popsjumper 2 #51 June 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteLuckliy it's easier to do PLF's when landing than training them on the ground, the canopy has always kept my arms up so that the rotation from hip to back is alot smoother :) I agree, far easier to practice under canopy than on the ground. Especially when "on the ground" is over a bed of sharp garden pebbles covered loosely by a canvas sheet. QuoteMeaning...? Did you read the post? "...they should immediately go back to their instructors and discuss PLF techniques and practices...." Ok... Like he said above...practice on the ground even if the only thing you have to work with is over sharp pebbles or whatever. You can't count on having a nice, soft, grassy picnic area to land on when you have an off landing... "canopy has always kept my arms up..." UP? Doing a PLF with your arms UP? No flare? No tuck to protect? Please go back to your instructors and re-do PLF training. Let us know how it went. OK?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrFreefall383 0 #52 June 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteLuckliy it's easier to do PLF's when landing than training them on the ground, the canopy has always kept my arms up so that the rotation from hip to back is alot smoother :) I agree, far easier to practice under canopy than on the ground. Especially when "on the ground" is over a bed of sharp garden pebbles covered loosely by a canvas sheet. QuoteMeaning...? Did you read the post? "...they should immediately go back to their instructors and discuss PLF techniques and practices...." Ok... Like he said above...practice on the ground even if the only thing you have to work with is over sharp pebbles or whatever. You can't count on having a nice, soft, grassy picnic area to land on when you have an off landing... "canopy has always kept my arms up..." UP? Doing a PLF with your arms UP? No flare? No tuck to protect? Please go back to your instructors and re-do PLF training. Let us know how it went. OK? I guess you're right on the ground vs. air issue, better to practice it under safe circumstances. As for the proper technique, there are a few things I was taught, and it would certainly be good to clarify them now while I'm early in training. The first thing I was taught is always to put arms vertically in front of my face and chest for protection. As for the collapsing, the idea is always to limit the force of the impact as much as humanly possible, no matter who teaches you the PLF or where. Technically your arms might be up, but not "up.""If at first you don't succeed... well, so much for skydiving." - aviation cliche Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #53 June 13, 2006 Glad you feel more confident with PLF. I see people teach what they call PLFs at various DZs and it never ceases to amaze me at how poor the standards often are. I was lucky to be taught by the Army and for two days did nothing but PLFs Front Right, Front left, Left, Right, Rear Left and Rear Right. First from standing then front a chair then a small wall, a higher wall and then a decender. I'd say if it wasn't for those hours I wouldn't be here now. I've heard some PIs saying things like just go all floppy like a ball of spagetti and all sorts of crap. Practice doing proper PLFs (not saying you haven't been) if your not sure then ask someone who was/is mil and jumped mil rounds its time well invested.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
simulacra 0 #54 June 13, 2006 Yea, I was taught to put my arms out from the chest when doing a plf, but how is that supposed to be done when you still brakeing your chute? Or using a descender? let the chute go completely? I've hurt myself while training PLF's on the ground but never when I've done it for real I NEVER hurt myself! The way I see it, PLF are there to protect the jumper from landing injuries by depleting energy over a larger area of the body, usually by rolling it off from the outside the legs and over the back, keeping my arms up and reaching for the sky helps my body bend and I dont have to slam my shoulder into the ground... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #55 June 14, 2006 With round parachutes it was often taught to leave the arms high -- it does help some people to bend and dissipate the energy over more of your body, and the loss of last-second control wasn't as important. With squares, there is a need for control all the way down -- if you keep the toggles in your hands, and bring your arms in elbows down to your chest, you'll keep a moderate flare. If you bring your arms all the way down to your sides, you'll keep a full flare, but stand a somewhat greater chance of hurting yourself, because it's a more dynamic position. Either way, the tradeoff is worth it not to just put your arms all the way back up. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
simulacra 0 #56 June 14, 2006 And BTW, when lying on your back, arms out from the chest is equal to up, up/down is relative to the earth, not the orientation of my body :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #57 June 14, 2006 Yes, a little different than rounds... With respect to arm position: I think the better technique is to get a full flare AND have your arms and elbows tucked in where nothing is sticking out to be snapped off by fully extending arms bringing both hands completely down to your crotch. Feet and knees together Bent legs at the knees Full flare to crotch Chin on chest Feet, calf, thigh, butt, side, roll From Cat A E. Landing training 1. Parachutists absorb the shock of a hard landing with a parachute landing fall (PLF). (Click here for illustration.) a. To prepare for the landing, press your feet and knees together with your knees slightly bent and flexed to absorb the initial shock of the landing. b. Flare the canopy with both hands together and close to the front of your body to help prevent wrist and hand injuries. c. Chin to the chest to help prevent neck injuries. d. Upon contact: (1) Maintain the preparation position as much as possible throughout the ensuing landing roll. (2) Lean into the direction of the landing to roll down one side of the body. (3) Contact feet first, then-- (i) Lay over to the side of one calf. (Ii) Continue to roll to the thigh on the same side. (iii) Contact with that hip (side of the butt). (iv) Roll diagonally across your back to the opposite shoulder. (v) Throw your legs overhead, if necessary.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #58 June 15, 2006 QuoteGlad you feel more confident with PLF. Seeing as how my post was made three years ago, my confidence in PLF is not what it once was. Oh yeah, that day three years ago was the last jump I made. I'll probably need a refresher course whenever I get around to jumping again. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JAGOZ 0 #59 June 27, 2006 Finally a post in my area of expertise. If you are face planting from a PLF you are either not turning your feet of or turning the top 1/2 of your body the wrong way. Your feet should be as close to 90 deg to your direction of drift as you can achieve and when your body is at about 45 deg you should turn the shoulder closest to the ground, away from the ground so that you roll over the muscular part of your back. Don't forget a slight bend in your knees it will save your lower back."Chicks dig guys that jump out of Planes! " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
