Stupid firearm accident thread

[gowlerk 2,193]

14 minutes ago, billeisele said:

If restrictive gun laws were passed the criminals will ignore them. That leaves everyone fully exposed when in public. 

That is not the case in the rest of the world. But perhaps in the US it would be. In Canada we do suffer from some criminal gangs who have easy access to smuggled weapons. But in general the police here do not have to assume everyone they deal with is armed. But it doesn't really matter. Even if you carry your weapon around with you it is unlikely to be in your hand when you need it if one of those criminals shoots you.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

1 hour ago, billeisele said:

A huge concern is self-protection at home or in public. If restrictive gun laws were passed the criminals will ignore them. That leaves everyone fully exposed when in public.

Having lived in various places around the world, I have never wished I had a gun to be safe to go grocery shopping.

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

58 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Having lived in various places around the world, I have never wished I had a gun to be safe to go grocery shopping.

Hi Sky,

I have travelled in Europe, Asia, South America , Australia & a lot of North America.  Not once have I been concerned that I should have a gun for protection.

IMO it is just a scare tactic to sell more guns to the misinformed.

Jerry Baumchen

[ryoder 1,590]

2 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

Having lived in various places around the world, I have never wished I had a gun to be safe to go grocery shopping.

You have obviously never shopped at US Walmart on Black Friday. 

[Phil1111 1,149]

36 minutes ago, ryoder said:

You have obviously never shopped at US Walmart on Black Friday. 

What you think the whole world doesn't know?

[billeisele 130]

5 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

Having lived in various places around the world, I have never wished I had a gun to be safe to go grocery shopping.

You asked for clarification on what was said, and it was provided. Your response was a silly reply about grocery shopping. I guess that if all one does in life is grocery shopping they should be OK. Some folks live a broader life than that which exposes them to more risk.

I'm glad you've been lucky enough to never have had the need for self protection or the protection of your family. Also hope that your luck continues. My experience has been different than yours and prefer to be prepared rather than rely on luck.

[JerryBaumchen 1,363]

4 minutes ago, billeisele said:

You asked for clarification on what was said, and it was provided. Your response was a silly reply about grocery shopping. I guess that if all one does in life is grocery shopping they should be OK. Some folks live a broader life than that which exposes them to more risk.

I'm glad you've been lucky enough to never have had the need for self protection or the protection of your family. Also hope that your luck continues. My experience has been different than yours and prefer to be prepared rather than rely on luck.

Hi Bill,

Re:  'My experience has been different than yours . . .'

Just curious; have you ever been in a situation where your gun was actually needed to keep you safe?

Jerry Baumchen

[billeisele 130]

8 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Bill,

Re:  'My experience has been different than yours . . .'

Just curious; have you ever been in a situation where your gun was actually needed to keep you safe?

Jerry Baumchen

Yes. And have a skydiver friend that was a victim of armed robbery by three known felons. In every other incident they killed the victim. He was armed, trained and prepared, and defended himself. One dead, one permanently crippled, one never found. He was shot twice but fully recovered.

[wmw999 2,447]

Many people I know that carry regularly feel they have needed their gun at some time. No one I know that doesn't carry regularly has ever regretted not having one. The only people I knew (relatively) personally who have been killed by violence were killed by employees; a gun likely wouldn't have helped, because one doesn't usually suspect employees.

Wendy P.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

22 hours ago, billeisele said:

Some folks live a broader life than that which exposes them to more risk.

Spend a fair bit of time in Vancouver’s DTES and BC’s back country. Yet still never felt I needed a gun. 
 

 

[billvon 2,991]

56 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Spend a fair bit of time in Vancouver’s DTES and BC’s back country. Yet still never felt I needed a gun. 
 

That must be because you are living a narrower life than Bill E, and just don't have his more informed perspective.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

16 hours ago, billeisele said:

Yes. And have a skydiver friend that was a victim of armed robbery by three known felons. In every other incident they killed the victim. He was armed, trained and prepared, and defended himself. One dead, one permanently crippled, one never found. He was shot twice but fully recovered.

So have I. House break in while I was sleeping. Managed the situation with a .300 Savage that was not loaded when I took it off of the wall. No clue if I could have done the same with a ping pong paddle.

[billeisele 130]

Ran across something today that I wasn't aware of. Was at the range and had a chance to fire a nice AR build shooting .223 with an optical. Great feel, balance, etc., designed for in-the-house protection, i.e. close attack. The owner is on a SWAT team and he's accustomed to these type firearms.

The owner installed a binary trigger. Never heard of that. When the selector switch on the firearm is set to "auto" the trigger fires when pulled (just like any other trigger) but then it fires when the trigger is released. That's not full auto but I ran thru a 30-rd mag in just a few seconds. 

For an AR platform they cost $400+ so aren't cheap. For a .22 they are in the $300 range. That will help keep it out of the hands of some people but......

Like bump stocks, this is something that I don't think should be available without additional permitting. Scary stuff.

Franklin Armory® BFSIII™ Binary Triggers - YouTube

 

 

[Phil1111 1,149]

25 minutes ago, billeisele said:

Ran across something today that I wasn't aware of. Was at the range and had a chance to fire a nice AR build shooting .223 with an optical. Great feel, balance, etc., designed for in-the-house protection, i.e. close attack. The owner is on a SWAT team and he's accustomed to these type firearms.

The owner installed a binary trigger. Never heard of that. When the selector switch on the firearm is set to "auto" the trigger fires when pulled (just like any other trigger) but then it fires when the trigger is released. That's not full auto but I ran thru a 30-rd mag in just a few seconds. 

For an AR platform they cost $400+ so aren't cheap. For a .22 they are in the $300 range. That will help keep it out of the hands of some people but......

Like bump stocks, this is something that I don't think should be available without additional permitting. Scary stuff.

Franklin Armory® BFSIII™ Binary Triggers - YouTube

 

 

"designed for in-the-house protection, i.e. close attack" firing 5.56 at 3200 f.p.s. you'll be able to empty a 30 rounder in 4-5 seconds. Better get the drum magazine. Home defense in America. The industry has a answer for every need.

'The National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. 5845(b), defines a machine gun to include any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.'

The ATF however has ruled that these triggers don't make them machine guns. Makes perfect sense for America.

Edited December 25, 2020 by Phil1111

[JoeWeber 2,720]

3 minutes ago, billeisele said:

Ran across something today that I wasn't aware of. Was at the range and had a chance to fire a nice AR build shooting .223 with an optical. Great feel, balance, etc., designed for in-the-house protection, i.e. close attack. The owner is on a SWAT team and he's accustomed to these type firearms.

The owner installed a binary trigger. Never heard of that. When the selector switch on the firearm is set to "auto" the trigger fires when pulled (just like any other trigger) but then it fires when the trigger is released. That's not full auto but I ran thru a 30-rd mag in just a few seconds. 

For an AR platform they cost $400+ so aren't cheap. For a .22 they are in the $300 range. That will help keep it out of the hands of some people but......

Like bump stocks, this is something that I don't think should be available without additional permitting. Scary stuff.

Franklin Armory® BFSIII™ Binary Triggers - YouTube

 

 

I must say that 400 bucks for a rifle is actually cheap. If you are serving SWAT you might be used to them but on the job you'll have a full auto M-16. At home all you need is a shotgun or similar. So, like bump stocks I think those sorts of things should be a no go. I don't know, maybe kept securely on a qualified range or something for novelty but otherwise where is the need? 

[gowlerk 2,193]

36 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

I don't know, maybe kept securely on a qualified range or something for novelty but otherwise where is the need? 

Mass shootings into crowds from over looking windows. Needed to increase the casualty count. Because every mass killer wants to be famous for setting new records.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Mass shootings into crowds from over looking windows. Needed to increase the casualty count. Because every mass killer wants to be famous for setting new records.

If full auto isn't legal across the counter, and it should never be, then any clever work around should also be illegal and subject to severe penalties. Just because it's fun and has yet to cause a problem somewhere else are not  good reasons. 

[gowlerk 2,193]

4 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

If full auto isn't legal across the counter, and it should never be, then any clever work around should also be illegal and subject to severe penalties. Just because it's fun and has yet to cause a problem somewhere else are not  good reasons. 

The best defense against a bad guy with a fully auto weapon is a good guy with a bigger fully auto weapon. And hell, fun is important.

ETA, If having fully auto weapons is a crime then only criminals will have fully auto weapons. 

