Stupid firearm accident thread

[Phil1111 1,149]

1 hour ago, billeisele said:

Joe - This is SC, there are plenty of guns around. Sheriff Leon Lott has been in office for many years and is a top notch guy. ...

Leon just tells it like it is. "There is crime everywhere and we can't be everywhere. If someone is threatening your life it will be too late when we arrive even if we are there in 5 minutes. If you own a gun, be responsible with it and get training. And don't leave it in your car."

"Reducing gun violence is perhaps chief among them. “Our biggest challenge right now is young people with guns, and the violence we’ve got,” Lott says. “And that’s not just Richland County, it’s nationwide issue. That’s our biggest challenge, that we have a generation that lives and dies by the gun. We’ve got to do something to make a bigger impact on that.”... There is not a Republican in the sheriff’s race, so the winner of the Democratic primary will likely serve in the seat for the next four years....

“The only way we are going to solve the gun violence problem we’ve got in the Midlands is by us working together,” Lott said. “That’s not just [law enforcement], that’s the community. ... What we all hear is that the community is fed up with gun violence. ...

in 2018, South Carolina had the twelfth-highest rate of gun deaths in the United States, with 17.6 deaths per 100,000 people, according to the Centers for Disease Control. These ordinances are part of an effort to lower that number, especially here in the capital city. “We’re here to help spread a message that we gotta put a stop to gun violence,” Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott said

2019 was a deadly year in Columbia. There were 25 murders in the city limits last year, up 67 percent from 2018. Of those 25 killings, 20 of them — 80 percent — were committed with a firearm.'

So in the state with the highest homicide rated in the country. The sheriff is trying to deal with a population that "lives and dies by the gun" and is fed up with gun violence.

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Alright. Seeing as he's a Democrat I'll go along with whatever.

Joe never let a R fib about a D. Always verify. Couldn't find any quotes to get more guns into the community. But found this:

One South Carolina County Shows the Insanity of Giving Military Gear to Cops

"The Richland County, South Carolina Sheriff's Department (that's them above) just obtained an armored personnel carrier, complete with a belt-fed, .50-cal turreted machine gun.  Sheriff Leon Lott has charmingly named the vehicle "The Peacemaker," and insists that using a caliber of ammunition that even the U.S. military is reluctant to use against human targets (it's generally reserved for use against armored vehicles) will "save lives."... "In 2013, the Richland County Sheriff's Department received two, twin-prop C-23 transport planes"

Edited December 31, 2020 by Phil1111

[kallend 2,105]

6 hours ago, billeisele said:

That's a good one. We don't have much serious crime. Too many citizens are armed. And around here people still say please and thank you, and open the door for each other.

You contradict your own position.

[wmw999 2,517]

10 hours ago, billeisele said:

Leon just tells it like it is. "There is crime everywhere and we can't be everywhere. If someone is threatening your life it will be too late when we arrive even if we are there in 5 minutes. If you own a gun, be responsible with it and get training. And don't leave it in your car."

He tells it like he sees it -- there's a big difference. That you see it the same way (for those statements at least) doesn't make it the complete truth.

Wendy P.

[JoeWeber 2,810]

9 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

"Reducing gun violence is perhaps chief among them. “Our biggest challenge right now is young people with guns, and the violence we’ve got,” Lott says. “And that’s not just Richland County, it’s nationwide issue. That’s our biggest challenge, that we have a generation that lives and dies by the gun. We’ve got to do something to make a bigger impact on that.”... There is not a Republican in the sheriff’s race, so the winner of the Democratic primary will likely serve in the seat for the next four years....

“The only way we are going to solve the gun violence problem we’ve got in the Midlands is by us working together,” Lott said. “That’s not just [law enforcement], that’s the community. ... What we all hear is that the community is fed up with gun violence. ...

in 2018, South Carolina had the twelfth-highest rate of gun deaths in the United States, with 17.6 deaths per 100,000 people, according to the Centers for Disease Control. These ordinances are part of an effort to lower that number, especially here in the capital city. “We’re here to help spread a message that we gotta put a stop to gun violence,” Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott said

2019 was a deadly year in Columbia. There were 25 murders in the city limits last year, up 67 percent from 2018. Of those 25 killings, 20 of them — 80 percent — were committed with a firearm.'

So in the state with the highest homicide rated in the country. The sheriff is trying to deal with a population that "lives and dies by the gun" and is fed up with gun violence.

Joe never let a R fib about a D. Always verify. Couldn't find any quotes to get more guns into the community. But found this:

One South Carolina County Shows the Insanity of Giving Military Gear to Cops

"The Richland County, South Carolina Sheriff's Department (that's them above) just obtained an armored personnel carrier, complete with a belt-fed, .50-cal turreted machine gun.  Sheriff Leon Lott has charmingly named the vehicle "The Peacemaker," and insists that using a caliber of ammunition that even the U.S. military is reluctant to use against human targets (it's generally reserved for use against armored vehicles) will "save lives."... "In 2013, the Richland County Sheriff's Department received two, twin-prop C-23 transport planes"

Thanks Phil,

I had hoped there was enough snotty sarcasm in my reply. Sheriff Lott is obviously a goddamn fool. Further, regardless of whether some one thinks that background checks are right or if your guns should be confiscated by your local cops or your second cousins anyone who thinks a Sheriff who wants an armored personnel carrier with a mounted .50 cal to protect the peace is a good guy should reexamine their thinking.

