Phil1111 1,149 #51 January 13, 2019 gowlerkQuoteSocialism evolves into communism. Do you have any examples of this? As far as I know all examples of communism have come from violent revolutions or invasions, not evolution. On the other hand some communist regimes have evolved into socialist/capitalist hybrids. Ron has a misguided view of capitalism and communism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #52 January 13, 2019 A template for anyone willing to reply: RonD1120 How do you define a government that seeks to diminish the protection of its citizens? QuoteHow do you define a government that takes away your right to do business according to personal philosophy? QuoteHow do you define a government that seeks to reduce your right to personal property ownership? Quote How do you define a government that seeks to reduce your sense of security by giving the same rights to illegal invaders that you believe are in place for your own peace and welfare? Quote How do you define a government that seeks to legislate for personal gain instead of the greater good? QuoteHow do you define a government that sacrifices the most innocent of its population? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #53 January 13, 2019 RonD1120 ****** I refer to those as social services. Socialism is the institution of power and control over all society. Socialism evolves into communism. Therefore, I believe we must thwart its expansion to keep America free. Who gave you the authority to redefine the English language? A friend of mine held an EdD Quote and taught English at USF. She told me that English definitions and usage are constantly changing over time. Evolution of language is not the same as RonD1120 using his own personal definition of a word, different from that which is currently accepted, in order to malign it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,216 #54 January 13, 2019 QuoteA friend of mine held an EdD and taught English at USF. She told me that English definitions and usage are constantly changing over time. Indeed, a good example is "Dotard".Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #55 January 13, 2019 QuoteHow do you define a government that seeks to diminish the protection of its citizens? How do you define a government that takes away your right to do business according to personal philosophy? How do you define a government that seeks to reduce your right to personal property ownership? How do you define a government that seeks to reduce your sense of security by giving the same rights to illegal invaders that you believe are in place for your own peace and welfare? How do you define a government that seeks to legislate for personal gain instead of the greater good? How do you define a government that sacrifices the most innocent of its population? For the most part, that would be a government run by an autocrat (like Trump or Putin) who seeks to impose his will on the people rather than using a more representative style of government. However, some more specific answers: QuoteHow do you define a government that takes away your right to do business according to personal philosophy? Given your oft-stated opposition to anything that is even close to Sharia Law - the sort of government you desire. QuoteHow do you define a government that seeks to reduce your sense of security by giving the same rights to illegal invaders that you believe are in place for your own peace and welfare? That is every government on the planet. No government can make you feel "a sense of security" - nor is it government's role to do so. QuoteHow do you define a government that seeks to legislate for personal gain instead of the greater good? Any government run by someone like Trump, a man who has a long history of sacrificing the greater good for his own personal gain. But to get back to the original question, which of those socialist functions would you cancel? All of them? Only the ones that don't benefit you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rifleman 70 #56 January 13, 2019 RonD1120***>I refer to those as social services. Socialism is the institution of power and control over all society Socialism - a system whereby means of production, distribution, and exchange are regulated by the community as a whole, generally via government. Socialist functions within the US: The military Social Security Roads Airports Air traffic control The FCC Fire, police and rescue services Medicaid and medicare Which of those evil socialist services are you willing to give up? Maybe socialism is not the right term. How do you define a government that seeks to diminish the protection of its citizens? How do you define a government that takes away your right to do business according to personal philosophy? How do you define a government that seeks to reduce your right to personal property ownership? How do you define a government that seeks to reduce your sense of security by giving the same rights to illegal invaders that you believe are in place for your own peace and welfare? How do you define a government that seeks to legislate for personal gain instead of the greater good? How do you define a government that sacrifices the most innocent of its population? A socialist government seeks to protect the majority of its citizens by ensuring that big business (Amazon, Starbucks etc.) pays its fair share for the social infrastructure that it uses. It employs people who have been educated at the public expense, it uses roads and airports paid for from the public purse and it enjoys the protection of law enforcement agencies, again, funded by the