The shutdown (the thread)

[jakee 1,500]

ryoder

***

Quote

Almost all Brexit supporters hate it, and all EU supporters hate it.

But for completely different reasons. Britain has boxed itself into a corner. There is no good answer for her. Cameron's folly is to blame.

What I cannot fathom is why May is so adamant about not having a 2nd referendum.
I have no idea. I think that because she was a Remain supporter during the referendum, when she became PM she decided to legitimise herself in the eyes of Tory voters by becoming an adamant supporter of Brexit as 'the will of the British people'. Now she feels boxed in by two years of her own rhetoric and doesn't want to go back on her word because she knows she'd be finished.

Thing is though she's finished anyway, and no matter what the outcome her legacy will be to have presided over one of the most chaotic, shambolic periods in British political history. The question is whether she takes the country down with her out of sheer bloody mindedness

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,006]

>Speaking of party politics, what is the deal with a revote on Brexit? I thought that issue
>was settled by democratic vote.

It was a referendum, not a binding vote. And a lot of people are realizing what a big mistake they made, and that they were wrong to listen to the hucksters.

[ryoder 1,590]

jakee

Quote

What I cannot fathom is why May is so adamant about not having a 2nd referendum.

I have no idea. I think that because she was a Remain supporter during the referendum, when she became PM she decided to legitimise herself in the eyes of Tory voters by becoming an adamant supporter of Brexit as 'the will of the British people'. Now she feels boxed in by two years of her own rhetoric and doesn't want to go back on her word because she knows she'd be finished.

But the will of the people is something that changes over time. It is asinine that she insists that what the people were thinking at a snapshot in time two years ago, should take precedence over what they think now.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[gowlerk 2,216]

Quote

What I cannot fathom is why May is so adamant about not having a 2nd referendum.

Because it will tear the country apart? Because it is nearly evenly split and the result would likely be 48-52 to stay. And that is not high enough to get the people who want to leave to accept defeat.

She may very well prefer another vote, but she knows she can not be the one to push for it. It can only happen if it is somehow forced. It's a classic catch-22.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[jakee 1,500]

ryoder

But the will of the people is something that changes over time. It is asinine that she insists that what the people were thinking at a snapshot in time two years ago, should take precedence over what they think now.

If you want asinine, it's her and her cabinet's argument that a second referendum would be anti-democratic, or that it would break "the people's" trust in democracy.

Never been so close to throwing stuff at the TV

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,500]

gowlerk

Because it will tear the country apart?

Which didn't bother them at all the first time around. Seems a touch self serving to use it as an excuse now

Quote

Because it is nearly evenly split and the result would likely be 48-52 to stay. And that is not high enough to get the people who want to leave to accept defeat.

It was enough for them to claim victory. And frankly whatever the margin is (and I think it would be more than that) at least they'd be moaning while we move forward with more stability, security and economic success than we would if we plow ahead with Brexit regardless (even May's own governent says so).

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[yoink 321]

jakee

***Because it will tear the country apart?

Which didn't bother them at all the first time around. Seems a touch self serving to use it as an excuse now

Quote

Because it is nearly evenly split and the result would likely be 48-52 to stay. And that is not high enough to get the people who want to leave to accept defeat.

It was enough for them to claim victory. And frankly whatever the margin is (and I think it would be more than that) at least they'd be moaning while we move forward with more stability, security and economic success than we would if we plow ahead with Brexit regardless (even May's own governent says so).

My brother works for YouGov and their unofficial polls before Christmas suggest it’s closer to a 30-70 split in favor of staying now, but of course the government can’t request an official poll now lest it’s seen as a second referendum.... [Q]!

[RonD1120 62]

jakee

***Speaking of party politics, what is the deal with a revote on Brexit? I thought that issue was settled by democratic vote.

A non-binding vote, yes. And also a vote that was essentially taken blind, with many supporters of Brexit having a very idealistic view of what our relationship with the EU would be.

