A message one week before the election comment

[Phil1111 1,149]

rushmc

...

Swing and a miss


Lol

Like trumps efforts to help working Americans?

In U.S., wage growth is being wiped out entirely by inflation
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/08/10/america-wage-growth-is-getting-wiped-out-entirely-by-inflation/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.737adeeacd50

Trump's Economic Scorecard: Higher Inflation, Flat Wages And A Ballooning Federal Deficit
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/08/11/trumps-economic-scorecard-higher-inflation-flat-wages-and-a-ballooning-federal-deficit/#41b807ee22fa

[BIGUN 1,409]

jakee

***Good, you found it. It's OK to apologize when you're wrong.

Speaking of which, you said you could make an argument about the 14th, but you haven't yet attempted it. Can you, or not?

I'm sorry, but you're mistaken. I did and offered an opinion also.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[jakee 1,563]

BIGUN

******Good, you found it. It's OK to apologize when you're wrong.

Speaking of which, you said you could make an argument about the 14th, but you haven't yet attempted it. Can you, or not?

I'm sorry, but you're mistaken. I did...

No, you didn't. You said the argument would involve a certain concept, but you haven't stated any part of what that argument would be.

It's like claiming an argument could be made that the second doesn't protect gun ownership, then saying only that the argument would involve the concept that people shouldn't be allowed to have guns. Has any argument relevant to the 2nd amendment itself just been made? No, of course it hasn't.

In the same way you have not made, nor attempted to make, any argument regarding how the 14th amendment could be limited from soli to sanguinis.

If you can, I'd like to hear it. If you can't, just say so.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

BIGUN

******

Quote

Your constitution states black people are worth less then white people

You're mistaken.

Article 1, section 2, clause 3 of the United States Constitution says:

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons

Good, you found it. It's OK to apologize when you're wrong.

Explain how that doesn't say black people are worth less. I mean it is easy to bury your head in the sand, lots of Germans did it in the 30s and lots of Americans are doing it now.

[billvon 3,070]

>Explain how that doesn't say black people are worth less.

He will claim that since the word "black" isn't used, it doesn't say black people are worth less. Those people worth 3/5ths could be anyone. Why, someone could decide that white wealthy people aren't free and so THEY are the 3/5ths!

Don't you know how this game is played by now?

"Inner city youths who don't work and listen to rap music are the real problem."
"That's a bit racist, don't you think?"
"WHAT? I never said black! I am not a racist! You're the racist."

[SkyDekker 1,465]

That would be a pretty ignorant reading of your constitution. There isn't much debate that 'other People" refers to slaves. There isn't much debate that slaves were overwhelmingly black.

I guess revisionist history is strong. But considering that to this day, the US is unable to get an Amendment ratified that says women and men are equal, the whole sentiment really hasn't changed much. Rich, white men are absolutely terrified they will lose their position of control. Terrified the world might be a better place without them in control.

[billvon 3,070]

>There isn't much debate that 'other People" refers to slaves. There isn't much debate that
>slaves were overwhelmingly black.

Of course. And everyone knows that.

But in dog whistle politics, the trick is telling your supporters "don't worry, the darkies won't _really_ get a vote" while being able to say to your adversaries "hey, we give EVERYONE at least part of a vote! And I never mentioned race at all. I'm no racist!" Language tricks like the one above let them do that.

[JoeWeber 2,824]

billvon

>There isn't much debate that 'other People" refers to slaves. There isn't much debate that
>slaves were overwhelmingly black.

Of course. And everyone knows that.

But in dog whistle politics, the trick is telling your supporters "don't worry, the darkies won't _really_ get a vote" while being able to say to your adversaries "hey, we give EVERYONE at least part of a vote! And I never mentioned race at all. I'm no racist!" Language tricks like the one above let them do that.

"They say when trouble comes close ranks, so the white people did."

Jean Rhys. The Wide Sargasso Sea

[BIGUN 1,409]

billvon

>Explain how that doesn't say black people are worth less.

He will claim that since the word "black" isn't used, it doesn't say black people are worth less. Those people worth 3/5ths could be anyone. Why, someone could decide that white wealthy people aren't free and so THEY are the 3/5ths!

Bill, if you're going to speak for me: then please understand my position first. The fact is we all know that "Other Persons" meant slaves. Having said that, the position is one of politics and compromise.

Quote

The three-fifths clause is perhaps the most misunderstood provision of the U.S. Constitution. The clause provides that representation in Congress will be based on "the whole Number of free Persons" and "three fifths of all other Persons." The "other Persons" were slaves. Despite popular understandings, this provision did not declare that African Americans were three-fifths of a person. Rather, the provision declared that the slave states would get extra representation in Congress for their slaves, even though those states treated slaves purely as property.