tax-paying public. Its employees have no choice but to pay taxes as they're deducted from the employee's pay check before it reaches the employee's bank account. Big companies utilise smoke and mirrors to move their profits around, in and out of tax havens, to avoid paying their fair share. At the same time these big companies refuse to pay their employees a living wage forcing many of them to claim for Social Security, Housing and Food Stamps, all while declaring record profits which are paid as dividends to their shareholders. Taxpayers are paying for those benefits which, while supporting low paid employees, are actually topping up the profits of those corporations. As a taxpayer, you're paying for Jeff Bezos to buy himself a new yacht and the US government will see only a fraction of the tax that he and Amazon should be paying. A socialist government tries to protect its citizens by ensuring that there is medical cover available to all members of the community, not just those who can afford it. It tries to ensure that people don't go bankrupt as a result of being sick or that someone with a treatable cancer doesn't choose to refuse treatment because they don't want to financially burden their family with the cost of that treatment. The situation is like this - Trump (the embodiment of big business), a taxpayer and an immigrant sit down at a table with 20 cookies on it. Trump snatches 19 of them then turns to the taxpayer and says, "watch out for the immigrant. He wants to steal your cookie." By focussing your attention on refugees, Muslims etc. Trump is diverting your attention from the fact that he and his tax avoiding friends are screwing the taxpayers for every penny that they can take. They're like Kaa the snake in Disney's Jungle Book, whispering "Trust in me!", hypnotising people into following them blindly off a cliff.Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #57 January 13, 2019 pchapmanA template for anyone willing to reply: *** How do you define a government that seeks to diminish the protection of its citizens? QuoteHow do you define a government that takes away your right to do business according to personal philosophy? QuoteHow do you define a government that seeks to reduce your right to personal property ownership? Quote How do you define a government that seeks to reduce your sense of security by giving the same rights to illegal invaders that you believe are in place for your own peace and welfare? Quote How do you define a government that seeks to legislate for personal gain instead of the greater good? QuoteHow do you define a government that sacrifices the most innocent of its population? The irony is that these all seem to fall into the Level 100 of ‘Fear’ level of consciousness measurements espoused by Ron in other threads. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #58 January 13, 2019 I will bypass your question because it does not address my concern. I feel your frustration. It is difficult to sell something that is adverse to personal convictions. Be that as it may, I regret to inform you that I will be absent for a period of time. My clan is gathering to focus on the needs of our tribe with the possible problems approaching. If the government shutdown is not corrected soon things are going to get tense.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #59 January 13, 2019 QuoteI will bypass your question because it does not address my concern. I thought as much. During your time preparing, perhaps ponder on why it worries you to try to answer that question. QuoteIf the government shutdown is not corrected soon things are going to get tense. Indeed. And things may not go well for the man who caused it and says he is proud to "own" it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #60 January 13, 2019 billvonQuoteI will bypass your question because it does not address my concern. I thought as much. During your time preparing, perhaps ponder on why it worries you to try to answer that question. ***If the government shutdown is not corrected soon things are going to get tense. Indeed. And things may not go well for the man who caused it and says he is proud to "own" it. Trump may be the one who owned it, but the Democrat non-compromising obstructionist for the ones who are causing it. And the polls indicate that the American people believe that too"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #61 January 13, 2019 >Trump may be the one who owned it, but the Democrat non-compromising >obstructionist for the ones who are causing it. So Trump is lying? Good to know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #62 January 13, 2019 rushmc***QuoteI will bypass your question because it does not address my concern. I thought as much. During your time preparing, perhaps ponder on why it worries you to try to answer that question. ***If the government shutdown is not corrected soon things are going to get tense. Indeed. And things may not go well for the man who caused it and says he is proud to "own" it. Trump may be the one who owned it, but the Democrat non-compromising obstructionist for the ones who are causing it. And the polls indicate that the American people believe that too Ummmm - are you reading Infowars again? No legitimate poll shows any such thing.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,372 #63 January 14, 2019 Hi John, QuoteNo legitimate poll shows any such thing. 'New polls indicate the American public is putting the brunt of the blame on Republicans.' https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/13/government-shutdown-republicans-trump-1098723 And once again rushmc shows that he knows nothing about the subjects he posts about. