richravizza 28 #851 May 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, DJL said: Oh...sorry again. So what are we doing here just saying that wind farms are bad in comparison to nothing. No, I think the Physicist is triing to explain that there's no free Lunch when it comes to energy,Like the tailing ponds of coal plants this is the huge environmental price we pay, for fanaticism and haste in the face of Fear. Most likely, exactly where you wont see it.In some third word nation where the quality of life is pure Hell. Bernies' State, Ultra Liberal Vermont just went Backwards.Closing a nuke power plant ramping up CO2 emitions and riasing prices. How Progressive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #852 May 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, brenthutch said: Ted talk I try to steer clear of those as they're typically no better than mental masturbation. Maybe later. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #853 May 16, 2019 1 minute ago, richravizza said: Bernies' State, Ultra Liberal Vermont just went Backwards.Closing a nuke power plant ramping up CO2 emitions and riasing prices. How Progressive. I used to live right next to that plant. What's your question? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #854 May 16, 2019 9 hours ago, billvon said: If the right wing weren't afraid of her, there wouldn't be long threads of right wingers attacking her, hours and hours of programming on FOX News trying to discredit her, and right wing talking heads spending entire radio shows attacking her ideas. Or maybe she just makes an easy target to attack democrats and liberal ideology, much like Trump makes an easy target to attack republicans and conservative ideology. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
richravizza 28 #855 May 16, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, DJL said: I used to live right next to that plant. What's your question? There was no question.Its a fact, a Statement.Your Progessive state is so progessive its Regessive,That was my point.I lived in W.Germany during Chernobyl so whats up with that?do you have a question. Edited May 16, 2019 by richravizza Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #856 May 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, richravizza said: There was no question.Its a fact, a Statement. I lived in W.Germany during Chernobyl what the Question? You're questioning why the plant was shut down. The answer is that it was an old piece of shit from a 1960's design, had been scheduled for decommissioning, the state blocked a continuance of its license and it was already losing money. It was necessary for power production BUT rather than fight the case Entergy and the State decided to draw energy from NY and Canada for the grid. So my statement is that you know nothing about VT Yankee and your accusation that the Bernie Bros chose dirty energy over nuke falls flats. It was a needed change even if for a short term loss. VT as of 2017 ranks #2 for renewable energy paired with a 50% reduction in use of oil and natural gas. Edited May 16, 2019 by DJL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #857 May 16, 2019 7 hours ago, richravizza said: Run with that, Most of America knows she's a hypocrite,she lives in one of the best cities of America to take mass transit. What does she do? Take a subway, Take a train to D.C.? a Bus to her office? Video conference? Oh no. Good choice on her part. With all the hate being thrown at her by Trump supporters, she'd be attacked regularly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #858 May 16, 2019 3 hours ago, brenthutch said: Watch the video before you opine. He addressed that very issue. My favorite quote, “cats don’t eat eagles, eagles eat cats.” Wind turbines kill 140,000 to 328,000 birds a year. Nuclear power plants kill ~ 330,000 birds a year. More than wind. Fossil fuel power plants kill ~ 14 million. 60 times more than wind. Domestic cats kill between 1.4 and 3.7 BILLION birds a year. Over ten thousand times more. Want to make a difference in bird kills? Shut down fossil fuel plants and switch to wind. 60x improvement. Want to make a BIG difference? Pass laws that keep cats inside. TEN THOUSAND fold improvement. Don't really give a shit and just hate renewables? Make a Youtube video and post it. Quote BTW it is NOT a denier video. At no time does he even question AGW. Of course it is. The first video is from Friends Against Wind. And on their website is this lovely article: "How renewables and the global warming industry are literally Hitler." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #859 May 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Coreece said: Or maybe she just makes an easy target to attack democrats and liberal ideology, much like Trump makes an easy target to attack republicans and conservative ideology. Good point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #860 May 16, 2019 2 hours ago, richravizza said: No, I think the Physicist is triing to explain that there's no free Lunch when it comes to energy That's exactly right. Wind isn't perfect. It is merely much, much better than coal. Quote Most likely, exactly where you wont see it.In some third word nation where the quality of life is pure Hell. Exactly. The solution, like they mention in the video, is to source those materials from countries with higher safety and environmental standards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #861 May 16, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, billvon said: 17 minutes ago, billvon said: Of course it is. The first video is from Friends Against Wind. And on their website is this lovely article: "How renewables and the global warming industry are literally Hitler." Did you even watch the TED talk? Pay attention to the last two minutes. It is possible to believe in AGW and be against large scale wind and solar. Have you ever heard of nuclear power? Edited May 16, 2019 by brenthutch 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #862 May 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, billvon said: Of course it is. The first video is from Friends Against Wind. And on their website is this lovely article: "How renewables and the global warming industry are literally Hitler." Come now, billvon, that sounds like good centrist material. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #863 May 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, brenthutch said: Did you even watch the TED talk? Pay attention to the last two minutes. It is possible to believe in AGW and be against large scale wind and solar. Have you ever heard of nuclear power? Yes. Let me post the title of that Friends against Wind article again. This time I will highlight the part you missed: "How renewables and the global warming industry are literally Hitler." Nuclear power is great. It's also the most expensive form of power we have, and has the longest lead time. So I say go for it - but just be willing to pay far more for power. And in the meantime we will need renewables. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #864 May 16, 2019 14 minutes ago, brenthutch said: Did you even watch the TED talk? Pay attention to the last two minutes. It is possible to believe in AGW and be against large scale wind and solar. Have you ever heard of nuclear power? He's a single issue horse. I'm happy to hitch a wagon to him in the interest of growing the nuke sector but he very much makes his money purely by lobbying for the nuke industry. We need a variety of energy sources and each have inherent downsides. Nuke energy does not inherently eliminate environmental impacts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #865 May 16, 2019 Not nearly as much as we need fossil fuels Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #866 May 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, brenthutch said: Not nearly as much as we need fossil fuels Yep. Think about how much it will suck when we run out without alternatives ready to go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #867 May 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, billvon said: Yes. Let me post the title of that Friends against Wind article again. This time I will highlight the part you missed: "How renewables and the global warming industry are literally Hitler." Nuclear power is great. It's also the most expensive form of power we have, and has the longest lead time. So I say go for it - but just be willing to pay far more for power. And in the meantime we will need renewables. Germany chose wind and solar France chose Nuclear who has the cheapest energy? France! Case closed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #868 May 16, 2019 Just now, brenthutch said: Germany chose wind and solar France chose Nuclear who has the cheapest energy? France! Case closed Lazard study, 2018, $/MWHR for new generation: Nuclear $112-189 Gas combined cycle $41-$74 Onshore wind $29-56 Utility scale solar $36-44 Case closed. However, I support your right to pay more for nuclear power. It's your money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #869 May 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, billvon said: Lazard study, 2018, $/MWHR for new generation: Nuclear $112-189 Gas combined cycle $41-$74 Onshore wind $29-56 Utility scale solar $36-44 Case closed. However, I support your right to pay more for nuclear power. It's your money. Funny how that doesn’t translate into the real world, besides I will keep my $22 MWHR natural gas for the next hundred years Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #870 May 16, 2019 30 minutes ago, billvon said: Yes. Let me post the title of that Friends against Wind article again. This time I will highlight the part you missed: "How renewables and the global warming industry are literally Hitler." s. I am shocked, SHOCKED! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #871 May 16, 2019 1 minute ago, brenthutch said: Funny how that doesn’t translate into the real world, besides I will keep my $22 MWHR natural gas for the next hundred years And I'll keep my free solar. We'll see who spends more in the long run. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #872 May 16, 2019 31 minutes ago, brenthutch said: who has the cheapest energy? Can you define that term "cheapest energy"? Are you basing it on the rate paid by the end user? Are you adjusting for subsidies? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #873 May 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: Can you define that term "cheapest energy"? Are you basing it on the rate paid by the end user? Are you adjusting for subsidies? https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2018/09/frances-nuclear-clean-energy-is-over-three-times-faster-and-cheaper-than-germanys-solar-and-wind.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #874 May 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, brenthutch said: https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2018/09/frances-nuclear-clean-energy-is-over-three-times-faster-and-cheaper-than-germanys-solar-and-wind.html Great. You know that Germany simply doesn't want nuke energy, right? They made that choice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #875 May 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, DJL said: Great. You know that Germany simply doesn't want nuke energy, right? They made that choice. Choices have consequences. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
