turbulance

[cdhezel 0]

Whats the theories on severe turbulance, I had a severe low alt canopy collapse (to low for the shit happens handle) Canopy colapsed, did a 150 degree right turn and went into a steep dive, was able to coach it out by working the risers but any advice would be appreciated

Greets
CD

When I go, I want to pass away in my sleep, just like my dear old Grandmother, NOT screaming like the passengers in the car she was driving.

[Stevehend15 0]

I just learned about this at a scott miller course. Turburlence caused by buildings or objects up wind. It doesnt take a huge object to cause turbulence hundreds of feet away. I think its something like the height of the object times ten is the size of the disturbence. So, a 30 foot building will create turbulence up to 300 feet. I may be way off but that is how I remember it.


Also, I think the best thing is to try and avoid it before the jump by knowing where turbulence may be and if you are in it all you can do is ride it out. Take whatever I say with a huge grain of salt and get some experienced guys to chime in also.

[NWFlyer 2]

Theories?

Can you be more clear as to whether you're looking for theories on what causes it or theories on what to do if you find yourself in it?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[cdhezel 0]

I know what causes turbulance, and in this case it was a mountain range. What I am seeking is input on what to do "when" your in it, (this turbualnce was very much a mountain x 10) to accentuate the problem I was flying downwind in an effort to get back to the (very small) DZ, was an exhibition jump and the pilot, nice guy but a dick when it comes to spotting.
Experts have so far said , half brakes, full gas, fly on risers .... my theory after the fact is fly carefully but continue to carve downwind to maintain as much lift pressure as poss, but then again I am still at the base of the learning curve!

When I go, I want to pass away in my sleep, just like my dear old Grandmother, NOT screaming like the passengers in the car she was driving.

[ChrisL 2]

Quote

I know what causes turbulance, and in this case it was a mountain range. What I am seeking is input on what to do "when" your in it, (this turbualnce was very much a mountain x 10) to accentuate the problem I was flying downwind in an effort to get back to the (very small) DZ, was an exhibition jump and the pilot, nice guy but a dick when it comes to spotting.

I'd say the best answer is dont put yourself in that position with only 130 jumps.

I wouldnt put myself in that circumstance...

__

My mighty steed

[bch7773 0]

I beleive PD said that the best recovery from turbulance is full flight.

and of course, the best way to avoid jumping in turbulent winds is not jumping in them

MB 3528, RB 1182

[cdhezel 0]

could stay on the ground and thats what I did after the turbulant ride, but all in all what I did worked, and if someone can tell me how to see turblance ...maybe I could fly around it too, come on guys, I am after info and input here not advise to stay on the ground, if you have no positive input then save the comments for someone who is impressed by your useless advise

When I go, I want to pass away in my sleep, just like my dear old Grandmother, NOT screaming like the passengers in the car she was driving.

[AFFI 0]

Quote

was an exhibition jump

?

[Stevehend15 0]

I think.... If you are in turbulence and you fly in partial brakes you are slowing the foward speed of the canopy. The reduction of wind into the nose causes the pressure in the cells to go down. With the lower pressure the canopy is more susecptable to turbulence. Try to avooid it before hand and if you are in it prepare to plf, hopefully you wont have to. Dont try to adjust for the little bumps but if the is a large change in heading react to it. Thats my 2 cents and I am a 30 jump wonder.

[cdhezel 0]

yeah but you ride a harley

When I go, I want to pass away in my sleep, just like my dear old Grandmother, NOT screaming like the passengers in the car she was driving.

[NWFlyer 2]

You could start with a search.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[ChrisL 2]

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yeah but you ride a harley

But I dont ride it in conditions I am not experienced enough to handle

You gave out some flak for people advising you to stay on the ground
and reality is that staying on the ground it the best way to handle the situation you found yourself in.

Based on your description of the location and circumstances and your jump numbers (if that number is accurate), it sounds to me like you should not have been jumping.

Its not meant to be smart-ass. Its good advice.

__

My mighty steed

[AFFI 0]

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Based on your description of the location and circumstances and your jump numbers (if that number is accurate), it sounds to me like you should not have been jumping.

Its not meant to be smart-ass. Its good advice

Agree 100%.

[rehmwa 2]

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was an exhibition jump and the pilot, nice guy but a dick when it comes to spotting.

This statement just jumped out at me in terms of skydive 101 - who is responsible for the spot?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[BigSky 2]

This is a good article



http://www.dropzone.com/content/Detailed/619.html

“Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, th

[bch7773 0]

Quote

could stay on the ground and thats what I did after the turbulant ride, but all in all what I did worked, and if someone can tell me how to see turblance ...maybe I could fly around it too, come on guys, I am after info and input here not advise to stay on the ground, if you have no positive input then save the comments for someone who is impressed by your useless advise

and see thats why I said
"""I believe PD said that the best recovery from turbulance is full flight. """"

and its not useless advice its the truth. Staying on the ground in turbulent days is how you would avoid turbulance. that simple!

oh and if you don't want people giving you "useless advice" try a search before asking a question.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[rehmwa 2]

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I believe PD said that the best recovery from turbulance is full flight.

an easy search of the other threads, I believe another, extremely well regarded canopy instructor says the same - keep the airfoil pressurized, that means it has to keep moving.

