So sick of the "you are beautiful" message...

[Nataly 38]

I swear these messages all over the place addressed to women, telling us "love yourself, you are beautiful" bla bla...

Why in this day and age are we still continuing to equate "beauty" with "value"??? Yuk! So sick of it.

We badly need a puke emoji on here

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[yoink 321]

Yeah.

Telling people that they're beautiful as a form of empowerment is a fucking horrible thing to do...

[motionscribe 0]

yoink

Yeah.

Telling people that they're beautiful as a form of empowerment is a fucking horrible thing to do...

Not all women/minorities see flattery or being subjects of victimization that deserve our pity, as being a positive thing.

In fact many, if not most see it as an insult and even racist or misogynistic in itself.

What part of "being treated like everyone else" don't you understand?

And this is probably all beside the point.

I think the OP was talking about the idea of physical beauty having any real value whatsoever. . .

[billvon 2,991]

>Why in this day and age are we still continuing to equate "beauty" with "value"?

Because:

1) Some people take it as a compliment (not all, but some)

2) While some people do indeed equate "beauty" with "value" (shallow guys, casting people, fashion photographers) more people nowadays see beauty as part of what makes up someone's value.

3) I think many of us get programmed that way. Even today, many parents will exhort their kids to get dresses with phrases like "Alice, why aren't you wearing your pretty dress? And Tanner, why don't you put on that cool Spiderman shirt?" Hear that enough while you are growing up and you'll start to equate "pretty" with "that which is good."

[tigra 0]

I met a young girl of color about 2 months ago, and she was brave enough to share an experience with a group of us about another kid from her class telling her she had "poop skin". I definitely made a point of telling this lovely 10 year old child that she had beautiful skin and I won't apologize for that.

While I do see your point about too much emphasis being placed on some obscure concept of beauty, I think there are times when we do need to hear we are beautiful.

[Baksteen 84]

Maybe it's not part of "value"so much as self-esteem:

If one has low self esteem (don't love yourself) one might also think they're ugly.

By the way, that is by no means limited to women.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[oldwomanc6 52]

Nataly

I swear these messages all over the place addressed to women, telling us "love yourself, you are beautiful" bla bla...

Why in this day and age are we still continuing to equate "beauty" with "value"??? Yuk! So sick of it.

We badly need a puke emoji on here

Without addressing anyone else's comment, my first thought was why do you consider beauty only physical?

The physical aspect is only one, very fleeting aspect of the word. Even the most "beautiful" person in the world, won't be that for very long. Trust me, I know -- not because I was gorgeous, but what "beauty" I had is long gone, but, still most people find me attractive.

I don't mean physically, because I truly am growing into my username, originally chosen as joke of sorts, but because they like being around me.

Being content is much more attractive than being pretty, and generally "beautiful" people aren't content or happy, and then they are even less happy, because they eventually lose what little they had to hold on to.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[Justincblount 4]

This is stupid. Feminist indoctrination has poisoned the minds and bodies of women. Now they all look like lesbians, shaving their heads and wearing masculine clothes and crap, and just letting themselves go because they think they have to be exactly like men to have value, and men have to be exactly like women in order to not be "toxic". So wrong.

 

Edit: I just noticed the poster's pic... yeah.........

Edited February 25, 2019 by Justincblount

[wmw999 2,446]

And, as a man, how are you qualified to say whether a woman feels as though the only thing important to some people is how she appears? Look at my picture. I don't shave my head. I'm a feminist. I don't have to be like a man to have value to myself, but as long as "it's a man's world," I have to be able to compete on equal terms, and not only on terms that the men set and/or let me compete on.

I'm retired now, so it doesn't really matter any more. But it did when I was working in the software industry. And in the skydiving industry.

Wendy P.

[Justincblount 4]

35 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

"Look at my picture. I don't shave my head. I'm a feminist."

Ok. I don't think there is anything wrong with being a lesbian, and maybe you aren't one, but I'm looking at your pic, and that does appear to be a pixie cut. That is the second wave version of shaving your head.

"I don't have to be like a man to have value to myself, but as long as "it's a man's world," I have to be able to compete on equal terms, and not only on terms that the men set and/or let me compete on."