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyhays 86 #64 January 14, 2019 It's not just him. A couple people I know that are Trump supporters are saying the same thing. Must get their news from the same place.“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #65 January 14, 2019 Tuck tail and run from reality. I'm saddened by your misunderstanding of reality Ron. I cannot imagine nor understand the level of fear some people have. It's so damn false, it's rather laughable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,216 #66 January 14, 2019 That one third who love Trump? They believe they are actually two thirds. Because Trump told them to.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #67 January 14, 2019 My solution to the shutdown: end fast food deliveries to the White House for the duration of the shutdown. The government will be reopened within hours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #68 January 14, 2019 The White House hasn't paid it's water bill - water company should turn off the stop cock. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 362 #69 January 14, 2019 mr2mk1gThe White House hasn't paid it's water bill - water company should turn off the stop cock. billvonMy solution to the shutdown: end fast food deliveries to the White House for the duration of the shutdown. The government will be reopened within hours. Those are both probably better than mine which is no (unpaid) secret service protection for travel outside the white house, especially to play golf. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #70 January 14, 2019 The two sides were close to a settlement today - then Trump opened his mouth. From news.com.au: ============== Donald Trump slammed his new chief of staff Mick Mulvaney in front of Republican and Democratic congressional leaders during a tense meeting over the ongoing partial government shutdown. According to Axios, the encounter came near the end of a January 4 meeting in the White House, in which the US President reiterated his demand for a $5.7 billion wall. Mr Trump met with Democratic leaders and White House negotiators to push through a deal that would end the shutdown, which has become the longest in US history. Given Mr Trump wanted $5.7 billion and the Democrats were offering $1.3 billion, Mr Mulvaney said the two parties should try to find a figure somewhere in the middle. When the chief of staff suggested they reach a compromise, the President interrupted him. “Trump cut him off,” a source told Axios. “You just fucked it all up, Mick,” Mr Trump said in front of congressional leaders from both parties, according to the source. The source added the exchange was “kind of weird”. ================ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #71 January 14, 2019 Well, you have to remember that Trump-style 'negotiating' is pretty simple. He demands what he wants. He calls people names, flings insults and generally throws a temper tantrum until he gets it. The idea that he won't get all of what he wants, the idea the he might have to compromise, the idea that other people have any say in the outcome is simply beyond his capability to understand. Actual negotiation is not something he's even capable of. Iran, China, the TPP Agreement, all of those are fine examples of his behavior."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #72 January 14, 2019 Farmers have been getting hit hard by the shutdown. All those subsidies that Trump promised farmers to help them with their losses caused by his trade war aren't coming now. In addition, farm loans aren't being approved, and crop reports aren't being issued. Food safety inspections are being shut down. Jeff Witte of the National Association of State Departments of Agriculture: “This is real. You had farmers who were in the process of closing a loan or getting an operating loan. Now there’s nobody there to service those.” Agriculture secretary Sonny Perdue said this about their problems: "The shutdown needs to end, that's the real answer." Better tell your boss, Sonny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 806 #73 January 15, 2019 From a personal impact, PRO Demo jumps are not happening. Nobody to approve them. Not a real, serious, personal impact....just a general "God dammit". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #74 January 15, 2019 billvonFarmers have been getting hit hard by the shutdown. All those subsidies that Trump promised farmers to help them with their losses caused by his trade war aren't coming now. In addition, farm loans aren't being approved, and crop reports aren't being issued. Food safety inspections are being shut down. Jeff Witte of the National Association of State Departments of Agriculture: “This is real. You had farmers who were in the process of closing a loan or getting an operating loan. Now there’s nobody there to service those.” Agriculture secretary Sonny Perdue said this about their problems: "The shutdown needs to end, that's the real answer." Better tell your boss, Sonny. A longtime friend back in IN is on the verge of having his home foreclosed, but finally found a USDA program that would refinance his mortgage. Now it is all in limbo due to the shutdown."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #75 January 15, 2019 >Now it is all in limbo due to the shutdown. Bet you a beer that the process to refinance is in limbo but the process to foreclose is not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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