Can an atheist get into Heaven

[jaybird18c 24]

The purpose of the Law isn’t so that you can make attempts at working towards fulfilling it in order to be “good.” Otherwise, the Law isn’t the Law. It’s just good advice. Only God is “good.” The purpose of the Law is to point you towards him.

[billvon 2,990]

>The purpose of the Law isn’t so that you can make attempts at working towards fulfilling
>it in order to be “good.”

Trying to be a better person by following the teachings of Jesus is the best possible use of the Bible. Everything else is distraction.

> The purpose of the Law is to point you towards him.

And you do that by following the path of Jesus - which leads to him. Not by saying the right words. (IMO of course.)

[jakee 1,489]

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Busy now but will respond later.

So?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jaybird18c 24]

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Trying to be a better person by following the teachings of Jesus is the best possible use of the Bible. Everything else is distraction.

The overarching purpose of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is to reveal God and his character to us, specifically (“special revelation,” person) rather than just generally (“general revelation,” creation/conscience) and describes his plan of salvation for his people. What Jesus “taught” was that he is the Son of God, that He is “the way, the truth, and the life,” that “no one comes to the Father but by Him,” that while we were still sinning against him, “He died for us,” and that the only way to Him is to “repent and believe.”

> The purpose of the Law is to point you towards him.

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And you do that by following the path of Jesus - which leads to him. Not by saying the right words. (IMO of course.)

That is completely missing the point. Self-righteousness does not lead to Jesus. Not by, as you say and I would agree, “saying the right words” and I would add “doing the right things.”

Isaiah 64:6 – “We have all become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment.”

[jaybird18c 24]

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So?

THERE IT IS!!!

The MOST useless post of the day!

Thanks jakee!

[billvon 2,990]

>The overarching purpose of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is to reveal God and his
>character to us

I hope not. Because if the purpose of Leviticus (for example) is to reveal God's character, most sane people will want nothing to do with such an evil, cruel and capricious being.

Fortunately most Christians ignore most of that stuff and treat it as useful historical background; a signpost along the road of Christianity that shows where we came from and where we are going. Orthodox Jews attempt to hew to much of it, but few others.

>That is completely missing the point. Self-righteousness does not lead to Jesus.

EXACTLY! _Real_ righteousness, as shown in deeds, leads to Jesus.

[jaybird18c 24]

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I hope not. Because if the purpose of Leviticus (for example) is to reveal God's character, most sane people will want nothing to do with such an evil, cruel and capricious being.

God’s character is always righteous. The God of the OT the same God in the NT.

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most Christians ignore most of that stuff and treat it as useful historical background; a signpost along the road of Christianity that shows where we came from and where we are going. Orthodox Jews attempt to hew to much of it, but few others.

No. Biblical Christians do not.

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EXACTLY! _Real_ righteousness, as shown in deeds, leads to Jesus.

Only God is righteous. Our deeds cannot make us righteous.

I refer you back to this:

“As an atheist, you’ve obviously not made God the top priority in your life. If that be the case, you’ve idolized and assigned other things in your life a higher value. I assume that, in spite of your disbelief, you’ve used the Lord’s name in vain. Keeping his day holy would be out of the question. I’m sure you’ve not always honored your parents. If you’ve ever hated another without just cause, you’ve committed murder in your heart. If you’ve ever looked with lust outside the covenantal bounds of marriage, you’ve committed adultery in your heart, if not also in deed. If you’ve ever stolen something, regardless of value or when, you’re a thief. If you’ve ever told a lie, you’re a liar. If you’ve ever dwelt on the desire to have something which doesn’t belong to you, you’re guilty of coveting.”

[jakee 1,489]

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The MOST useless post of the day!

Because you have no intention of doing what you said you were going to do, and catch up with responding?

See, I actually believed you'd do what you said. You're saying that's a useless thing to do?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,489]

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God’s character is always righteous. The God of the OT the same God in the NT.

Only if you define righteousness as 'what god does'. If you define it according to any remotely acceptable moral code, then no.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[DJL 235]

jakee

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God’s character is always righteous. The God of the OT the same God in the NT.

Only if you define righteousness as 'what god does'. If you define it according to any remotely acceptable moral code, then no.

And none of this is relevant to what happens to me when I die. Religion is a smile on a dog.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[jaybird18c 24]

jakee

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God’s character is always righteous. The God of the OT the same God in the NT.

Only if you define righteousness as 'what god does'. If you define it according to any remotely acceptable moral code, then no.

Romans 3

[jakee 1,489]

jaybird18c

***

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God’s character is always righteous. The God of the OT the same God in the NT.

Only if you define righteousness as 'what god does'. If you define it according to any remotely acceptable moral code, then no.

Romans 3

Ok.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,990]

>God’s character is always righteous.

Not as expressed in Leviticus. I think, for example, if someone got married to a friend of yours, found out she wasn't a virgin on their wedding night and strangled her to death, you would likely decide that such a person is not righteous. But that is what Leviticus demands.

Thus most people deal with that dichotomy by saying "old laws. Different times. Not valid any more; not really what God wants.

>No. Biblical Christians do not.