I think the old partial breaks applies to a much older generation of canopies, those old 5 and seven cells you'd partial brake to open the nose up. It was certainly way I kept those outside cells inflated on the old Pegasus...... I doubt it applies to today's canopies. But I'm not certain and maybe someone with a bit more experience here would comment.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Cloudi 0]

Here's another really informative article on turbulence:

http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/Turbulence-Hazard.pdf

As you gain more experience, you will learn that there are several situations where staying on the ground is the best choice, even when you really want to jump. If you do find yourself in the air when you should have stayed on the ground, having the tools to deal with the situation could save your life, so keep asking questions.

Kim
Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

[billvon 3,049]

>Whats the theories on severe turbulance

1) Avoid it. To do that you have to learn what causes it. Many things do, including high winds, upwind obstacles, thermals, dust devils, certain kinds of weather and certain sorts of topography. Some resources:

Dennis Pagen's book, Understanding the Sky

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=458267

2) If the canopy is still flying OK, just bumping around, full flight is generally the best brake position to fly in. Keeping a little tension on the brakes will help you feel what the canopy is doing.

3) If the canopy is actually collaped (not just waffling, but folding under itself or deflated) then half brakes will help it reinflate. Basically put the brakes in the position they are in during opening; that's how the canopy was designed to open in the first place.

[waltappel 1]

What canopy are you jumping and what is the wing loading?

I've never gone beyond a wingloading of about 1.5 and am currently jumping at less than 1.2, so my comments are assuming a moderate wing loading.

When your canopy starts rockin', my advice is to *immediately* put on some brakes. Quarter brakes or a little more. If you have the altitude, keep glancing at your canopy and watch for "breathing". You may need to go to deeper brakes if you see it.

Some canopies are outstanding with cell pressurization and handle turbulence quite well. My Triathlon handles turbulence beautifully. Other canopies may not be as good. Unfortunately, the only way you'll really know is to experience it.

If you are near the ground and get heavy turbulence, get ready to PLF and *don't* get hung up on being faced exactly into the wind when you land--the priority is to have a good canopy over your head and minimize your rate of descent when you land.

As far as "flying carefully" goes, I'm not sure what you mean but if you are saying no radical maneuvers, I'm with you 100% on that if you are anywhere near the ground. That's pretty much the rule on exhibition jumps anyway no matter what your altitude is.

Referring to another post, being downwind of wind-deflecting objects is not the only thing that can cause turbulence, but it's damn sure a big one. In hotter climates, thermals can cause some really nasty bumpiness. I was on a load recently where one jumper's canopy momentarily collapsed at about three grand. It was a seriously bumpy day for sure. We get thermals a lot in Texas during the summer.

BTW, turbulence down low can give you some serious lateral push. It's best to not land anywhere near anything you don't want to hit in those conditions.

Walt

[caspar 0]

i always assumed that if the canopy was about to collapse plunging on the front risers would be the best thing, get that canopy to scoop up some air.

i have been in turbulence and never did anything of the sort but i just though if you are up high and it collapses that would make the most sense.

"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading."

[AFFI 0]

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i always assumed that if the canopy was about to collapse plunging on the front risers would be the best thing, get that canopy to scoop up some air.

i have been in turbulence and never did anything of the sort but i just though if you are up high and it collapses that would make the most sense.

What would make the most sense is to follow the advice of those who have lots of experience with canopy piloting and the reccomendations found in the links others have provided.

You raise an interesting point though, I am eager to read what the pro's and con's to front riser input is from from others because I dont know what they are.

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[billvon 3,049]

>i always assumed that if the canopy was about to collapse plunging
>on the front risers would be the best thing . . .

Yikes! Moving the stagnation point above the canopy is what _causes_ many collapses; pulling on the front risers can hasten that. Think about it this way - if you could pull so far down on the A lines that the air is hitting the top of the front of the canopy, the canopy will collapse instantly.

[AFFI 0]

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Yikes! Moving the stagnation point above the canopy is what _causes_ many collapses; pulling on the front risers can hasten that. Think about it this way - if you could pull so far down on the A lines that the air is hitting the top of the front of the canopy, the canopy will collapse instantly.

Now thats what I'm talking about!

[riggerrob 643]

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>i always assumed that if the canopy was about to collapse plunging
>on the front risers would be the best thing . . .

Yikes! Moving the stagnation point above the canopy is what _causes_ many collapses; pulling on the front risers can hasten that. Think about it this way - if you could pull so far down on the A lines that the air is hitting the top of the front of the canopy, the canopy will collapse instantly.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Agreed!
Pulling on front risers was the worst thing I could do with my old Nova, because it was already trimmed pretty steep nose down. Pulling on front risers just exposed the top skin to the relative wind. This made for some very exciting "tuck-unders."