DJL 235 #76 February 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said: $100 Billion? Really? Got any proof of that? Trump now says that figure is $250 bn/yr. This is up from the $113 bn/yr he quoted while on the campaign trail so I guess he's saying the situation has gotten worse during his two years in office. The Anti-Immigration group FAIR (Federation for American Immigration Reform) is where the $113 number is from. They're a thinly disguised hate group and their report is described as fatally flawed according to CATO and other sources. Even Heritage Foundation only says $54bn. FAIR reached that number by doing things like including the cost of education, etc to the legal children of illegal immigrants and adding in may other vague estimates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #77 February 13, 2019 Right. Everyone who quotes these insanely high numbers has a long history of advocating hate towards immigrants. Real 'welfare' numbers that I can find are more like $5B - $8B. And those numbers completely ignore the tax contributions from illegals using fake SSNs (they pay taxes & SS withholdings, but cannot get refunds on overpayment or receive benefits when they get old). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #78 February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Coreece said: Yes, I've already addressed that. Please stop talking past me. Additional security might funnel more traffickers to those official border crossings where we would have more control over the issue and will now have more resources to identify trafficking in part by the executive order that I mentioned earlier. We could have more control over the issue, yes. But spending the money on a wall instead of on getting "more control over the issue" (which means more courtrooms, more lawyers, more investigators) then the problem gets worse, not better. Why not spend the money on the thing that's causing 80% of the problem, rather than 20% of it? Quote Right so about 80% are coming in through official border points as I've already referenced. So what about the ones coming in through unofficial border points like "wide-open areas between ports of entry?" It's seems like you're completely ignoring that issue. Not at all. It's an issue. But if you want to have an effect, you solve the big problems, not the little ones. If you wanted to make a difference in skydiving deaths, would you concentrate on deaths under canopy, or freefall collisions between skydivers and non-skydiving aircraft? If you had limited money to spend on skydiving safety, where would it go? The question comes down to - do you want to solve the problem, or do you want a wall instead? Quote I think a 50-70 ft conctrete wall is a bit of overkill as well, but if additional security and a few more barriers in problematic areas will help in some of the ways I've mentioned above, then I don't think democrats will have a problem. And it looks like that is what's going to happen. I agree - with the emphasis on "additional security" and additional investigative/enforcement resources at border crossings, where the big problem is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #79 February 13, 2019 Rep. Mark Meadows (R, NC), the head of the House Freedom Caucus: “Only in Washington, D.C., can we start out with needing twenty-five billion dollars for border-security measures and expect applause at $1.37 billion. I mean, only in D.C. is that a winning deal.” So much winning! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #80 February 13, 2019 3 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said: Hi BV, So could you tell us just what happened to, 'I'll get Mexico to pay for it.'? Curious minds want to know, Jerry Baumchen I forgot to mention this but... Trump could very well make Mexico pay for it indirectly, out of the asset forfeiture fund. El Chapo Guzman, I believe had some $14 Billion seized. You'd think Trump could elect to use that, wouldn't you? That's just one way. Irregardless of where Trump gets the money from, a barrier is going to get built, one way or another. Just sit back, and watch. You'll see. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #81 February 13, 2019 Just now, BillyVance said: I forgot to mention this but... Trump could very well make Mexico pay for it indirectly, out of the asset forfeiture fund. El Chapo Guzman, I believe had some $14 Billion seized. You'd think Trump could elect to use that, wouldn't you? That's just one way. Probably better used to pay down the historically high deficit, or perhaps fund some border security - rather than a useless monument to Trump. Quote Irregardless of where Trump gets the money from, a barrier is going to get built, one way or another. Just sit back, and watch. You'll see. No doubt. They will put up some cyclone fencing, have a big party with a MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner and pat themselves on the back. And Trump supporters will eagerly lap it up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #82 February 13, 2019 19 minutes ago, BillyVance said: I forgot to mention this but... Trump could very well make Mexico pay for it indirectly I'm sure MS-13 would be willing to paint both sides of the wall for free so at least that part is covered. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #83 February 13, 2019 27 minutes ago, BillyVance said: I forgot to mention this but... Trump could very well make Mexico pay for it indirectly, out of the asset forfeiture fund. El Chapo Guzman, I believe had some $14 Billion seized. You'd think Trump could elect to use that, wouldn't you? That's just one way. If under forfeiture laws that money can rightfully be claimed by the US, how is Mexico paying for it? It would seem that in that scenario the US is still paying for a wall from money belonging to the US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #84 February 13, 2019 28 minutes ago, Coreece said: I'm sure MS-13 would be willing to paint both sides of the wall for free so at least that part is covered. Probably have to give em a ride from LA, but maybe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #85 February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, BillyVance said: I forgot to mention this but... Trump could very well make Mexico pay for it indirectly, out of the asset forfeiture fund. El Chapo Guzman, I believe had some $14 Billion seized. You'd think Trump could elect to use that, wouldn't you? That's just one way. Irregardless of where Trump gets the money from, a barrier is going to get built, one way or another. Just sit back, and watch. You'll see. They are trying to seize the money. They don't actually have any of it yet. There's a good chance the US will not see much (if any) of it. Ever. I'll sit back and watch, but I don't expect to see any wall get built. Right now, Trump is claiming that he wants to FINISH the wall. But it's not even started. There's some repair & upgrades of fencing that's already in place (like in El Paso). But that was put in a while back. It's not new. But the idiots don't seem to realize that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,368 #86 February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, BillyVance said: So could you tell us just what happened to, 'I'll get Mexico to pay for it.'