Yes, they do. Biblical Christians sometimes curse. They receive communion even while wearing glasses or contacts (against the law) or wearing a polyester blend shirt (against the law.) They sometimes shave their heads. Christians have even been known to breed mules!

> Our deeds cannot make us righteous.

That is where we differ.

A man who professes belief in Jesus and spends his days counting his money, defrauding others, and doing what harm he can to other men, women and children is not righteous. A serial rapist is not righteous no matter how holy he considers himself. A mass murderer who goes around murdering gay men is not righteous no matter how many prayers he says while he is doing his killing, and no matter how much he quotes Leviticus.

A man who outwardly professes no beliefs and spends his days helping others without reservation, giving of his money and time, is righteous.

[jcd11235 0]

billvon

A man who outwardly professes no beliefs and spends his days helping others without reservation, giving of his money and time, is righteous.

Given that christian literally means one who follows Christ, such a person has a reasonable claim to being a true christian.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jaybird18c 24]

jcd11235

***A man who outwardly professes no beliefs and spends his days helping others without reservation, giving of his money and time, is righteous.

Given that christian literally means one who follows Christ, such a person has a reasonable claim to being a true christian.

It's a legal issue. It doesn't matter how many times you've helped granny across the street if you're already a criminal. When you die, you've gotta pay the bill. How are you going to do it?

[jcd11235 0]

jaybird18c

It's a legal issue. … When you die, you've gotta pay the bill.

Legal issues belong to Caesar. Caesar can get it from the estate or do without. Being dead, it won't matter to you, either way.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jaybird18c 24]

jcd11235

***It's a legal issue. … When you die, you've gotta pay the bill.

Legal issues belong to Caesar. Caesar can get it from the estate or do without. Being dead, it won't matter to you, either way.

"It is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment." (Hebrews 9:27)

[jcd11235 0]

jaybird18c

["It is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment."

Undoubtedly. But what do I care what people say about me after I'm dead? I'll be dead.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[gowlerk 2,190]

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Religion is a smile on a dog.

A remarkable line from a remarkable song written by a remarkable woman. I've often wondered if she wrote that line totally from her mind or if it was lifted from somewhere. It has always spoken to me from the first time I heard it.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 2,990]

>It's a legal issue.

Right - and I know some see it that way. Dot all the I's, cross all the T's, get a good lawyer and it doesn't matter what you do; you can beat the system and win the prize. Legally.

I think following Christ's example is a better way to be a Christian. To each their own.

[gowlerk 2,190]

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I think following Christ's example is a better way to be a Christian. To each their own.

Christ was a brown skinned radical liberal. His life did not matter to evangelicals. Only his death. Good Friday is tomorrow. The holiest day of the year.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Justincblount 4]

jaybird18c

******A man who outwardly professes no beliefs and spends his days helping others without reservation, giving of his money and time, is righteous.

Given that christian literally means one who follows Christ, such a person has a reasonable claim to being a true christian.

It's a legal issue. It doesn't matter how many times you've helped granny across the street if you're already a criminal. When you die, you've gotta pay the bill. How are you going to do it?

Just torture Jesus a little more and my bill will be paid. Easy peasy.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

billvon

>It's a legal issue.

Right - and I know some see it that way. Dot all the I's, cross all the T's, get a good lawyer and it doesn't matter what you do; you can beat the system and win the prize. Legally.

I think following Christ's example is a better way to be a Christian. To each their own.

Bill,

You are not being helpful. Let him chase his tail.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

JoeWeber

***>It's a legal issue.

Right - and I know some see it that way. Dot all the I's, cross all the T's, get a good lawyer and it doesn't matter what you do; you can beat the system and win the prize. Legally.

I think following Christ's example is a better way to be a Christian. To each their own.

Bill,

You are not being helpful. Let him chase his tail.

I think Bill is being more reasonable and rational than most of the folks in the thread.

I'm still waiting for Jay's "Incontrovertible Evidence". All I've seen so far is second hand accounts.
What's called "hearsay" in a court of law (note that 'hearsay' is not 'heresy'). And generally inadmissible as "Evidence".

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[wmw999 2,439]

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I'm still waiting for Jay's "Incontrovertible Evidence".

When one starts with the knowledge of the result, proving it is simply a matter of finding the evidence. Kind of like a court, where only the prosecution gets to present a case, and the judge is disposed to convict.

When you know the right answer, it's much easier to prove, because you disbelieve everything that disproves.

This presents a twofold problem, however:
1. That means that you're not willing to accept religion on faith, which by its very nature means it can't be proven
2. It's just plain wrong. Learning is advanced by intellectual honesty, which means accepting that sometimes one's most closely-held assumptions are wrong.

I'm OK with not being able to disprove faith, it's what faith is about. And it makes it personal, rather than organizational.

I'm with whoever it was that said that the study of theology, or what God really meant in the Bible, is truly arrogant. Because it's been corrupted over time with what each society considers to be normal (subjugation of women, slavery, separation from/engagement with political systems, etc). What a 12th-century scholar thought the Bible really meant is quite different from what a modern scholar does. And in another 800 years, there'll be yet another interpretation, consistent with modern (or slightly less than modern) values.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)