the 4th of July confession

[Bob_Church 7]

rushmc

***All of you who think the US got involved in WWII for shits and giggles seem to forget about the concept of crimes against humanity. While the Germans and Japanese were not realistically threatening the US directly, they threatened the very idea of humanity. Fighting them was noble whether they were knocking on our door or not.

Well stated.

I recently heard a guy, a guy who was old enough and educated enough to know better say "We fought to stop Hitler but Stalin and Mao killed more people each and we never even bothered about that."
He was that determined to find something about the US to criticize that fit in with a discussion we were having about war and the US military.

[Phil1111 1,149]

Bob_Church

******All of you who think the US got involved in WWII for shits and giggles seem to forget about the concept of crimes against humanity. While the Germans and Japanese were not realistically threatening the US directly, they threatened the very idea of humanity. Fighting them was noble whether they were knocking on our door or not.

Well stated.

I recently heard a guy, a guy who was old enough and educated enough to know better say "We fought to stop Hitler but Stalin and Mao killed more people each and we never even bothered about that."
He was that determined to find something about the US to criticize that fit in with a discussion we were having about war and the US military.

The essence of that line of thought is that Mao and Stalin killed their own people. Setting aside the fact that Ukrainian purges, Ukrainian famine, etc. were directed at separate republics. Generally speaking US wars have never been prosecuted for territorial or imperialist aims.

[Bob_Church 7]

Phil1111

*********All of you who think the US got involved in WWII for shits and giggles seem to forget about the concept of crimes against humanity. While the Germans and Japanese were not realistically threatening the US directly, they threatened the very idea of humanity. Fighting them was noble whether they were knocking on our door or not.

Well stated.

I recently heard a guy, a guy who was old enough and educated enough to know better say "We fought to stop Hitler but Stalin and Mao killed more people each and we never even bothered about that."
He was that determined to find something about the US to criticize that fit in with a discussion we were having about war and the US military.

The essence of that line of thought is that Mao and Stalin killed their own people. Setting aside the fact that Ukrainian purges, Ukrainian famine, etc. were directed at separate republics. Generally speaking US wars have never been prosecuted for territorial or imperialist aims.

But forty plus years of The Cold War to contain them is not bothering?

[billvon 2,996]

Quote

Same with WW 2, although it was a wider war and Japan attacked the Navy at Pearl Harbor. But they never wanted to conquer the US, they just wanted to kick us out of the western Pacific so that they could have a nice empire.

An empire that perhaps included Hawaii, which is indeed part of the US.

Keep in mind that the Japanese attitude going into WWII was that they wanted to win it without involving us. Indeed, Pearl Harbor was an attempt to wipe out the effectiveness of the US in the Pacific theater and intimidate the US into not responding rapidly. That was because we _were_ a force in the Pacific theater, and Japan recognized that.

Had we not had the military (and perhaps even more importantly, the economic power of the US) the Japanese would have certainly been even more aggressive than they were in the Pacific. They wanted that "nice empire."

[kallend 2,027]

DanG

Can you bring yourself to admit that the US has ever done anything good?

Your claim was bogus. You just don't like to admit it. The US didn't enter WW2 for the greater benefit of mankind, it did so because its hand was forced.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[RonD1120 62]

jcd11235

***Other than potentially WWI, no there really hasn't been.

Freedom in the US during WWII was never at risk.

Shhh …
You'll interfere with our Great American Fantasy.

The American fantasy is the greatest most magnificent national fantasy in the history of the world. What do you have to gain by seeking to destroy it?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[wmw999 2,452]

It’s dangerous because it doesn’t talk about real people. People who sometimes have less-than-honorable desires, and even populations with giant blind spots that suit them.

Right now Poland has made it illegal to talk about their involvement in WW2 in certain ways. It suits their national fantasy. Does that make it right?

It’s generally best to be realistic when dealing with real situations, particularly ones involving lots of people. You can’t take all possibilities into account, but you should be willing to consider unflattering ones.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wmw999 2,452]

Only being willing to see the unflattering is no worse than only being willing to see the flattering. It is annoying sometimes, though.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

RonD1120

******Other than potentially WWI, no there really hasn't been.

Freedom in the US during WWII was never at risk.

