By their fruits

[motionscribe 0]

billvon

>So your logic is that you can trick God?

Call it a trick if you like.

DJL called it a trick, not me.

[gowlerk 2,191]

motionscribe

*** It's an amoral religion.

Scripture is quite clear that it's not.


Now that's funny......

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[motionscribe 0]

gowlerk

****** It's an amoral religion.

Scripture is quite clear that it's not.


Now that's funny......

"Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

"Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

"For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God."

"Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

[kallend 2,027]

For just about every quote in the "scripture" you can find another one that contradicts it.

It's all gobbledegook.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,489]

motionscribe

*** It's an amoral religion.

Scripture is quite clear that it's not.

And you're quite clear that it is.

Time and time again you have denied that there is any such thing as 'good' in terms of how people should treat other people. You have refused to recognise any action as a good thing, and you have refused to give any example of what would count as a good deed according to your religion. You've made it quite clear that there is no such thing as good behaviour, and nothing you actually do to other people matters in the slightest.

The only thing that you have said is good is believing in god and Jesus. But since that only benefits the believer, not any other person in the world, your description of christianity is both amoral and self-serving.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,489]

motionscribe

"Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."

What if they find Jesus?

Quote

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

What if they find Jesus?

Quote

"Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

What about when they find Jesus?

Quote

"For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God."

Except for when they find Jesus, right?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[motionscribe 0]

That's only because you selectively quote the points that support your preconceptions and ignore those that don't.

Just like you ignore the bad in a tragic situation just so you can call it a good thing.

...and then you have the balls to say that I'm the one stooping so low to support my argument. . .

[jakee 1,489]

motionscribe

That's only because you selectively quote the points that support your preconceptions and ignore those that don't.

So show me where you've given any definition of a good deed? I've asked you, directly, several times to give an example of some action that human beings can take that is good and you have refused to answer.

The only conclusion available is that you do not believe there is any such thing as a good action, and there is nothing good that one human can do for another. In other words, your religion is completely lacking in morality.

Quote

Just like you ignore the bad in a tragic situation just so you can call it a good thing.

...and then you have the balls to say that I'm the one stooping so low to support my argument. . .

You made the blanket statement that any good deed is purely selfish. Hence the posited situation where the person doing good dies in the process, therefore removing any selfish gain from the situation. Were you honest enough to give a direct answer? No, you weren't. Were you honest enough to respond to a posited situation where the person risks dying to do good but survives? No, you weren't.

You say I'm ignoring the bad in the situation - I'm not. I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive. A good person can save another from a bad person. The involvement of the bad from one does not negate the good in the actions of the other.

On the contrary you are ignoring the good in any situation so you can call it a bad thing. You're saying that any bad thing in any situation means nothing about it can be good. You're also saying the entire world is bad, therefore there can be no such thing as good. It's an amoral and nihilistic view of this reality.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[motionscribe 0]

I've said everything I needed to say in this thread. You need to look no further than the scripture that I've quoted, but I hope you would. If I somehow misrepresented, than I apologize, but that's between me and God.

I appreciate your questioning, but I no longer feel inclined to drag this out any longer.

[RonD1120 62]

Mark 10:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[motionscribe 0]

kallend

For just about every quote in the "scripture" you can find another one that contradicts it.

It's all gobbledegook.

And there are many theories that contradict science as we know it, but we try our best to maintain those that fit within our realm of understanding.

[jakee 1,489]

motionscribe

I've said everything I needed to say in this thread. You need to look no further than the scripture that I've quoted, but I hope you would.

I don't speak Hebrew and I don't know the context of the verses you quoted. According to you, I have no idea what those verses really mean.

Quote

If I somehow misrepresented, than I apologize, but that's between me and God.

You didn't misrepresent, you've been quite clear. There is no such thing as a good action that any person can do for another person, the way that human beings treat each other is irrelevant and inter-personal morality is not part of your beliefs.

Quote

I appreciate your questioning, but I no longer feel inclined to drag this out any longer.

I don't blame you, avoiding the questions must get tiring after a while.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,489]

motionscribe

***
For just about every quote in the "scripture" you can find another one that contradicts it.

It's all gobbledegook.

And there are many theories that contradict science as we know it,
Examples?

Quote

but we try our best to maintain those that fit within our realm of understanding.

We try our best to find out how the universe works. As we develop better sensors, better tests and gather more information then our understanding can be tweaked, developed and added to. It's a living thing, not a static dogma.

What do you do with contradictory scripture?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,489]

RonD1120

Mark 10:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Cool, so again you guys are saying our actions don't matter since we can never be good anyway. Exactly my point.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[motionscribe 0]

Especially when you ignore my answers to your questions and go off on some other tangent . . .

Again, I apologise. There's no doubt that the fault is within me and my lack of ability to explain the mind of God apart from that which he has already explicitly stated. . .

[motionscribe 0]

jakee

******
For just about every quote in the "scripture" you can find another one that contradicts it.

It's all gobbledegook.

And there are many theories that contradict science as we know it,
Examples?