And this is the main problem with feminism. Men and women aren't supposed to compete, they're supposed to compliment each other. Yin and Yang. This sort of proves the rule you are trying to deny. Sure there are exceptions to the rule, but by and large, we are functionally different, and society is better off with women being mostly feminine, and men being mostly masculine. This androgynous crap we have going on now is a real clusterfuck.

And neither women nor men are satisfied with what the opposite sex is doing. It's not just me. You are probably familiar with that song, "Where have all the cowboys gone"? Yeah, that's how old the problem is.

 

[billvon 2,991]

2 hours ago, Justincblount said:

This is stupid. Feminist indoctrination has poisoned the minds and bodies of women. Now they all look like lesbians, shaving their heads and wearing masculine clothes and crap, and just letting themselves go because they think they have to be exactly like men to have value, and men have to be exactly like women in order to not be "toxic".

???

Not all feminists are lesbians.  Not all lesbians wear masculine clothes and shave their heads.  Nor do they 'let themselves go' or think they have to 'be exactly like men.'

Not sure what environment you have been exposed to to make you think those things, but they are pretty far from reality.  In fact, you may even know some lesbians and not even know it - and some of those women with shaved heads may be just fine being heterosexual.

Quote

Men and women aren't supposed to compete, they're supposed to compliment each other.

Men and women compete just like men and men compete, and just like women and women compete.  Surely if you are a skydiver you have seen competitive teams made up of both sexes?

Quote

Sure there are exceptions to the rule, but by and large, we are functionally different, and society is better off with women being mostly feminine, and men being mostly masculine.

I think society is better off when people be what they want to be, no matter what you think about who they should be.

Quote

This androgynous crap we have going on now is a real clusterfuck.

Why do you think it's a real clusterfuck?  Because some of those "androgynous" women are not attractive to you?  That's not really a reason to change anything.  

[Justincblount 4]

"Not sure what environment you have been exposed to to make you think those things"

Youtube.

"Why do you think it's a real clusterfuck?  Because some of those "androgynous" women are not attractive to you?"

I'm also embarrassed for the soy boys.

[billvon 2,991]

1 hour ago, Justincblount said:

Youtube.

Ah, that explains it.  Get out there and talk to some real people.

Quote

I'm also embarrassed for the soy boys.

I don't even know what that particular insult refers to, so I have no idea what you're talking about there.

[wmw999 2,446]

2 hours ago, Justincblount said:

(Lots of stuff, including commenting on my appearance and decision to “compete when I should be complementing.”)

Dude, I’m 64, so if you saw me in person you’d probably gag and talk about bleaching your eyes anyway. Just sayin’. I was good at what I did, and contributed, regardless of my gender. 

But i guess it’s OK; you’d’ve probably thought I was OK-looking when I was young and had long blond hair and was a skydiver. Except then I was intimidating (so I’m told at least). 

Again, men don’t get to decide women’s stories and purposes. And women don’t get to decide men’s. 

Wendy P. 

[BIGUN 1,312]

13 hours ago, billvon said:

Quote

I'm also embarrassed for the soy boys.

I don't even know what that particular insult refers to, so I have no idea what you're talking about there.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Soy Boy

[Justincblount 4]

13 hours ago, wmw999 said:

you’d’ve probably thought I was OK-looking when I was young and had long blond hair and was a skydiver. Except then I was intimidating (so I’m told at least).

I think almost all women of breeding age are ok-looking. Sometimes I find a woman that lives up to my ideal, who is considerate, positive, self-aware and authentic. Then I usually avoid them, because they are definitely out of my league, and I don't want to develop crippling attachments!

I believe the function of a man is to remove danger from his environment and lead others towards necessity, which I don't know how to do, and can't even remove the disorder from my own life. I don't eat right, exercise, have any schedule, etc... so if I can't somehow learn to self-discipline, I'm unfit to support a family. But, I'm somewhat proud to be able to set aside ego and notice the difference, instead of the childish view that all males are equally men.

Don't get me wrong, if a woman also possesses these traits, that makes them an impressive and formidable person, but it doesn't make them better WOMEN. It's not what the man I describe is looking for in his life, that's for sure!