Shhh …
You'll interfere with our Great American Fantasy.

The American fantasy is the greatest most magnificent national fantasy in the history of the world. What do you have to gain by seeking to destroy it?

Well, because reality is a bit different.

And the real world is the one I live in.
Living in a fantasy world, ignoring reality when it doesn't suit is rather foolish. And fairly dangerous.

I don't know for sure about you, but you seem to ignore reality on a pretty regular basis.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[gowlerk 2,198]

Quote

The American fantasy is the greatest most magnificent national fantasy in the history of the world. What do you have to gain by seeking to destroy it?

Nice one Ron. At least you still have a sense of humour. But I will point out that you seem fine with watching the dotard do his best to destroy huge parts of the American National Fantasy.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[DJL 235]

DanG

All of you who think the US got involved in WWII for shits and giggles seem to forget about the concept of crimes against humanity. While the Germans and Japanese were not realistically threatening the US directly, they threatened the very idea of humanity. Fighting them was noble whether they were knocking on our door or not.

Edit: I'm also not trying to say that holding back was the wrong move. Germany was exhausting itself against Russia and it's very likely that US involvement earlier would've caused them to stop their offense leaving us with an entrenched, well supplied and healthy enemy with Rommel in his prime atop a very large column of tanks.

The narrative on us rushing to the defense of those victims changes quite a bit depending on the target audience. Sometimes people will say that we fought WWII to end the holocaust but that's rubbish, we did very little in that regard during the course of the war. It's well documented that we knew the locations of the camps, knew what was happening there and knew that bombing the associated military bases or facilities could be done without killing the prisoners. The next picture we like to paint is that the soldiers "found" the bases on their advance through Germany but that's also rubbish. There's no way that a theater commander wouldn't know the location of any encampment of that size and not know what it was.

So I'm not saying that our mission wasn't in hindside an effort against crimes against humanity but we sure did bide our time getting there. Two thirds of the Jewish population had already been killed. Of that remaining 1/3 many were in hiding, had fled, were temporarily safe because they served as window dressing to show the world that they were being treated well, but if the war had been delayed much longer there wouldn't have been many left to rescue.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[RonD1120 62]

gowlerk

Quote

The American fantasy is the greatest most magnificent national fantasy in the history of the world. What do you have to gain by seeking to destroy it?

Nice one Ron. At least you still have a sense of humour. But I will point out that you seem fine with watching the dotard do his best to destroy huge parts of the American National Fantasy.

I don't see that but, I am not a progressive liberal.

I am remaining cautiously optimistic regarding the MAGA ideology. All of us in our collective nation and particularly my tribe expected massive resistance from the progressive left. We are neither surprised nor discouraged by it. We are holding to hope and if you will belief that America will be secure and so strong economically and militarily that 2020 will be a shoo-in for President Trump.

Our goal, at least locally, is to take Pentecostalism from the back street to the main street. As people begin to experience the power of the Holy Spirit in practical ways in their own lives we as a nation will soar to new heights. We will have God's blessings manifest once again to uphold the Constitution of the United States in the manner in which it was originally intended. It would only take 20-25% of the total population to accomplish the change.

We have had two major outpourings of the Holy Spirit in America. The first was in 1903 and the second in 1906-15. It is time for another.

The intellectual elite will still try attack but it will be difficult to overrule prosperity and a personal sense of well being.

Of course, over time the pendulum will swing back the other way. That is simply man's sinful nature.

If MAGA is not successful then I believe we will descend into the final stages of a civil/cultural war. The end times will accelerate and Biblical prophecy will more rapidly be fulfilled.

MAGA does not replace SHTF. Hopefully, it will postpone it a couple of generations.

Look to Jesus and allow Christ and the Holy Spirit to become the rightful guide on your path in eternity.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[gowlerk 2,198]

RonD1120

***

Quote

The American fantasy is the greatest most magnificent national fantasy in the history of the world. What do you have to gain by seeking to destroy it?

Nice one Ron. At least you still have a sense of humour. But I will point out that you seem fine with watching the dotard do his best to destroy huge parts of the American National Fantasy.

I don't see that but, I am not a progressive liberal.

I am remaining cautiously optimistic regarding the MAGA ideology. All of us in our collective nation and particularly my tribe expected massive resistance from the progressive left. We are neither surprised nor discouraged by it. We are holding to hope and if you will belief that America will be secure and so strong economically and militarily that 2020 will be a shoo-in for President Trump.

Our goal, at least locally, is to take Pentecostalism from the back street to the main street. As people begin to experience the power of the Holy Spirit in practical ways in their own lives we as a nation will soar to new heights. We will have God's blessings manifest once again to uphold the Constitution of the United States in the manner in which it was originally intended. It would only take 20-25% of the total population to accomplish the change.

We have had two major outpourings of the Holy Spirit in America. The first was in 1903 and the second in 1906-15. It is time for another.

The intellectual elite will still try attack but it will be difficult to overrule prosperity and a personal sense of well being.

Of course, over time the pendulum will swing back the other way. That is simply man's sinful nature.

If MAGA is not successful then I believe we will descend into the final stages of a civil/cultural war. The end times will accelerate and Biblical prophecy will more rapidly be fulfilled.

MAGA does not replace SHTF. Hopefully, it will postpone it a couple of generations.

Look to Jesus and allow Christ and the Holy Spirit to become the rightful guide on your path in eternity.


Well, that is not a political POV, but a largely religious one. If you really believe all of that I would call it a personal or as you say, tribal fantasy and not in line with what most would regard as the standard American Fantasy. The End Times Fantasy is not reflected in the American Constitution. And for good reason. God in Her wisdom did not want it there. My path to eternity is already assured. I am one with all of the universe and I am at peace.

Edit to add- God and the US Constitution hold that all people are equal. Trump and MAGA hold that some people are vermin. As if somehow God made an error of some kind with them.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[airdvr 210]

kallend

***All of you who think the US got involved in WWII for shits and giggles seem to forget about the concept of crimes against humanity. While the Germans and Japanese were not realistically threatening the US directly, they threatened the very idea of humanity. Fighting them was noble whether they were knocking on our door or not.

That was true from September 1939 until Dec 6, 1941 too. US sat on its collective thumbs until Dec. 1941.

Sorry Perfesser...the US was sending huge amounts of aid prior to December 6. We would have sent more sooner had Britain repaid what we gave her in WWI.

An enemy doesn't have to be on your doorstep to be a threat. There is much to be said for the deterrent effect of a large standing force.

As for the rest of you who live in the US and thumb your noses at the armed forces...you should be ashamed of yourselves. While you might not agree you should at least give props for the individuals who serve. I doubt any of you would make the kind of sacrifices they do.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[wmw999 2,452]

Ron, what do you see happening to the 65-75% of Americans who aren’t in tune with a Pentecostal-inspired takeover of the US government? Will you have to take their guns?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[RMK 3]

There's a good television series exploring this future dystopian America where the religious people are in charge …"The Handmaid's Tale"

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[DJL 235]

Quote

As for the rest of you who live in the US and thumb your noses at the armed forces...you should be ashamed of yourselves. While you might not agree you should at least give props for the individuals who serve. I doubt any of you would make the kind of sacrifices they do.

Nobody is thumbing their noses at the armed forces.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[jclalor 12]

airdvr

******All of you who think the US got involved in WWII for shits and giggles seem to forget about the concept of crimes against humanity. While the Germans and Japanese were not realistically threatening the US directly, they threatened the very idea of humanity. Fighting them was noble whether they were knocking on our door or not.

That was true from September 1939 until Dec 6, 1941 too. US sat on its collective thumbs until Dec. 1941.

Sorry Perfesser...the US was sending huge amounts of aid prior to December 6. We would have sent more sooner had Britain repaid what we gave her in WWI.

An enemy doesn't have to be on your doorstep to be a threat. There is much to be said for the deterrent effect of a large standing force.

As for the rest of you who live in the US and thumb your noses at the armed forces...you should be ashamed of yourselves. While you might not agree you should at least give props for the individuals who serve. I doubt any of you would make the kind of sacrifices they do.

Discussing history is not thumbing your nose at the military. Thumbing your nose at the military would be something like being a collegiate athlete but claiming you’re not physically fit fo fight for our country.

