School shooting solutions

[BIGUN 1,399]

>>"Are you willing to give up any of your access to the toys of war..."

"Give up your" sounds more like a ban than "restricting your"

Perhaps if you enunciated your "restrictions" in the context of furthering this discussion and taking my testicles off the table; it would help. Are you talking about restrictions as in "Smoking is prohibited in this building" Like the "Gun-free zone restriction" which has worked really well OR restricting my ability to own the guns I choose? Cause, that's a ban.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[BIGUN 1,399]

Bob_Church

***
We have officially lost our collective minds.

“Every classroom has been equipped with a five-gallon bucket of river stone,” Helsel explained about his Blue Mountain School District in Schuylkill County, northeast of Harrisburg, in a video broadcast by ABC affiliate 16 WNEP. “If an armed intruder attempts to gain entrance into any of our classrooms, they will face a classroom full of students armed with rocks, and they will be stoned.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2018/03/23/this-school-districts-plan-to-stop-shooters-a-bucket-of-rocks-for-students-to-throw-at-them/?utm_term=.e68510f7fcb2

Yeh, but if it calms people down and settles that knee jerk "we have to do something, anything" urge without arming even more people it's a bargain.

I was looking at it more as a "Palestinians vs. Guns" proposition. Bringing rocks to a gun fight isn't a good long-term plan (ask the numerous Palestinian children that have been shot with that plan).

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[gowlerk 2,246]

Restricting? Lets start with the short barrelled smaller caliber rifles commonly known as "assault rifles". I don't want to get bogged down in defining them, that will always be controversial because arbitrary lines would need to be drawn.

I would propose that you could still own them, but that magazine size would be limited. And you would need to register them. And you would need to store them safely. And that ownership of them could not be transferred without a real background check.

That's what I mean by an example of restrictions.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Bob_Church 7]

BIGUN

******
We have officially lost our collective minds.

“Every classroom has been equipped with a five-gallon bucket of river stone,” Helsel explained about his Blue Mountain School District in Schuylkill County, northeast of Harrisburg, in a video broadcast by ABC affiliate 16 WNEP. “If an armed intruder attempts to gain entrance into any of our classrooms, they will face a classroom full of students armed with rocks, and they will be stoned.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2018/03/23/this-school-districts-plan-to-stop-shooters-a-bucket-of-rocks-for-students-to-throw-at-them/?utm_term=.e68510f7fcb2

Yeh, but if it calms people down and settles that knee jerk "we have to do something, anything" urge without arming even more people it's a bargain.

I was looking at it more as a "Palestinians vs. Guns" proposition. Bringing rocks to a gun fight isn't a good long-term plan (ask the numerous Palestinian children that have been shot with that plan).

Maybe, but I was thinking it might be more of about "ok, can we get back to the lesson plans now?

[BIGUN 1,399]

gowlerk

Restricting? Lets start with the short barrelled smaller caliber rifles commonly known as "assault rifles". I don't want to get bogged down in defining them, that will always be controversial because arbitrary lines would need to be drawn.

I would propose that you could still own them, but that magazine size would be limited. And you would need to register them. And you would need to store them safely. And that ownership of them could not be transferred without a real background check.

That's what I mean by an example of restrictions.

I'm all for that.

Mass Shootings Proposal Thread. In fact, the entire first line in the proposal was a direct theft from your Canadian Model.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[gowlerk 2,246]

Yes, most of my thinking on this is based on the Canadian model. Because it seems to be working fairly well and at the same time is less restrictive than the European or Australian models. The biggest weakness in our system is that determined gangs can still fairly easily get handguns over the border. Which is making for too much gun play on the streets of our largest cities.

We still have men doing murder-suicides sometimes. The level of restriction needed to stop those is beyond the tolerance of our society for gun rules. It is not all that different than the US situation except for where the lines are drawn.

The 2nd amendment has been around for a long time. The problem of mass shootings is much more recent. I feel that it's largely a side effect of the culture wars. Amassing arms and fighting for the right to amass arms is part of that. An unfortunate side effect is that unbalanced people with a score to settle, or who want to be famous can easily get these tools. And media attention is justified, but it also shines the light and shows the way to fame and glory.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Bob_Church 7]

gowlerk

Yes, most of my thinking on this is based on the Canadian model. Because it seems to be working fairly well and at the same time is less restrictive than the European or Australian models. The biggest weakness in our system is that determined gangs can still fairly easily get handguns over the border. Which is making for too much gun play on the streets of our largest cities.