Thus, this was a provision that was not directly about race but about status and the allocation of political power. Free blacks were counted in exactly the same way as whites. The clause did not say that a slave was three-fifths of a person. The clause said nothing about free blacks, who were treated by the clause exactly as free whites were.

Rather, the clause provided a mathematical formula that allowed for the allocation of representatives in Congress that factored in the slave population. No slaves could vote in the country (although free blacks could vote in a number of states), and the clause did not provide a voice for slaves. This was about the distribution of political power among the states.

SOURCE: https://www.theroot.com/three-fifths-clause-why-its-taint-persists-1790895387 by Paul Finkelman

It's a good read.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[jakee 1,563]

BIGUN

Bill, if you're going to speak for me: then please understand my position first. The fact is we all know that "Other Persons" meant slaves. Having said that, the position is one of politics and compromise.

Does that make it better?

Quote

The three-fifths clause is perhaps the most misunderstood provision of the U.S. Constitution. The clause provides that representation in Congress will be based on "the whole Number of free Persons" and "three fifths of all other Persons." The "other Persons" were slaves. Despite popular understandings, this provision did not declare that African Americans were three-fifths of a person. Rather, the provision declared that the slave states would get extra representation in Congress for their slaves, even though those states treated slaves purely as property.

I would say that not being considered a person at all is worth less than being 3/5 of a person, just as being 3/5 of a person is worth less than being a whole person.

So really, I'd agree that the 3/5 thing is a red herring, but only because it distracts from the fact that what the constitution says is actually much worse.


Anyway, are you putting any of this effort towards figuring out what argument can be made about the 14th?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,070]

>Having said that, the position is one of politics and compromise.

Absolutely. And while today we think that the 3/5ths was a way to marginalize blacks, back then it was a bargaining chip offered to _increase_ the representation of slaveowning states.

Neverthess, it was an early example of a dog whistle - a compromise that let representatives of southern states tell their constituents "I'd never let those darkies be equal to one of you - but I _still_ got us more power!" while telling representatives from white states "well, that's a compromise you forced on us; it's not like we think they are less of a person than anyone else."

(BTW I should not have claimed that you would use that argument, that was unfair. Sorry about that.)

[BIGUN 1,409]

No worries. Thank you.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[gowlerk 2,249]

The fight over representation and the counting of numbers continues today. Seats are allocated according to the number of people, be they citizens or not. This is the reason for the current battle over a citizenship question on the 2020 census. It's not enough for the Republican party to discourage citizens from voting. They also want to discourage non citizens from being counted as people.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[kallend 2,106]

SkyDekker

That would be a pretty ignorant reading of your constitution. There isn't much debate that 'other People" refers to slaves. There isn't much debate that slaves were overwhelmingly black.

I guess revisionist history is strong. But considering that to this day, the US is unable to get an Amendment ratified that says women and men are equal, the whole sentiment really hasn't changed much. Rich, white men are absolutely terrified they will lose their position of control. Terrified the world might be a better place without them in control.

I am white, elderly, and quite well off too. I am not in the slightest bit afraid that my "position of control" will be usurped by giving equal rights to women, letting women control their own bodies without interference from me, having gender parity in congress, a female president, etc. In fact I suspect the country will be a much better place if all those things come about.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,106]

Phil1111

***...

Swing and a miss


Lol

Like trumps efforts to help working Americans?

In U.S., wage growth is being wiped out entirely by inflation
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/08/10/america-wage-growth-is-getting-wiped-out-entirely-by-inflation/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.737adeeacd50

Trump's Economic Scorecard: Higher Inflation, Flat Wages And A Ballooning Federal Deficit
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/08/11/trumps-economic-scorecard-higher-inflation-flat-wages-and-a-ballooning-federal-deficit/#41b807ee22fa

Looks like GM is going to be laying off a whole bunch of workers - thanks to the Trump tariffs.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JerryBaumchen 1,436]

Hi John,

Quote

I suspect the country will be a much better place if all those things come about.

Based upon the work decisions I see my daughter & my daughter-in-law make as managers in their respective corporations, I am convinced we would be a much better place.

This old sabre rattling has influenced this country's actions far too much IMO.

I agree with everything in your post even though I am only 'fairly' well off.

Jerry Baumchen

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Rather, the provision declared that the slave states would get extra representation in Congress for their slaves, even though those states treated slaves purely as property.

So explain to me how this means that blacks are not worth less than white people according to that part of your constitution? Because you told me I was wrong when I said that. So explain it.

So far your explanation comes across as: look how nice we were, we could have ignored them all together, but we gave them some value anyways.