[RonD1120 62]

gowlerk

******

Quote

The American fantasy is the greatest most magnificent national fantasy in the history of the world. What do you have to gain by seeking to destroy it?

Nice one Ron. At least you still have a sense of humour. But I will point out that you seem fine with watching the dotard do his best to destroy huge parts of the American National Fantasy.

I don't see that but, I am not a progressive liberal.

I am remaining cautiously optimistic regarding the MAGA ideology. All of us in our collective nation and particularly my tribe expected massive resistance from the progressive left. We are neither surprised nor discouraged by it. We are holding to hope and if you will belief that America will be secure and so strong economically and militarily that 2020 will be a shoo-in for President Trump.

Our goal, at least locally, is to take Pentecostalism from the back street to the main street. As people begin to experience the power of the Holy Spirit in practical ways in their own lives we as a nation will soar to new heights. We will have God's blessings manifest once again to uphold the Constitution of the United States in the manner in which it was originally intended. It would only take 20-25% of the total population to accomplish the change.

We have had two major outpourings of the Holy Spirit in America. The first was in 1903 and the second in 1906-15. It is time for another.

The intellectual elite will still try attack but it will be difficult to overrule prosperity and a personal sense of well being.

Of course, over time the pendulum will swing back the other way. That is simply man's sinful nature.

If MAGA is not successful then I believe we will descend into the final stages of a civil/cultural war. The end times will accelerate and Biblical prophecy will more rapidly be fulfilled.

MAGA does not replace SHTF. Hopefully, it will postpone it a couple of generations.

Look to Jesus and allow Christ and the Holy Spirit to become the rightful guide on your path in eternity.


Well, that is not a political POV, but a largely religious one. If you really believe all of that I would call it a personal or as you say, tribal fantasy and not in line with what most would regard as the standard American Fantasy. The End Times Fantasy is not reflected in the American Constitution. And for good reason. God in Her wisdom did not want it there. My path to eternity is already assured. I am one with all of the universe and I am at peace.

Edit to add- God and the US Constitution hold that all people are equal. Trump and MAGA hold that some people are vermin. As if somehow God made an error of some kind with them.

Only my first paragraph was political opinion. However, I do believe that politics and God's will are intertwined.

As to your last, ETA, I do not believe that.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[airdvr 210]

DJL

Quote

As for the rest of you who live in the US and thumb your noses at the armed forces...you should be ashamed of yourselves. While you might not agree you should at least give props for the individuals who serve. I doubt any of you would make the kind of sacrifices they do.

Nobody is thumbing their noses at the armed forces.

Read the third post again.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[gowlerk 2,198]

Quote

As to your last, ETA, I do not believe that.

I accept that you do not believe that God made some people vermin. But I do believe that Trump believes some people are vermin.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[RonD1120 62]

wmw999

Ron, what do you see happening to the 65-75% of Americans who aren’t in tune with a Pentecostal-inspired takeover of the US government? Will you have to take their guns?

Wendy P.

That sentiment absolutely boggles my mind. There is no idea of a Pentecostal governmental takeover. We are talking about the spread of the Pentecostal type faith practice.

Never should any law-abiding American be forced to give up their guns.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

gowlerk

Quote

As to your last, ETA, I do not believe that.

I accept that you do not believe that God made some people vermin. But I do believe that Trump believes some people are vermin.

I still disagree.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jakee 1,497]

Quote

While you might not agree you should at least give props for the individuals who serve. I doubt any of you would make the kind of sacrifices they do.

There are huge numbers of people who make incredible sacrifices for the good of society who aren't in the military, yet you never hear anyone making the demand that everyone else should express vocal admiration for them.

No one has to stand up before a sports game while a song is played for aid workers. A few post 9/11 remembrances aside, there are no minute's silences for firefighters. By and large, the military already gets a disproportionately massive amount of praise and recognition compared to any other public service profession. And that's fine, but it's churlish to moan about the people who don't actively contribute to that when there are so many other people out there who don't get anything back at all.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[gowlerk 2,198]

RonD1120

***

Quote

As to your last, ETA, I do not believe that.

I accept that you do not believe that God made some people vermin. But I do believe that Trump believes some people are vermin.

I still disagree.

Then why does he talk of infestation?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.