We still have men doing murder-suicides sometimes. The level of restriction needed to stop those is beyond the tolerance of our society for gun rules. It is not all that different than the US situation except for where the lines are drawn.

The 2nd amendment has been around for a long time. The problem of mass shootings is much more recent. I feel that it's largely a side effect of the culture wars. Amassing arms and fighting for the right to amass arms is part of that. An unfortunate side effect is that unbalanced people with a score to settle, or who want to be famous can easily get these tools. And media attention is justified, but it also shines the light and shows the way to fame and glory.

In the 70s the Saturday Night Special was a big problem. You could buy a cheap gun, maybe under $25, use it once and toss it. Those were banned. But then with drug dealing, and imo especially crack, suddenly paying $400 or more for a gun wasn't such a problem. There are a lot more drugs besides crack but it seems like the surge in big money and with it the ability to buy small arsenals kicked in about the same time that crack hit the streets.

[jcd11235 0]

Bob_Church

But then with drug dealing, and imo especially crack …

Why do you single out crack? What makes you think that drug dealers make large amounts of money? The premise of your post is rooted in common misconception.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[BIGUN 1,399]

Quote

The 2nd amendment has been around for a long time. The problem of mass shootings is much more recent. I feel that it's largely a side effect of the culture wars. Amassing arms and fighting for the right to amass arms is part of that. An unfortunate side effect is that unbalanced people with a score to settle, or who want to be famous can easily get these tools.

I agree. There was a time when we used to run around with a gun rack in the back of our pickups - including high school kids. Back then, it wasn't unusual to go hunting after school. Nobody was even concerned with school shootings.

Even 25 years ago when I was in Grad School I used to commute about two hours three days a week. The highway patrol pulled me over on a couple of occasions and they would walk up to the vehicle and just ask, "Where's the gun." You told them cause you weren't breaking any laws. And, the joke was, "You don't pull yours and I won't pull mine." Some idle chit-chat as they ran your license (they'd have you come back to the car) and then they'd send you on your way with a warning or the occasional ticket (depending on your attitude). People were a lot more decent towards each other.

But, times have changed and we need to do something more than one feel-good legislation. We need a complete overhaul. I don't remember which thread it was, but I mentioned something about everyone gets locked on that part of the 2nd amendment that gives us the right to bear arms and they skip over the part about "Well-regulated." So, you'll understand if I'm more about the well-regulated than the term, "restrictions." Part of that is due to that need for an overhaul. I just think/know that if the gubmint starts talking restrictions - The NRA will have a foothold on their chant of "See, they're coming to take your guns." And, we'll be right back here again.
Unfortunately, we have a government that is run by which lobbyist shouts the loudest.

We may be on separate sides of the spectrum on a lot of issues, but we agree on this one.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[wmw999 2,521]

Great post. Only by defining goals that can be agreed to by a plurality, in a way that the plurality can identify with, can positive movement happen. As long as people define “progress” as “whatever pisses off those people I don’t like” it’s not positive movement.

One thing to consider, Bigun. Where you lived, was it assumed that minorities and women had guns? Was the reaction the same?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[BIGUN 1,399]

Quote

Where you lived, was it assumed that minorities and women had guns? Was the reaction the same?

I can only speak to the middle class and below.

Minorities: Mostly being in a lower income bracket - they had a family shotgun. It was used for hunting and someone may have to wait for their Dad or Uncle to get back with "the" gun.

Women: Very much so. It wasn't unusual to see women driving pickups and they too; had a gun rack in the back. Remember that we're only two generations back from the land rush and the phrase, "that's a hard woman" meant that she would shoot the first one who she thought would cause her family harm. To this day, "going to the range" or "goin shootin" is a form of bonding (male or female).

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[kallend 2,106]

Learn CPR.

Moron.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Bob_Church 7]

kallend

Learn CPR.

Moron.

I think all students should learn CPR. But it has jack shit to do with this. It's just a cheap shot by Santorum.

[BIGUN 1,399]

Quote

and he said the students should instead focus on ways to help respond to a mass shooter instead of advocating for tougher laws.

“How about kids, instead of looking to someone else to solve their problem, do something about maybe taking CPR classes or trying to deal with situations [so] that when there is a violent shooter, that you can actually respond to that?” he said during a panel discussion.

Well, after they're done throwing rocks. You know; I just got into a pissing contest with someone influential in the community. His solution? More "Active Shooter" training. I may be one of the few that think the Active Shooter Scenario is a dumb-shit plan. You want unarmed teachers and kids to attack a man with a gun using fire extinguishers. chairs, etc. Kids can't deal "with these situations."

I better stop now that I'm angry. Someone tell Santorum to sit down and STFU, please.

EDIT: No wait!!! Let's send the kids into combat with these magnificent new skills in active shooter.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[JerryBaumchen 1,426]

Hi Keith,

Quote

tell Santorum to sit down and STFU

If only it would work.

He is simply a dipstick looking for a few moments in the news.

Jerry Baumchen

[nolhtairt 0]

Somehow, I don't think dressing like a Communist is going to help your cause, lady.

[gowlerk 2,246]

nolhtairt

Somehow, I don't think dressing like a Communist is going to help your cause, lady.

The right wing sure seems to be frightened of this little girl. The FOX attack machine is working overtime attacking her. Thanks for helping with spreading the troll meme.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[JerryBaumchen 1,426]

Hi Ken,

Quote

The right wing sure seems to be frightened of this little girl.

She, and the others like her, have grown up in the shadow of Columbine. They know that these kids can change the 2nd amendment one day. They should be scared, it's coming.

Jerry Baumchen

[Phil1111 1,149]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Ken,

Quote

The right wing sure seems to be frightened of this little girl.

She, and the others like her, have grown up in the shadow of Columbine. They know that these kids can change the 2nd amendment one day. They should be scared, it's coming.

Jerry Baumchen

Latest Gallup polling:
http://news.gallup.com/poll/229562/preference-stricter-gun-laws-highest-1993.aspx?g_source=link_NEWSV9&g_medium=TOPIC&g_campaign=item_&g_content=U.S.%2520Preference%2520for%2520Stricter%2520Gun%2520Laws%2520Highest%2520Since%25201993

Poll: Most voters say gun policy will be major factor in midterm vote
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign-polls/375230-poll-most-voters-say-gun-policy-will-be-major-factor-in-their-vote-in

[billvon 3,063]

>Somehow, I don't think dressing like a Communist is going to help your cause, lady.

It's funny; I can read a post like this and track it back to which right-wing source you got it from. (Next I expect you to post that you found a video of her ripping the US Constitution in half.)

The right wing is starting to really embarrass themselves over this. This Parkland shooting survivor has been called a "skinhead lesbian" and has been attacked over her clothing, appearance, and what patches she has on her jacket. Right wingers have claimed that she (and her fellow students) have no opinions of their own, and they are merely being coached by anti-gun zealots. Gun advocates have claimed that she should not be listened to because she's too young or she's too impressionable or she doesn't really understand gun violence. Recently right wingers forged a video to show her "ripping the Constitution in half."

(BTW the picture doesn't show the patch on her other shoulder - an Apollo 11 patch. Can't wait to see how you spin that. Maybe a claim that it was secretly a USSR mission?)

[nolhtairt 0]

I already knew about the faked constitution rip.

[lummy 4]

Quote

You want unarmed teachers and kids to attack a man with a gun using fire extinguishers. chairs, etc. Kids can't deal "with these situations."

Do you really believe that attacking with whatever is on hand is all that "active shooter drills" encompass? Have you ever taken an active shooter class?

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[BIGUN 1,399]

lummy

Quote

You want unarmed teachers and kids to attack a man with a gun using fire extinguishers. chairs, etc. Kids can't deal "with these situations."

Do you really believe that attacking with whatever is on hand is all that "active shooter drills" encompass? Have you ever taken an active shooter class?

Yes, working in a college - its mandatory. Being a soldier for half my life; consider it an ineffective pseudo security policy. We can disagree, but you're never going to convince me that ASD is some kind of great response when we can focus on prevention. Please don't spend any time trying to persuade me of the great tenets of ASD. It's not worth my time.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[BIGUN 1,399]

Quote

been attacked over her clothing, appearance, and what patches she has on her jacket.

There's a meme running around and it said something about taking her serious with a communist flag on her sleeve. The flag was Puerto Rico.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

BIGUN

Quote

been attacked over her clothing, appearance, and what patches she has on her jacket.

There's a meme running around and it said something about taking her serious with a communist flag on her sleeve. The flag was Puerto Rico.

No, it was a Cuban flag. Her father was born there.

Snopes

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo