wmw999 2,444 #151 April 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, brenthutch said: America did not become America by copying Norway. America became America by copying the best of what it sees, and improving it when we can. Wendy P. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #152 April 5, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, kallend said: 21 hours ago, Coreece said: purely electric vehicle are rewarded with a string of incentives worth thousands of pounds. tax incentives are seen as being expensive and ultimately unsustainable." I came to the USA at a time when Americans didn't throw up their hands and whine "we can't do what other countries can do". I came because the USA did what other countries couldn't do, and I wanted to be part of it. When did Americans become such a bunch of whining quitters? Ok, so in addition to the thousands of dollars of incentives given to wealthy people to buy a second car with no taxes, no road tolls, free parking, bus lane privileges, etc., I suppose the next step could be for the U.S to just give away 200 million electric cars just to one-up Norway in the EV race, that'll show them! What could possibly go wrong! Edited April 5, 2019 by Coreece typo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #153 April 5, 2019 The USA became the USA by taking the best of what other countries did, and improving it, doing it faster, doing it cheaper. . . . . Now people like you are preaching stagnation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #154 April 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, kallend said: The USA became the USA by taking the best of what other countries did, and improving it All Noway did was give more perks to rich people just so they would buy a second car. 8 minutes ago, kallend said: doing it faster, doing it cheaper. . . . . Again, Noway - 5 million people. U.S - 300 million people. Your comparison is stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #155 April 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Coreece said: All Noway did was give more perks to rich people just so they would buy a second car. Again, Noway - 5 million people. U.S - 300 million people. Your comparison is stupid. Your lack of imagination is pathetic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #156 April 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, kallend said: 5 minutes ago, Coreece said: All Noway did was give more perks to rich people just so they would buy a second car. Again, Noway - 5 million people. U.S - 300 million people. Your comparison is stupid. Your lack of imagination is pathetic. As apposed to your magical thinking? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #157 April 5, 2019 3 hours ago, kallend said: The USA became the USA by taking the best of what other countries did, and improving it, doing it faster, doing it cheaper. . . . . Now people like you are preaching stagnation. No, I love innovation. In 2018 the USA, with its tax cuts and deregulation led the world in innovation with 55,981 international patents. Norway, who you would like us to emulate, didn't even make the top ten. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #158 April 5, 2019 38 minutes ago, brenthutch said: No, I love innovation. In 2018 the USA, with its tax cuts and deregulation led the world in innovation with 55,981 international patents. Norway, who you would like us to emulate, didn't even make the top ten. That deregulation also led to some plane crashes. The Tax cuts made rich people richer and didn't do much else. But, thankfully you are getting patents. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #159 April 5, 2019 24 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: The Tax cuts made rich people richer and didn't do much else. Oh, please. It did a lot more than that. It made for hyooooooge deficits and national debt in a few years. But since 'he won't be around for that', Trump doesn't care. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #160 April 5, 2019 1 hour ago, brenthutch said: No, I love innovation. In 2018 the USA, with its tax cuts and deregulation led the world in innovation with 55,981 international patents. Norway, who you would like us to emulate, didn't even make the top ten. Good lord, a country with hundreds of millions of people invented more things than a country with a few million people. I never would have guessed that if you hadn't told us. I am stunned, speechless, shocked and awed that it is the case. How is such a wondrous achievement even possible? I am now fully prepared to buy into your entire argument. One quick question though, did the US also lead the world in international patents before the current round of tax cuts and deregulation? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #161 April 5, 2019 20 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said: Oh, please. It did a lot more than that. It made for hyooooooge deficits and national debt in a few years. But since 'he won't be around for that', Trump doesn't care. Oh absolutely. I was focusing on the positive side of a tax cut: some people are going to have more money. Downside is the country will have less money. Unless you believe in "judo math" at which point reductions in revenue lead to increases in revenue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #162 April 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, jakee said: Good lord, a country with hundreds of millions of people invented more things than a country with a few million people. I never would have guessed that if you hadn't told us. I am stunned, speechless, shocked and awed that it is the case. How is such a wondrous achievement even possible? I am now fully prepared to buy into your entire argument. One quick question though, did the US also lead the world in international patents before the current round of tax cuts and deregulation? If population and government intervention was the driving force behind innovation, China would have kicked our butts. Anyway my point was to disprove the notion that just because the US has failed to embrace electric cars doesn't mean we are stagnating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #163 April 5, 2019 1 hour ago, brenthutch said: If population and government intervention was the driving force behind innovation, China would have kicked our butts. Yep - thats pretty much the way it's going. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,190 #164 April 5, 2019 1 hour ago, brenthutch said: Anyway my point was to disprove the notion that just because the US has failed to embrace electric cars doesn't mean we are stagnating. Correct, America not stagnating, and incorrect, America is embracing electric cars. Just not as quickly as Norway. All major American manufacturers are investing in electric tech because they can see the writing on the wall. Even without Norway level subsidies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #165 April 5, 2019 2 hours ago, brenthutch said: If population and government intervention was the driving force behind innovation, China would have kicked our butts. Anyway my point was to disprove the notion that just because the US has failed to embrace electric cars doesn't mean we are stagnating. They are kicking our butts. We are _barely_ leading in 5G, for example, but Huawei - with the full support of the Chinese government - is very close behind. They have the skills, the people, the dedication to education and the governmental backing they need to succeed. They will lead on the next communications standard if we don't do anything about it. The US is embracing EV's - every major US automotive company is gearing up for them, and sales are increasing rapidly. I was just at a battery show, and there are literally hundreds of manufacturers lining up to make the cases, electrodes, separators, electrolyte and coatings that are going to be required to make the battery cells. US mining companies are already adjusting their strategies to capture the billions in raw materials that will be required. Worried about stagnation? Then work to stop the attacks on the "ivory tower elite", the universities and education in general. Those are the people and institutions that will keep us from stagnating. In China, almost every engineer has a PhD - and they are proud of it. And their fellow countrymen don't attack them for it, either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #166 April 5, 2019 I just have one thing to say about Americans embrace of electric cars....1.74%. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #167 April 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, brenthutch said: I just have one thing to say about Americans embrace of electric cars....1.74%. With a 50% increase per year. Which is why all those companies want a piece of that very big pie. (BTW your numbers are old. Now it's 2.1%.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #168 April 5, 2019 27 minutes ago, billvon said: With a 50% increase per year. Which is why all those companies want a piece of that very big pie. (BTW your numbers are old. Now it's 2.1%.) Wow! I stand corrected, now that is a number that fundamentally changes everything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #169 April 5, 2019 We saw what happened 40 years ago when US car manufacturers stagnated in their thinking while Japanese and Europeans embraced quality control, rust proofing, etc. Ditto with the TV industry - once the US was the world leader, but where can you buy a Zenith now? Brenthutch and Coreece fail to learn the lessons of history, and we know what that leads to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,190 #170 April 5, 2019 37 minutes ago, brenthutch said: Wow! I stand corrected, now that is a number that fundamentally changes everything. You seem to have a hard time with comprehending math and the rate of increase and it's long term effects. Maybe you've heard of the magic of compound interest? It's a little like that. Fundamental change is occurring and smart capitalists are pouring into the future. But don't worry too much. At your age there should still be room for a few dinosaurs like us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #171 April 5, 2019 The snark on my part was uncalled for, sorry. Seriously, I will be in line to buy an EV as soon as they are as inexpensive, reliable, versatile and fun as conventionality powered vehicles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,190 #172 April 5, 2019 Just now, brenthutch said: The snark on my part was uncalled for, sorry. Seriously, I will be in line to buy an EV as soon as they are as inexpensive, reliable, versatile and fun as conventionality powered vehicles. I'm guessing a Tesla is already quite fun. The acceleration is said to be pretty fantastic. But I'm with you on cost. And where I live I can't imagine an EV having enough energy to keep the cabin warm in winter for long. Internal combustion engines have all that wonderful waste heat to use. My guess is that I personally will never own an EV. I'm 61 now, so I could be wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #173 April 6, 2019 16 minutes ago, gowlerk said: You seem to have a hard time with comprehending math and the rate of increase and it's long term effects. Maybe you've heard of the magic of compound interest? It's a little like that. Fundamental change is occurring and smart capitalists are pouring into the future. But don't worry too much. At your age there should still be room for a few dinosaurs like us. According to your logic, the advances in aviation in the 40s and 50s would have lead to rutine 737 trips to the moon by now. Not all progress can be extrapolated ad infinitum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,190 #174 April 6, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, brenthutch said: According to your logic, the advances in aviation in the 40s and 50s would have lead to rutine 737 trips to the moon by now. Not all progress can be extrapolated ad infinitum. No, just to a level of market saturation. Like aviation. Take the train anywhere lately? Edited April 6, 2019 by gowlerk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #175 April 6, 2019 2 hours ago, kallend said: Brenthutch and Coreece fail to learn the lessons of history My beef isn't with history lessons or EVs, it's about your stupid comparison to Norway and turning everything into a damn pissing contest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
