Argus SB AMMO130514/1

[Gary73 10]

Came across an Argus that was serviced in 2016 and got a new battery in 2017, but its serial number is on the "not airworthy" list in the above-mentioned SB from 2014. So does the service make it airworthy, or what? Thanks!

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

[gowlerk 2,216]

Good question. Since the SB names the only two US facilities authorized to service them I would contact one of them for their opinion. Either Chuting Star or Para Concepts. I'm not sure why you are asking for an opinion here.

Personally, I will not pack an Argus because I can not contact the manufacturer for advice. But that is only my opinion. What is yours? Your profile indicates you are someone with far more knowledge and experience than myself.

[Gary73 10]

Chuting Star no longer services Argus AADs. I have a call into Para Concepts, but was hoping someone might have a definitive answer before Monday.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

[gowlerk 2,216]

I can see your dilemma then. I wish those units would just go away.... But if the service is documented as done by an authorized centre I would consider the grounding to no longer apply. Not that common sense means much in something like this. Good luck.

[pchapman 279]

I'm just playing at this, but from the logic of the bulletin it sounds like the there's no problem.

"All systems that had their last functional check-up carried out over 4 years + 3 months are considered not
airworthy and should not be installed in any parachute system."

And then it lists those that aren't airworthy. Although technically not stated, it is clearly is supposed to mean at that point in time (13 June 2014), and because of the reason just mentioned. Not grounded forever and ever into the future for no stated reason. If it was on the list but its LAST checkup is now within 4 years + 3 mo (despite whatever lack of maintenance in the past), then it is OK.

I vaguely recall there was a time when the 'check every 4 years' requirement was specified only very vaguely or in different ways in different publications. Every 4 years on the dot? 4 calendar years? I think this bulletin helped clarify that.

So something serviced in '16 will be fine for any US repack coming up soon. Subject to the normal requirements to replace the battery every repack.

[ufk22 33]

As long as you’re willing to pack something that could lock a reserve closed, no problem.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[gowlerk 2,216]

ufk22

As long as you’re willing to pack something that could lock a reserve closed, no problem.

It can not do that if it is floor mounted.

[Gary73 10]

gowlerk

***As long as you’re willing to pack something that could lock a reserve closed, no problem.

It can not do that if it is floor mounted.

1. It's a Wings, so yeah, no problem.
2. That only happened once, when a piece of lead shot, probably from a packing weight, got into the cutter head. No way that happened at the factory and it isn't happening here, so also no problem.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

[gowlerk 2,216]

May as well turn it into another Argus bashing thread I guess. Except I think its been done over about a thousand times. My main problem with them is that the company is basically gone, so there is not real support. You still can not have one if you are jumping in Eloy.

[Top_Bunk 0]

My impression was that that service bulletin was simply a list of units overdue for service, and after the service they are once again airworthy. Please verify this with Paraconcepts.

Was this unit unused with an expired pack job since 2017? They should have the batteries replaced at every repack.

[councilman24 37]

On 1/12/2019 at 4:42 PM, gowlerk said:

 

It can not do that if it is floor mounted.

No, but it can fire, hold the loop and then let go at anytime.  Like on climb out at altitude and take down a whole airplane.

[gowlerk 2,216]

12 hours ago, councilman24 said:

No, but it can fire, hold the loop and then let go at anytime.  Like on climb out at altitude and take down a whole airplane.

Yes, that is why SkyDive AZ refuses to allow them on their aircraft. Just one of the reasons I won't pack one.

[pchapman 279]

This is largely ancient history stuff, but this reply is based on what I see in my notes from the Argus war era:

There were 5 incidents or accidents that I have records of. All but one of which involved the early cutter design. All those cutters should have been removed from service by a service bulletin. The only new cutter involved in an incident was the San Marcos, Texas one, where the investigation found a steel ball such as from a shot bag within the cutter, and with a damaged cutter. The conclusion was that it was the foreign object that prevented the cutter from fully cutting the loop.

So the new style cutter with a harder cutting edge never seems to have had any issue cutting the loop (when no steel foreign object was involved).

It just seems like nobody trusted the Argus folks any more by that point, so many rig companies (and the occasional DZ) didn't want to give them a chance any more, new cutter or not.

It didn't seem to based on any evidence from the track record of the new cutter. Who knows what would have happened had Argus' remained in more common use. It is up for debate whether a device should be banned without evidence of issues with the new system, while at the same time there is a lack of trust of the company as a whole.

 

As for "letting go on climbout and taking down the whole airplane", I'm not sure why the Argus would be likely to activate unexpectedly on the way up. The chance of something going bad on climbout is in my opinion much much higher from other things -- multi-way climbouts, poorly packed BOC's, newbies in general, whatever. I wouldn't be much concerned about some Argus inexplicably deciding to pop while in the plane, and then have the new style cutter for the first time ever hold the rig closed until climbout...

 

Edited February 15, 2019 by pchapman
additions

[gowlerk 2,216]

To be clear, I agree that the whole issue of a cutter failing to cut all the way and leaving a P/C ready to burst out at any time is the reddest of herrings. My main reason for not packing them is the complete lack of support from the manufacturer.