? Hi BV, How about you read what I wrote & stay on subject? Your 'indirectly' effort makes zilch sense. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #87 February 14, 2019 From the guy who claims to have written "The Art of the Deal" - He rejects an offer of $1.6 billion for border security and shuts down the government over it for a record-breaking time, because it's not enough. Pelosi then offers him $1.3 billion for border security and he jumps at it. Pelosi 1, Trump 0. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #88 February 14, 2019 13 minutes ago, billvon said: From the guy who claims to have written "The Art of the Deal" - He rejects an offer of $1.6 billion for border security and shuts down the government over it for a record-breaking time, because it's not enough. Pelosi then offers him $1.3 billion for border security and he jumps at it. Pelosi 1, Trump 0. Well, the guy who's name is on the cover of that book (we all know he didn't actually write it) also couldn't run a casino without declaring bankruptcy. Three times. Admittedly, he turned a hell of a profit on those bankruptcies. But he screwed over a whole lot of people in the process. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #89 February 14, 2019 So now he says he's going to sign the bill AND declare an emergency. It will be fun watching Trump supporters fawn all over him for doing this, right after they condemned Obama for taking unilateral action. Here's what the atmosphere is like for the GOP on Capital Hill: "I pray" Trump signs the bill, said Sen. Richard Shelby, the Republican chairman of the Appropriations Committee. He said he spoke with Trump Wednesday night and the President was in "good spirits." It's like they are trying to predict the actions of a 2 year old with diaper rash. "Well, he's sort of grumpy but he might not have a tantrum, because he's been in a good spirits ever since McConnell got him that rattly toy and promised him a parade." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,207 #90 February 14, 2019 54 minutes ago, billvon said: Trump supporters fawn all over him for doing this, right after they condemned Obama for taking unilateral action. I'm already hearing angry aggressive sounding conservative commentators being interviewed on NPR trying to justify the "emergency". Some of their rationalizations are quite humourous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #91 February 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, gowlerk said: I'm already hearing angry aggressive sounding conservative commentators being interviewed on NPR trying to justify the "emergency". Some of their rationalizations are quite humourous. Game time. Which liberal losers are these quotes from? ================ "The President acts like he's a king. He ignores the Constitution. He arrogantly says, 'If Congress will not act, then I must.' These are not the words of a great leader. These are the words that sound more like the exclamations of an autocrat." ================ "Undeterred, [the President] appears to be going forward. It is lawless. It is unconstitutional. He is defiant and angry at the American people. If he acts by executive diktat, he will not be acting as a president, he will be acting as a monarch. Thankfully, the framers of our Constitution, wary of the dangers of monarchy, gave the Congress tools to rein in abuses of power. They believed if the President wants to change the law, he cannot act alone; he must work with Congress. He may not get everything he wants, but the Constitution requires compromise between the branches. A monarch, however, does not compromise. As Alexander Hamilton explains in Federalist 69, a monarch decrees, dictates, and rules through fiat power, which is what he is attempting. When the President embraces the tactics of a monarch, it becomes incumbent on Congress to wield the constitutional power it has to stop it. Congress, representing the voice of the people, should use every tool available to prevent the president from subverting the rule of law. When the President usurps the legislative power and defies the limits of his authority, it becomes all the more imperative for Congress to act. And Congress should use those powers given to it by the Constitution to counter a lawless executive branch—or it will lose its authority." ====================== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #92 February 14, 2019 Looks like the White House was aware that illegal aliens were working at Trump properties - and covered it up. ================================= White House aide allegedly knew undocumented immigrants worked at Trump golf club, drawing attention from New York AG By CHRIS SOMMERFELDT NEW YORK DAILY NEWS FEB 13, 2019 | 4:45 PM The White House Twitter wrangler oversaw workers he knew were undocumented immigrants while managing President Trump’s tony Westchester County golf club, ex-employees say — and the New York attorney general is looking into the allegations, according to a source familiar with the matter. Dan Scavino, the White House social media director who helps the President craft his tweets, used to be the general manager of the Trump National Golf Club in Briarcliff Manor and supervised the upscale estate’s day-to-day operations — including the hiring of immigrants with fake employment papers, three former undocumented workers told the Daily News this week. . . .Scavino — like other managers — knew of their illegal status but looked the other way. “He was involved in the hiring,” Sedano said. “If they needed more people, he would always have to say yes because he was the general manager. Everything went up to him.” =========================== https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-pol-undocumented-trump-white-house-illegal-20190213-story.html We can't build the wall now. Where will Trump get his workers? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TriGirl 319 #93 February 15, 2019 1 hour ago, billvon said: Looks like the White House was aware that illegal aliens were working at Trump properties - and covered it up. ================================= We can't build the wall now. Where will Trump get his workers? Same way as before: when they come into the U.S. through regular points of entry! 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #94 February 15, 2019 3 hours ago, TriGirl said: Same way as before: when they come into the U.S. through regular points of entry! Hey, none of that! How is that going to get anyone to panic? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #95 February 15, 2019 12 hours ago, billvon said: "I pray" Trump signs the bill, said Sen. Richard Shelby, the Republican chairman of the Appropriations Committee. He said he spoke with Trump Wednesday night and the President was in "good spirits." I Thoughts and prayers from Republicans - it's what they do instead of taking real action: "Let's all pray that the President will have wisdom to sign the bill so the government doesn't shut down,":Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa. "I pray" Trump signs the bill: Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama, the top Republican on the conference committee that negotiated the compromise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,149 #96 February 15, 2019 2 hours ago, kallend said: Thoughts and prayers from Republicans - it's what they do instead of taking real action: "Let's all pray that the President will have wisdom to sign the bill so the government doesn't shut down,":Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa. "I pray" Trump signs the bill: Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama, the top Republican on the conference committee that negotiated the compromise. One quarter of registered voters, almost half of Republicans, believe God wanted Trump to win 2016 election "Almost half of registered Republican voters agree with White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders that God "wanted Donald Trump to become president," a new Fox News poll shows. Forty-five percent of Republicans agree with the sentiment—the Fox poll didn't mention Sanders by name, referring to a recent comment by a "White House spokesperson." That number represents a plurality, as 37 percent of Republicans disagree. " These voters were fooled by Lucifer(trump). All the GOP talk of praying. Is nothing less than GOP pandering to trump's base. While they parrot Lucifer's lies, feed at the trough and wallow in the swamp. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #97 February 15, 2019 So Trump lost to Pelosi, signed the bill anyway and then declared an emergency to get his money. What do Republicans think of this? “Zero chance you could spin this as a win for Republicans. Bluntly, it was a waste of three weeks.. . . total capitulation.” -Rep, Mark Meadows “We thought he was good to go all morning, and then suddenly it’s like everything is off the rails” - Republican aide "You’re watching Mitch McConnell eat a manure sandwich.” - Former GOP senator Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 362 #98 February 15, 2019 After that speech I really think people should be questioning whether the president has dementia. He spent the first six minutes rambling on about trade talks with China, then more minutes on trade with the UK, then he called his own border patrol and justice department liars for claiming that the great majority of drugs come through legal ports of entry. He spent several minutes lamenting the fact that we don't automatically execute anyone caught dealing drugs. He really seems to get a hard on about killing people. He went on and on repeating the lie about how building a wall cut violent crime in El Paso. Somewhere in all of that, he spent about three sentences to announce a declaration of a national emergency so he can build his wall. He said nothing about the sources of the money, how he is going to steal it from the military and hurricane relief. Now he is off for a long weekend of golf. If there really is a national emergency, then how in hell does he have time for golf? Even GW Bush didn't go golfing the day after 9/11. Don Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #99 February 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, GeorgiaDon said: After that speech I really think people should be questioning whether the president has dementia. He spent the first six minutes rambling on about trade talks with China, then more minutes on trade with the UK, then he called his own border patrol and justice department liars for claiming that the great majority of drugs come through legal ports of entry. He spent several minutes lamenting the fact that we don't automatically execute anyone caught dealing drugs. Ironically, he will grab his billions from funds intended for drug smuggling enforcement. Quote Now he is off for a long weekend of golf. If there really is a national emergency, then how in hell does he have time for golf? "President Obama has a major meeting on the N.Y.C. Ebola outbreak, with people flying in from all over the country, but decided to play golf!" "We pay for Obama's travel so he can fundraise millions so Democrats can run on lies. Then we pay for his golf." "Can you believe that,with all of the problems and difficulties facing the U.S., President Obama spent the day playing golf. Worse than Carter." "Obama's mind, IsIs, ebola, etc.... and then thinking, boy I wish I was on the golf coarse. What should I wear on the Links" "While our wonderful president was out playing golf all day, the TSA is falling apart, just like our government! Airports a total disaster!" "President Obama should have gone to Louisiana days ago, instead of golfing. Too little, too late!" "Obama has admitted that he spends his mornings watching @ESPN. Then he plays golf, fundraises & grants amnesty to illegals." "If I win I may never see my property -- I may never see these places again. But because I'm going to be working for you, I'm not going to have time to go golfing, believe me. Believe me. Believe me, folks." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #100 February 15, 2019 The goal is to get Trump's stupidest voters to say "HE'S FIGHTING!" No he's not. If he signs this bill, it's over. No, the goal of a national emergency is for Trump to scam the stupidest people in his base for 2 more years. -- Both Tweets from Ann Coulter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