Now our government has had 2 years to negotiate the best possible exit deal with the EU, and everbody hates it. Almost all Brexit supporters hate it, and all EU supporters hate it. Even Parliament hates it, and are almost guaranteed to reject it. If that happens, the alternative is a no-deal Brexit, which (I believe) only the most ardent Brexit suporters would want to inflict in the nation.

So, now we know what the options are, that we either have a deal no-one likes or a no-deal that no-one expected, why would we not want to hold another vote that everyone goes into with their eyes open, before we take a final irreversible step?

Thank you for your reply.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[gowlerk 2,216]

People predicted the result would be stay. Polls predicted the result would be stay. I predicted the result would be stay. We were wrong. I am not predicting an outcome now. But a "hard exit" seems most likely. Followed by Scotland leaving to rejoin the EU and God knows what in Ireland.

Meanwhile, America only has to deal with Trump and his hissy fit of a shutdown. The subject of this thread.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[kallend 2,027]

billvon

And in the "pouring salt in their wounds" category, paychecks were mailed to all federal employees involved in the shutdown today. The amount of those checks - $0.00. Apparently sending out checks for zero money is a "critical function."

But Social Security continues to be paid, so Ron needn't worry, his socialist derived income continues.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[RonD1120 62]

kallend

***

And in the "pouring salt in their wounds" category, paychecks were mailed to all federal employees involved in the shutdown today. The amount of those checks - $0.00. Apparently sending out checks for zero money is a "critical function."

But Social Security continues to be paid, so Ron needn't worry, his socialist derived income continues.

The same is true for you. We earned our SS benefits and we both have investment income. I know you are not worried either.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kallend 2,027]

RonD1120

******

And in the "pouring salt in their wounds" category, paychecks were mailed to all federal employees involved in the shutdown today. The amount of those checks - $0.00. Apparently sending out checks for zero money is a "critical function."

But Social Security continues to be paid, so Ron needn't worry, his socialist derived income continues.

The same is true for you. We earned our SS benefits and we both have investment income. I know you are not worried either.

But only you whine incessantly about socialism. I am fully in favor of universal healthcare, SNAP, air traffic control, police and fire services, national parks, and other socialist entities.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[RonD1120 62]

kallend

*********

And in the "pouring salt in their wounds" category, paychecks were mailed to all federal employees involved in the shutdown today. The amount of those checks - $0.00. Apparently sending out checks for zero money is a "critical function."

But Social Security continues to be paid, so Ron needn't worry, his socialist derived income continues.

The same is true for you. We earned our SS benefits and we both have investment income. I know you are not worried either.

But only you whine incessantly about socialism. I am fully in favor of universal healthcare, SNAP, air traffic control, police and fire services, national parks, and other socialist entities.

I refer to those as social services. Socialism is the institution of power and control over all society. Socialism evolves into communism. Therefore, I believe we must thwart its expansion to keep America free.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

It looks as if Senator Cruz is attempting to give Chuck and Nancy a face-saving out.

https://www.oann.com/sen-cruz-democrats-forcing-partial-government-shutdown-to-appease-their-base/

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[gowlerk 2,216]

Quote

Socialism evolves into communism.

Do you have any examples of this? As far as I know all examples of communism have come from violent revolutions or invasions, not evolution. On the other hand some communist regimes have evolved into socialist/capitalist hybrids.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[gowlerk 2,216]

RonD1120

It looks as if Senator Cruz is attempting to give Chuck and Nancy a face-saving out.

https://www.oann.com/sen-cruz-democrats-forcing-partial-government-shutdown-to-appease-their-base/

That might have a chance of selling. If it wasn't for the fact that Trump could not get wall funding trough the House in the two years that the voters gave him control. No one is going to buy this except the partisans like you.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[jakee 1,500]

RonD1120

It looks as if Senator Cruz is attempting to give Chuck and Nancy a face-saving out.

https://www.oann.com/sen-cruz-democrats-forcing-partial-government-shutdown-to-appease-their-base/

"It’s important to note, Schumer and Pelosi’s objection to the wall is not subsitive,"

OANN, the Shakespeare of modern journalism.