Edited December 25, 2020 by gowlerk

[billvon 2,991]

4 hours ago, billeisele said:

The owner installed a binary trigger. Never heard of that. When the selector switch on the firearm is set to "auto" the trigger fires when pulled (just like any other trigger) but then it fires when the trigger is released. That's not full auto but I ran thru a 30-rd mag in just a few seconds. 

Perfect for home defense!  You've had a drink or nine on New Years and you hear a commotion downstairs.  You grab your trusty AR and aim down the stairs.  You are about to fire when you realize it's your son - so you elevate and shoot over his head. Phew!  That was close.  Everyone breathes a sigh of relief.

Then you release the trigger.

About the only way you could make it a better weapon is to make it sensitive to shock.  That way if a bad guy swings at it while you are holding it, it goes off.  Winning all around.

[JoeWeber 2,720]

10 hours ago, billvon said:

Perfect for home defense!  You've had a drink or nine on New Years and you hear a commotion downstairs.  You grab your trusty AR and aim down the stairs.  You are about to fire when you realize it's your son - so you elevate and shoot over his head. Phew!  That was close.  Everyone breathes a sigh of relief.

Then you release the trigger.

About the only way you could make it a better weapon is to make it sensitive to shock.  That way if a bad guy swings at it while you are holding it, it goes off.  Winning all around.

You just don't understand how it works out in the real world of home protection. Those who are truly concerned for their safety don't drink or go to sleep in feather beds. Nope. If you are serious, you go to sleep sober, in the prone position, with your AR resting on a sand bag and your wife lying next to you with a night vision spotting scope. There is no way you'd accidentally shoot your kids or concerned neighbors even if they did get past the claymores.

[gowlerk 2,193]

Not a child, but a young man with a promising future.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2924150-utah-rb-ty-jordan-dies-due-to-accidental-gunshot-wound?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

[Phil1111 1,149]

53 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Not a child, but a young man with a promising future.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2924150-utah-rb-ty-jordan-dies-due-to-accidental-gunshot-wound?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

Sure, sure, but as the NRA would say. If only every American was armed, If only one young life could be saved by the defensive use of a gun......never mind.

[billeisele 130]

13 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Sure, sure, but as the NRA would say. If only every American was armed, If only one young life could be saved by the defensive use of a gun......never mind.

Police in Denton, Texas, announced early Saturday morning they had responded to reports of gunshots and that "it is believed the gun was accidentally discharged by the victim" upon conducting a preliminary investigation.

Phil - such ignorance. I'm not an NRA fan but what they would actually say, and have been saying for years is: 

- It's unfortunate that people continue to mishandle guns and shoot themselves. 

- Some are just careless, and others simply don't have the proper training.

- It's no different than anything else that is dangerous, be it a car, bleach, or a kitchen knife, don't mess with it without proper knowledge.

- Don't blame the object, blame the user.

- Two simple rules: Treat every gun as if it's loaded. Don't point a gun at anything that you don't intend to shoot.

 

[JoeWeber 2,720]

4 minutes ago, billeisele said:

Police in Denton, Texas, announced early Saturday morning they had responded to reports of gunshots and that "it is believed the gun was accidentally discharged by the victim" upon conducting a preliminary investigation.

Phil - such ignorance. I'm not an NRA fan but what they would actually say, and have been saying for years is: 

- It's unfortunate that people continue to mishandle guns and shoot themselves. 

- Some are just careless, and others simply don't have the proper training.

- It's no different than anything else that is dangerous, be it a car, bleach, or a kitchen knife, don't mess with it without proper knowledge.

- Don't blame the object, blame the user.

- Two simple rules: Treat every gun as if it's loaded. Don't point a gun at anything that you don't intend to shoot.

 

Kids don't drive drunk, drunks drive kids? I once did underground mining, held an MSHA Instructors Certificate and a License to buy and transport blasting materials. I had all of the training necessary to know that dynamite was safe. It was the blasting caps that were the danger so you never kept them in the same drawer or together under your pillow. Maybe, instead of troubling about loaded guns we should sort out a way to keep the triggers separate.

[wmw999 2,447]

Almost everything is safe as long as you use it right. After all, Bill Booth survived, and he basically started skydiving with a “don’t bounce” class. I started with round parachutes and never hurt myself — but many dz’s would consider a round jump to be a specialty stunt requiring preparation, or they just wouldn’t allow it because the gear it fits in that we used to jump is unsafe. 
Wendy P.