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

21 hours ago, Justincblount said:

This is stupid. Feminist indoctrination has poisoned the minds and bodies of women. Now they all look like lesbians, shaving their heads and wearing masculine clothes and crap, and just letting themselves go because they think they have to be exactly like men to have value, and men have to be exactly like women in order to not be "toxic". So wrong.

 

Edit: I just noticed the poster's pic... yeah.........

You don't have the slightest clue who & what Nataly is, do you?

Or any idea of the reason behind the avatar pic?

[Justincblount 4]

Not a clue. I just walked in, assumed another feminist was complaining about being complimented, and got overzealous. When I think about it now, they are actually saying something completely different, this idea that "all women are beautiful" being an empty and patronizing message, which almost fits right in with my rant.

And yes, there are other likely reasons to shave one's head besides militant feminism. Like if you had a niece who lost their hair from chemotherapy or something, and wanted to show solidarity with her. Or if you had cancer yourself. I obviously brought a lot of prejudices into this.

[skybytch 273]

21 hours ago, Justincblount said:

I think almost all women of breeding age are ok-looking. Sometimes I find a woman that lives up to my ideal, who is considerate, positive, self-aware and authentic.

Breeding age? What century are you from?  Yes, they are out of your league; no woman who is considerate, positive, self aware and authentic is going to want to hang out with someone who uses terms like "women of breeding age."

22 hours ago, Justincblount said:

Don't get me wrong, if a woman also possesses these traits, that makes them an impressive and formidable person, but it doesn't make them better WOMEN. It's not what the man I describe is looking for in his life, that's for sure!

Possessing those traits do not make a male a better MAN, nor does not possessing these traits make a male LESS of a man.   

Pretty sure most women are not looking for someone who thinks the way you seem to.  Also pretty sure that most evolved males would love to have a partner who can take care of herself and others in her life.

8 hours ago, Justincblount said:

Not a clue. I just walked in, assumed another feminist was complaining about being complimented, and got overzealous.

Yes... you walked right into the women's forum and started insulting women.  Probably not one of your better ideas.

 

8 hours ago, Justincblount said:

I obviously brought a lot of prejudices into this.

Indeed.

 

But hey, thanks anyway, I did need a good belly laugh this morning.

[wmw999 2,446]

All's well that ends well; thanks for the final post re-thinking, Justin.

Wendy P.

[betzilla 56]

On 2/26/2019 at 11:56 PM, Justincblount said:

 other likely reasons to shave one's head besides militant feminism. Like if you had a niece who lost their hair from chemotherapy or something, and wanted to show solidarity with her. Or if you had cancer yourself. I obviously brought a lot of prejudices into this.

...or if you just fucking feel like it because it's your own goddamned head and hair, to do with as you please.

[Justincblount 4]

"Breeding age? What century are you from?"

I would be considered a millenial. But I identify my philosophy as being from pre-history. I try to promote a natural lifestyle, with consideration towards biological differences and health needs, also extending to non-humans and the environment. I want everyone safe and mentally stable.

"Yes, they are out of your league; no woman who is considerate, positive, self aware and authentic is going to want to hang out with someone who uses terms like 'women of breeding age.'"

Why? I use the term "breeding age" because there is a stage in later life where breeding becomes impossible, and a stage in earlier life where it would be unethical or dangerous. If this is a fact of biology, why should it be taboo to speak on?

"Possessing those traits do not make a male a better MAN, nor does not possessing these traits make a male LESS of a man."

What about a corny dweeb who watches cartoons all day, has no job, lives with his mom, leaves candy wrappers all over the place, never held hands with a girl, never won a fight, is deathly afraid of spiders, and a porn addict? I don't want to put words in your mouth, so... is that a valid description of a man?

"Pretty sure most women are not looking for someone who thinks the way you seem to.  Also pretty sure that most evolved males would love to have a partner who can take care of herself and others in her life."

Some of your terms require further definition. What do you mean by "women", or "evolved"? I could swear that "women" means whatever you say it means, and "evolved" means people who agree with you... but that can't be what you meant.

If by "women" you mean individuals with an XX chromosome and an abundance of estrogen, I think most would prefer a man who knows how to lead, and kill spiders.