By which I mean they're making up words to go with their made up 'news' site.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[christelsabine 1]

jakee

***It looks as if Senator Cruz is attempting to give Chuck and Nancy a face-saving out.

https://www.oann.com/sen-cruz-democrats-forcing-partial-government-shutdown-to-appease-their-base/

"It’s important to note, Schumer and Pelosi’s objection to the wall is not subsitive,"

OANN, the Shakespeare of modern journalism.

By which I mean they're making up words to go with their made up 'news' site.

What does *subsitive* mean??

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[billvon 3,006]

>I refer to those as social services. Socialism is the institution of power and control over all society

Socialism - a system whereby means of production, distribution, and exchange are regulated by the community as a whole, generally via government.

Socialist functions within the US:

The military
Social Security
Roads
Airports
Air traffic control
The FCC
Fire, police and rescue services
Medicaid and medicare

Which of those evil socialist services are you willing to give up?

[headoverheels 333]

RonD1120

I believe President Trump is maneuvering the Ds into the checkmate position. The wall is smoke and mirrors.

I agree, but it is he that will be checkmated.

[kallend 2,027]

RonD1120

************

And in the "pouring salt in their wounds" category, paychecks were mailed to all federal employees involved in the shutdown today. The amount of those checks - $0.00. Apparently sending out checks for zero money is a "critical function."

But Social Security continues to be paid, so Ron needn't worry, his socialist derived income continues.

The same is true for you. We earned our SS benefits and we both have investment income. I know you are not worried either.

But only you whine incessantly about socialism. I am fully in favor of universal healthcare, SNAP, air traffic control, police and fire services, national parks, and other socialist entities.

I refer to those as social services. Socialism is the institution of power and control over all society. Socialism evolves into communism. Therefore, I believe we must thwart its expansion to keep America free.

Who gave you the authority to redefine the English language?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[RonD1120 62]

kallend

***
I refer to those as social services. Socialism is the institution of power and control over all society. Socialism evolves into communism. Therefore, I believe we must thwart its expansion to keep America free.

Who gave you the authority to redefine the English language?

A friend of mine held an EdD and taught English at USF. She told me that English definitions and usage are constantly changing over time.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

billvon

>I refer to those as social services. Socialism is the institution of power and control over all society

Socialism - a system whereby means of production, distribution, and exchange are regulated by the community as a whole, generally via government.

Socialist functions within the US:

The military
Social Security
Roads
Airports
Air traffic control
The FCC
Fire, police and rescue services
Medicaid and medicare

Which of those evil socialist services are you willing to give up?

Maybe socialism is not the right term.

How do you define a government that seeks to diminish the protection of its citizens? How do you define a government that takes away your right to do business according to personal philosophy? How do you define a government that seeks to reduce your right to personal property ownership? How do you define a government that seeks to reduce your sense of security by giving the same rights to illegal invaders that you believe are in place for your own peace and welfare? How do you define a government that seeks to legislate for personal gain instead of the greater good? How do you define a government that sacrifices the most innocent of its population?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[gowlerk 2,216]

Quote

Maybe socialism is not the right term.

How do you define a government that seeks to diminish the protection of its citizens? How do you define a government that takes away your right to do business according to personal philosophy? How do you define a government that seeks to reduce your right to personal property ownership? How do you define a government that seeks to reduce your sense of security by giving the same rights to illegal invaders that you believe are in place for your own peace and welfare? How do you define a government that seeks to legislate for personal gain instead of the greater good? How do you define a government that sacrifices the most innocent of its population?

There is no term to describe such a government. Because there is no such government. This is just a list of your fears and of the right wing talking points that instilled them in you.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Phil1111 1,149]

RonD1120

******
I refer to those as social services. Socialism is the institution of power and control over all society. Socialism evolves into communism. Therefore, I believe we must thwart its expansion to keep America free.

Who gave you the authority to redefine the English language?

A friend of mine held an EdD and taught English at USF. She told me that English definitions and usage are constantly changing over time.

You're completely right about that. There has never been a compression of time and a redefinition of meaning of language. As whats occurred in the last three years. "Pussy grabbing", the redefinition of the integrity and moral values of Christians. The definition of what republicans stand and won't stand for.

Factcheck...v