Researchers defy 19th Century law of Physics in 21st century boost for energy efficiency:

https://phys.org/news/2018-11-defy-19th-century-law-physics.html#jCp

jakee

Quote

but we try our best to maintain those that fit within our realm of understanding.

We try our best to find out how the universe works. As we develop better sensors, better tests and gather more information then our understanding can be tweaked, developed and added to. It's a living thing, not a static dogma.

What do you do with contradictory scripture?

Example?

[jakee 1,489]

motionscribe

Especially when you ignore my answers to your questions and go off on some other tangent . . .

I have lost count of the number of times I have asked you whether there is such a thing as a good deed. I haven't ignored any answer to that question, you have never answered it. When the question is whether god cares what you do, the point of whether it's even possible to do a good thing is key, don't you think?

At the moment, it appears that you think that everything we do is bad because we live in a bad world. In which case, again, what does it matter what we do?

Quote

Again, I apologise. There's no doubt that the fault is within me and my lack of ability to explain the mind of God apart from that which he has already explicitly stated. . .

It's impossible to tell if you have the ability to explain or not when you're actively avoiding even trying to explain.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 62]

kallend

For just about every quote in the "scripture" you can find another one that contradicts it.

It's all gobbledegook.

And yet many of us from all walks of life and education levels make sense of it. We find a peace and joy in living that goes beyond anything we have ever imagined. But, when we try to share the good news of our discovery we are confronted with argument, castigation, malice and a host of other negative attacks.

It is like there is some spiritual force that rises up in defiance.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jakee 1,489]

motionscribe

Researchers defy 19th Century law of Physics in 21st century boost for energy efficiency:

https://phys.org/news/2018-11-defy-19th-century-law-physics.html#jCp

The body of the article doesn't support the headline. It says they used Maxwell's equations, not that they defied them. They built on existing work to expand and alter our understanding of the results.

Not that it's unheard of for something to be found out to be wrong. When it is found to be so it is replaced with something better. Again, knowledge isn't dogma, there is nothing that cannot be scrutinised.

What exactly was your point anyway?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[motionscribe 0]

jakee

What exactly was your point anyway?

That like science we can modify our religious beliefs as we gain a better understanding of the cultural, historical and circumstantial context of biblical times, especially as we gain a better understanding of the original languages used in the text.

[jakee 1,489]

motionscribe

***
What exactly was your point anyway?

That like science we can modify our religious beliefs as we gain a better understanding of the cultural, historical and circumstantial context of biblical times, especially as we gain a better understanding of the original languages used in the text.

So how is it possible that I could understand what you were trying to say by looking no further than the snippets of english scripture that you posted?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[motionscribe 0]

jakee

******
What exactly was your point anyway?

That like science we can modify our religious beliefs as we gain a better understanding of the cultural, historical and circumstantial context of biblical times, especially as we gain a better understanding of the original languages used in the text.

So how is it possible that I could understand what you were trying to say by looking no further than the snippets of english scripture that you posted?

What I posted was rather clear.

You still have yet to give me an example that contradicts itself.

And there are only two possible outcomes.

Like science, we find a way to make it fit, otherwise we don't know, yet. . .

[jakee 1,489]

motionscribe

What I posted was rather clear.

And so is 'Thou shalt not kill.' In English, without context, its meaning is unarguably clear and definite. But you have explained that in reality it absolutely does not mean that, it says something else entirely because Hebrew words aren't the same as English words.

So how am I supposed to know what the snippets of English scripture you posted really mean in Hebrew? How is it possible that they are all I need to explain your position to me? This whole conversation started because you claimed that a clear and unambiguous English scriptural passage didn't say what I thought it said

Quote

You still have yet to give me an example that contradicts itself.

Off the top of my head I don't know. The way you replied to Kallend sounded like you could already think of some.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[motionscribe 0]

jakee

***What I posted was rather clear.

And so is 'Thou shalt not kill.' In English, without context, its meaning is unarguably clear and definite. But you have explained that in reality it absolutely does not mean that, it says something else entirely because Hebrew words aren't the same as English words.

So how am I supposed to know what the snippets of English scripture you posted really mean in Hebrew? How is it possible that they are all I need to explain your position to me? This whole conversation started because you claimed that a clear and unambiguous English scriptural passage didn't say what I thought it said

Ok, so do you believe me? If so, would I not then try to explain the Greek passages as well to the best of my ability if they needed any additional explanation?

[DJL 235]

motionscribe

*********Your logic is like not being concerned with guns and bullets until one is pointed at you and you are really sorry that you're now in a situation where you might get shot.

I don't know, it seems that would that be more analogous to an atheist coming face to face with God after they've died.

Ah...so the trick is being sorry just before you die, I'll try to remember that.

So your logic is that you can trick God?

Your logic is that God is so conceited that at the moment of death he goes "Gotcha! You're going to hell!" As if there's any reason that your version of the afterlife is more convincing than the the various beliefs that the other 67% of the world population follow?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher