and South Korea

[billvon 2,991]

Quote

I actually give credit to Trump for utilizing the "break up with them first" tactic. This bullshit wasn't going to go anywhere.

Agreed. But you may have given him credit too soon. He was asked about the meeting today:

=========
Trump: We’ll see what happens. It could even be the 12th. We’re talking to them now. They very much want to do it. We’d like to do it. We’re going to see what happens.

Reporter: Is North Korea just playing games?

Trump: Everybody plays games.
==========

This is appropriate, I think:

[DJL 235]

billvon

Quote

I actually give credit to Trump for utilizing the "break up with them first" tactic. This bullshit wasn't going to go anywhere.

Agreed. But you may have given him credit too soon. He was asked about the meeting today:

=========
Trump: We’ll see what happens. It could even be the 12th. We’re talking to them now. They very much want to do it. We’d like to do it. We’re going to see what happens.

Reporter: Is North Korea just playing games?

Trump: Everybody plays games.
==========

This is appropriate, I think:

I wish the reporter had asked him if he's good at playing games.

"Oh, yes, I'm very good. Nobody plays games like me..."

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[christelsabine 1]

AlanS

I honestly believe that China is the true player in this. We need to enact the tariffs against China, and state simply we will not trade with China as long as they support North Korea having nuclear weapons.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/north-korea-summit-crumbled-after-china-lined-against-it-n877341

China was starting to impose more sanctions in N. Korea which force them to the table, but after the 2nd meeting between Xi and Kim it seems those sanctions started to crumble.

No trade with China??? What do you think will Ivanka Trump have to say on that? She will be forced to look for other *cheap countries* to produce her high class articles. And she's not the only one ...

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Bob_Church 7]

christelsabine

***I honestly believe that China is the true player in this. We need to enact the tariffs against China, and state simply we will not trade with China as long as they support North Korea having nuclear weapons.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/north-korea-summit-crumbled-after-china-lined-against-it-n877341

China was starting to impose more sanctions in N. Korea which force them to the table, but after the 2nd meeting between Xi and Kim it seems those sanctions started to crumble.

No trade with China??? What do you think will Ivanka Trump have to say on that? She will be forced to look for other *cheap countries* to produce her high class articles. And she's not the only one ...


Some day, like West Virginia and pretty much everywhere else that big corporations have screwed over, which is basically every where else at some point in time, the people of China and India will have had enough and tell them they won't be slaves any longer.
Which is just another part of the cycle. The corporations have Darfur right where they want them. They'll ride in on their white horses, heroes saving the day, and paying less than a dollar for that same amount of time in a sweatshop.

[Bob_Church 7]

It always amazes me to see clips out of North Korea whether they're blowing up tunnels or using nukes to blow up a mountain, and to see how beautiful the country is.

[billvon 2,991]

Quote

Some day, like West Virginia and pretty much everywhere else that big corporations have screwed over, which is basically every where else at some point in time, the people of China and India will have had enough and tell them they won't be slaves any longer.

Well, that's capitalism for you. (And they will be perfectly willing to be "slaves" for a 25% raise - just as people here are.)

[Bob_Church 7]

Here's something that still hasn't changed about North Korea. Scroll down to the third photo. It's of the guard, in case something hasn't loaded and that number is wrong. Someone smuggle in a sandwich for that poor guy.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/north-korea-imposed-strict-rules-for-journalists-at-nuclear-demolition-show/

I bet Kim could roast and eat six of this guy for lunch.

[tkhayes 348]

Quote

Some day, like West Virginia and pretty much everywhere else that big corporations have screwed over, which is basically every where else at some point in time, the people of China and India will have had enough and tell them they won't be slaves any longer.
Which is just another part of the cycle. The corporations have Darfur right where they want them. They'll ride in on their white horses, heroes saving the day, and paying less than a dollar for that same amount of time in a sweatshop.

Yes that is true, but when workers in all these poorer countries do begin to demand better wages and the lifestyles that we all enjoy, then THEY will become the market - not us.

I always said that America's time as the world economic leader is coming to an end. 330M people compared to 2.5B for a market. We have given them everything that they need to replicate everything that we do, now we are complaining that we gave it all away. It was only a matter of time anyway. The USA will eventually become 'just another market' in a global market. Hope you got your while it was good.