If by "evolved" you mean indoctrinated into PC culture, then I'm sure they will tell you whatever they think you want to hear, regardless as to whether it's factually correct.

[DJL 235]

12 hours ago, Justincblount said:

The whole damn thing.

You sound like one of those guys who puts stuff on his FB page about how he has trouble finding a girl because he can't find someone who can think on his level.

[billvon 2,991]

12 hours ago, Justincblount said:

Why? I use the term "breeding age" because there is a stage in later life where breeding becomes impossible, and a stage in earlier life where it would be unethical or dangerous. If this is a fact of biology, why should it be taboo to speak on?

Because "breeding age" suggests that you value women by their utility as breeders.

Quote

What about a corny dweeb who watches cartoons all day, has no job, lives with his mom, leaves candy wrappers all over the place, never held hands with a girl, never won a fight, is deathly afraid of spiders, and a porn addict? I don't want to put words in your mouth, so... is that a valid description of a man?

He's a man who sounds like a loser.  If he also cures leukemia, has a boyfriend and wins the 4-way open competition with his team?  Maybe not such a loser.

Quote

If by "women" you mean individuals with an XX chromosome and an abundance of estrogen, I think most would prefer a man who knows how to lead, and kill spiders.

Why do you think that most women need to be led, and can't kill spiders?

Quote

If by "evolved" you mean indoctrinated into PC culture, then I'm sure they will tell you whatever they think you want to hear, regardless as to whether it's factually correct.

Or perhaps "evolved" means a man who doesn't see women as fearful, lost souls looking for someone to lead them.

 

[skybytch 273]

16 hours ago, Justincblount said:

But I identify my philosophy as being from pre-history.

That explains a lot. We don't live in pre-history, we live in the 21st century.  In the 21st century we no longer have to hunt our food or fight off  animal predators so the fact that men are generally physically stronger than women really doesn't matter anymore. 

16 hours ago, Justincblount said:

Why? I use the term "breeding age" because there is a stage in later life where breeding becomes impossible, and a stage in earlier life where it would be unethical or dangerous. If this is a fact of biology, why should it be taboo to speak on?

Breeding is what we do with animals, not humans. Using the term "breeding age" equates women to animals. Women of "child bearing age" would be a better term.  Still a fact of biology but without the negative connotation of "breeding".
 

 

16 hours ago, Justincblount said:

What about a corny dweeb who watches cartoons all day, has no job, lives with his mom, leaves candy wrappers all over the place, never held hands with a girl, never won a fight, is deathly afraid of spiders, and a porn addict? I don't want to put words in your mouth, so... is that a valid description of a man?

Is he over 18? Then biologically he is a man.  Never held hands with a girl?  Maybe he's gay. Still a man.  Never won a fight?  Maybe he's mentally stable enough to have never gotten into one. More of a man than those who pick fights. Deathly afraid of spiders? Seriously? If being afraid of spiders makes him less of a man then does not being afraid of them make a female less of a woman? Porn addict?  Plenty of men out there who meet that description.

16 hours ago, Justincblount said:

What do you mean by "women", or "evolved"? I could swear that "women" means whatever you say it means, and "evolved" means people who agree with you... but that can't be what you meant.

If by "women" you mean individuals with an XX chromosome and an abundance of estrogen, I think most would prefer a man who knows how to lead, and kill spiders.

If by "evolved" you mean indoctrinated into PC culture, then I'm sure they will tell you whatever they think you want to hear, regardless as to whether it's factually correct.

I could swear that "man" means whatever you say it means. If you get to decide what a man is, why don't women get to decide what a woman is? 
When I said women, I meant exactly what I said.  Women.  Females.  We can lead. We can kill spiders.  We can support ourselves and our families. Even if we aren't lesbians.

When I said evolved, I meant just that.  An evolved male understands and appreciates that in most non-biological ways women are the same as men.  An evolved male is considerate of others. An evolved man doesn't assume that a woman with short hair wearing comfortable jeans and a tshirt is a lesbian.   An evolved male doesn't spout misogynistic bullshit.

The first rule of hole digging is knowing when to stop. Pretty sure you've already hit the bottom of this one.

Edited March 1, 2019 by skybytch