[rushmc 23]

Phil1111

***...

Swing and a miss


Lol

Like trumps efforts to help working Americans?

In U.S., wage growth is being wiped out entirely by inflation
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/08/10/america-wage-growth-is-getting-wiped-out-entirely-by-inflation/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.737adeeacd50

Trump's Economic Scorecard: Higher Inflation, Flat Wages And A Ballooning Federal Deficit
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/08/11/trumps-economic-scorecard-higher-inflation-flat-wages-and-a-ballooning-federal-deficit/#41b807ee22fa

Steeerike 2

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[RonD1120 62]

kallend

******...

Swing and a miss


Lol

Like trumps efforts to help working Americans?

In U.S., wage growth is being wiped out entirely by inflation
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/08/10/america-wage-growth-is-getting-wiped-out-entirely-by-inflation/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.737adeeacd50

Trump's Economic Scorecard: Higher Inflation, Flat Wages And A Ballooning Federal Deficit
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/08/11/trumps-economic-scorecard-higher-inflation-flat-wages-and-a-ballooning-federal-deficit/#41b807ee22fa

Looks like GM is going to be laying off a whole bunch of workers - thanks to the Trump tariffs.

Sounds good to me. I do not hold stock in Government Motors. What the government gives it can also take away.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[motionscribe 0]

rushmc

Should the Republicans keep the house, I want to say thank you to all of those people here who demonize the president and supported the Kavanaugh assassination. It is because of those things that the Republicans might keep the house. If that happens, thank you. Without your help there would have been a little chance of this happening.

If the republicans remain control, it's only because they are united regardless if they disagree with one another. Despite the shit fest, they project an image of power and the ability to get shit done.

I suspect many would rather go democrat, but they just don't trust their lack of focus and ability.

Personally, I felt the republicans overwhelming victory would have been enough for them to humble themselves and unite the country. How naive.

[kallend 2,106]

LIAR

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,070]

So Trump just launched the most racist political ad since the Willie Horton era, showing central Americans as violent, drug crazed criminals who are coming to the US to kill cops.
It features Luis Bracamontes, a Mexican who killed two deputies in the US. It is meant to claim that the Democrats are soft on people like that.

Only two problems. One, Luis entered the country to later kill cops was while GWB was president. Two, he was actually arrested, but then released for no good reason - by Joe Arapio, one of Trump's heroes (and who Trump pardoned.)

He had entered the country before that, been arrested and deported - under Bill Clinton. It was not until GWB became president that he was able to enter and stay. And had Arpaio not released him, he would have been in prison rather than killing deputies.

[RonD1120 62]

American exceptionalism: We’re not ‘just another country’
October 31, 2018 | John R. Smith |

Quote

We’re here. At the crossroads. At an election where America either continues to be exceptional, or we descend into a morally mongrel nation that has scuttled its hard-won greatness. This country faces a danger from which the nation needs to be spared. The menace is from those miscreants who claim America is not exceptional in its values and its greatness. Such notions are destructive malignancies, heaped on us by those who believe in Marxist multiculturalism and a worldwide government that would reduce America to kow-tow toadying, while financially subsidizing “needy” failing nations.

I want to see Red across America on 7 Nov. Praying again!

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/10/31/american-exceptionalism-were-not-just-another-country-688950

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[yoink 321]

RonD1120

***

Looks like GM is going to be laying off a whole bunch of workers - thanks to the Trump tariffs.

Sounds good to me. I do not hold stock in Government Motors.


Ahh. So you're all about preserving American heartland jobs if it benefits YOU PERSONALLY somehow. If you don't hold stocks in the companies then who gives a shit about the employment of the citizens there, right? Glad we got that straightened out.

[yoink 321]

RonD1120

American exceptionalism: We’re not ‘just another country’
October 31, 2018 | John R. Smith |

Quote

We’re here. At the crossroads. At an election where America either continues to be exceptional, or we descend into a morally mongrel nation that has scuttled its hard-won greatness. This country faces a danger from which the nation needs to be spared. The menace is from those miscreants who claim America is not exceptional in its values and its greatness. Such notions are destructive malignancies, heaped on us by those who believe in Marxist multiculturalism and a worldwide government that would reduce America to kow-tow toadying, while financially subsidizing “needy” failing nations.

I want to see Red across America on 7 Nov. Praying again!

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/10/31/american-exceptionalism-were-not-just-another-country-688950

America isn't exceptional. It's pretty good, but it has its flaws, and some of them are huge.

To ignore those is the real 'destructive malignancy' propagated by cowards like Mr. Smith who would prefer to live in a fascist fantasy rather than deal with the reality of the world around them.