[jcd11235 0]

"South Korean President Moon Jae-in met North Korean leader Kim Jong Un on Saturday to discuss Kim’s possible upcoming summit with U.S. President Donald Trump, the South said, the second inter-Korean summit in as many months.

"Moon and Kim met just north of the heavily militarised border in the afternoon to exchange views to pave way for a summit between North Korea and the United States, South Korea’s presidential office said.

"Moon will announce the outcome of his two-hour meeting with Kim on Sunday morning, officials aid." Reuters

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Bob_Church 7]

tkhayes

Quote

Some day, like West Virginia and pretty much everywhere else that big corporations have screwed over, which is basically every where else at some point in time, the people of China and India will have had enough and tell them they won't be slaves any longer.
Which is just another part of the cycle. The corporations have Darfur right where they want them. They'll ride in on their white horses, heroes saving the day, and paying less than a dollar for that same amount of time in a sweatshop.

Yes that is true, but when workers in all these poorer countries do begin to demand better wages and the lifestyles that we all enjoy, then THEY will become the market - not us.

I always said that America's time as the world economic leader is coming to an end. 330M people compared to 2.5B for a market. We have given them everything that they need to replicate everything that we do, now we are complaining that we gave it all away. It was only a matter of time anyway. The USA will eventually become 'just another market' in a global market. Hope you got your while it was good.

They have to have someone to exploit when Darfur becomes livable. The US will be so desperate for jobs by then that we'll welcome the sweatshops while intellectuals in Darfur write about how we're being helped.

[tkhayes 348]

It disturbs me that this is done without the USA present

Generally speaking in a diplomatic sense, there are 1 million things to do ahead of meetings like this. Frameworks, what will be discussed, scope, expectations, but of course we are in a time when normal diplomatic channels don’t matter. Yet to be determined whether that is an effective method or not

What is the president’s time worth? Relative to the gross domestic product, the GDP is $19 trillion per year, which makes the presidents time worth $216 million per second.

I could see where that’s an oddball way of measuring it. But it does give some scope to the impact to our economy if things are done poorly

The very fact that we are cut out of preparatory meetings indicates our weakness in the process while we continuously brag about our successes

[jcd11235 0]

tkhayes

It disturbs me that this is done without the USA present

I think, if the Korean peninsula is to be reunified, NK & SK need to be the primary players, if not the only players, at the table.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[tkhayes 348]

I was not aware the reunification was on the table. The South Koreans are NOT interested in reunifying (IMO) with the North, this was discussed in another thread. They do not trust them, they do not want the financial burden of taking them on as what would amount to a welfare state and a serious burden on their economy.

Not to mention the political differences... staunchly communist dictatorship reunifying with a democracy... how exactly does that work? I will tell you how - it doesn't. At least not yet, and maybe not for a decade after disarmament and dismantling of the weaponry that is currently pointing at the south just across the DMZ.

As far as I know, or any I can find, there is no goal of reunification here, and certainly that is NOT what is on the table in regards to the June summit in Singapore with the USA.

Those talks are about peace and disarmament in exchange for more favorable economic conditions (and security/longevity for KJU) for the North, and I expect that is pretty much what the north and south are also talking about, even today.

[jcd11235 0]

tkhayes

I was not aware the reunification was on the table.

It may not be. Perhaps I overstated the goal. My point remains that US involvement in the peace talks have not been particularly helpful thus far, and there's no reason to expect that to change now, after so many decades.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Bob_Church 7]

These two photos were taken within the last week. I think that in many ways they sum up North Korea very well.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

tkhayes

It disturbs me that this is done without the USA present...

...The very fact that we are cut out of preparatory meetings indicates our weakness in the process while we continuously brag about our successes

It should disturb anyone who thinks.

The State Department has been eviscerated. Trump wanted to 'drain the swamp.' Well, a large part of what he 'drained' is the experienced and qualified diplomats from State. Top DPRK expert, gone. Top nuke expert, gone.

So you get Bolton shooting his mouth off, Pence echoing it, both of which are scary as all hell to KJU & the DPRK.
I thought it was unlikely KJU would be willing to totally give up the nukes he already has.

After the comments comparing Libya to the DPRK, I think the chances have approached the proverbial 'whelk in a supernova'.

Add on the abandonment of the deal with Iran (and six other countries), a deal that was negotiated over a period of years, and a deal that the Iranians seem to have kept their side of, and we see what happens when a 'successful businessman' tries international relations.

The US has pretty much abdicated it's position as 'world's policeman' and become a joke.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Phil1111 1,149]

wolfriverjoe

*** It disturbs me that this is done without the USA present...

...The very fact that we are cut out of preparatory meetings indicates our weakness in the process while we continuously brag about our successes

It should disturb anyone who thinks.

The State Department has been eviscerated. Trump wanted to 'drain the swamp.' Well, a large part of what he 'drained' is the experienced and qualified diplomats from State. Top DPRK expert, gone. Top nuke expert, gone.

So you get Bolton shooting his mouth off, Pence echoing it, both of which are scary as all hell to KJU & the DPRK.
I thought it was unlikely KJU would be willing to totally give up the nukes he already has.

After the comments comparing Libya to the DPRK, I think the chances have approached the proverbial 'whelk in a supernova'.

Add on the abandonment of the deal with Iran (and six other countries), a deal that was negotiated over a period of years, and a deal that the Iranians seem to have kept their side of, and we see what happens when a 'successful businessman' tries international relations.

The US has pretty much abdicated it's position as 'world's policeman' and become a joke.

In Agreement
VVVVVVVVVV
Trump’s Imploding World Order
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/trumps-imploding-world-order

.” In a commencement speech at the Naval Academy on Friday, Trump touted the success of an agenda that rejects past policies and promotes stand-alone U.S. supremacy in the world. “We are not going to apologize for America—we are going to stand up for America. No more apologies,” Trump said. “They are respecting us again. Yes, America is back.” He told cadets at the Annapolis stadium, “Winning is such a great feeling, isn’t it? Nothing like winning. You got to win.”...

“Trump has little interest in working with allies,”

[gowlerk 2,191]

Quote

The US has pretty much abdicated it's position as 'world's policeman' and become a joke.

The US worked long and hard to get China and Russia to more or less go along with tightening sanctions and ratcheting up the pressure on Kim. And undoing that work is the game he is playing. He is setting Trump up to look like someone who can not be trusted. (easy enough)

If and when a summit comes, Kim will make a demand that the US present a plan for it's own disarmament. He will not follow the agreed upon script and Trump probably knows that. Kim's goal is acceptance as a nuclear power. He won't get that in this round, but he will make progress in getting some nations to go along.

There are nations that are mostly beyond the reach of US pressure and they will begin to do more and more business with the RNK. This is all because America went with a bad businessman instead of a proven skilled Machiavellian woman.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 2,991]

>It disturbs me that this is done without the USA present

Yep. But from South Korea's perspective - would you really want Trump or Bolton there? They could easily destroy any progress made by South Korea towards disarmament.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

billvon

>It disturbs me that this is done without the USA present

Yep. But from South Korea's perspective - would you really want Trump or Bolton there? They could easily destroy any progress made by South Korea towards disarmament.

Bingo.

One of the more disturbing aspects of the whole thing is how horribly the Idiot in Chief has handled it.
And the fact that it seems to be going so much better without him.

The power and influence of the US is going down the drain.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Stumpy 284]

wolfriverjoe

The power and influence of the US is going down the drain.

Gone.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[wmw999 2,446]

Unfortunately, the people in charge of our military now (CIC, etc) are of the opinion that as long as we can wipe them off the face of the earth, intimidation is at least as good as softer influence.

After all, it's worked so well for harsh parents and the Israelis over the years.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

We need to enact the tariffs against China, and state simply we will not trade with China as long as they support North Korea having nuclear weapons.

With China making $500 million contributions to Trump branded developments and expediting Ivanka Trump's trademark applications, you might be barking up the wrong tree.

[yoink 321]

So in the news today is Giuliani saying that Kim Jong Un 'begged on his hands and knees' to resume talks.

Anyone want to be that the talks will be called off again because Giuliani can't keep his mouth shut?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44390112

[billvon 2,991]

>Anyone want to be that the talks will be called off again because Giuliani can't keep his mouth shut?

Which would be followed by -

"I don't think Kim Jong Un begged on his hands and knees. I think a mistake was made. . . . It was a mistake. I swear to God, it was a mistake!"