[billeisele 130]

9 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

"Reducing gun violence is perhaps chief among them. “Our biggest challenge right now is young people with guns, and the violence we’ve got,” Lott says. “And that’s not just Richland County, it’s nationwide issue. That’s our biggest challenge, that we have a generation that lives and dies by the gun. We’ve got to do something to make a bigger impact on that.”... There is not a Republican in the sheriff’s race, so the winner of the Democratic primary will likely serve in the seat for the next four years....

“The only way we are going to solve the gun violence problem we’ve got in the Midlands is by us working together,” Lott said. “That’s not just [law enforcement], that’s the community. ... What we all hear is that the community is fed up with gun violence. ...

in 2018, South Carolina had the twelfth-highest rate of gun deaths in the United States, with 17.6 deaths per 100,000 people, according to the Centers for Disease Control. These ordinances are part of an effort to lower that number, especially here in the capital city. “We’re here to help spread a message that we gotta put a stop to gun violence,” Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott said

2019 was a deadly year in Columbia. There were 25 murders in the city limits last year, up 67 percent from 2018. Of those 25 killings, 20 of them — 80 percent — were committed with a firearm.'

So in the state with the highest homicide rated in the country. The sheriff is trying to deal with a population that "lives and dies by the gun" and is fed up with gun violence.

Joe never let a R fib about a D. Always verify. Couldn't find any quotes to get more guns into the community. But found this:

One South Carolina County Shows the Insanity of Giving Military Gear to Cops

"The Richland County, South Carolina Sheriff's Department (that's them above) just obtained an armored personnel carrier, complete with a belt-fed, .50-cal turreted machine gun.  Sheriff Leon Lott has charmingly named the vehicle "The Peacemaker," and insists that using a caliber of ammunition that even the U.S. military is reluctant to use against human targets (it's generally reserved for use against armored vehicles) will "save lives."... "In 2013, the Richland County Sheriff's Department received two, twin-prop C-23 transport planes"

Yep, that's Leon. Pull the TV interviews and you'll see him talking about self defense and about not leaving guns in cars. There is a whole interview on the car break ins. I talk with him a few times a year. He's quite knowledgeable about gangs, the source of the crimes, the judicial system and how these issues are addressed. He's tried all kinds of things to adapt to the constantly changing issues. Folks give him a lot of credit for what he has accomplished. 

The gun violence problem in certain downtown areas is real. Probably similar to just about any other similar area. There is a large area of subsidized housing, and other low income areas. Some of the problem shows up in the busy retail areas where the college kids go but most of it is in the poorer areas.

His department and the City have done a great job in getting the community involved. Many crimes are solved with reports from the public.

Research further and you'll learn about the armored transports, how they were obtained and how they are used. Parades and stuff makes great press.

[billeisele 130]

13 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

He tells it like he sees it -- there's a big difference. That you see it the same way (for those statements at least) doesn't make it the complete truth.

Wendy P.

Wendy - Good morning.

Agree, like he sees it. Since he lives it every day and most others only catch the news and sound bites, I'll rely on his expertise rather than what the media wants us to know. He's quite outspoken and I talk with him frequently during the year. What he says publicly is the same thing he conveys in conversation. The community supports what he's doing. He received 71% of the votes in the last election against two opponents.

[JoeWeber 2,810]

3 minutes ago, billeisele said:

Wendy - Good morning.

Agree, like he sees it. Since he lives it every day and most others only catch the news and sound bites, I'll rely on his expertise rather than what the media wants us to know. He's quite outspoken and I talk with him frequently during the year. What he says publicly is the same thing he conveys in conversation. The community supports what he's doing. He received 71% of the votes in the last election against two opponents.

Then the community is wrong. Your community does not need a damn armored personnel carrier with a .50 cal for defense, show or taking the kids to the pool. It's simply ridiculous and you should say so to Leon the next time you chat.

[Phil1111 1,149]

39 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Then the community is wrong. Your community does not need a damn armored personnel carrier with a .50 cal for defense, show or taking the kids to the pool. It's simply ridiculous and you should say so to Leon the next time you chat.

I imagine Leon as a sheriff in Washington, Oregon or California. Trying to sell the idea of a belt fed .50. Locally the police rely upon pancake breakfasts, fun and runs, etc. I guess when the local population is so disconnected from a community spirit that "a generation that lives and dies by the gun" is evident. Other standards apply.

I understand he got the two Fairchild C-123 AC for free:

Then wheeled and dealt them off for something of tangible value. It does however say something about the community, the society and the ingrained acceptance of everybody being armed.

Why not have the cops bring community leaders to the schools to lecture on the consequences of carrying guns, being stupid and young.

Gun Violence Must Stop. Here's What We Can Do to Prevent More Deaths

Programs and Strategies Addressing Gun Violence

I'd guess that he would welcome such programs if funding was available. The link above is a law enforcement program.

[billvon 3,063]

4 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Then the community is wrong. Your community does not need a damn armored personnel carrier with a .50 cal for defense, show or taking the kids to the pool.

They don't need it.  They want it, the same way a lonely guy wants a supermodel.

[billeisele 130]

4 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Then the community is wrong. Your community does not need a damn armored personnel carrier with a .50 cal for defense, show or taking the kids to the pool. It's simply ridiculous and you should say so to Leon the next time you chat.

I'll tell him but I bet he'll just laugh. "Well tell Joe to come on over and tell us how to do it. No doubt his life/couch experience is more suited to know what to do than my whole career in law enforcement and the advice of the citizens committees." I've heard him give that talk before. 

They use it for parades, it's a novelty. The thing sits at the compound 360+ days a year. Relax, Leon has it under control, at least 71% of the citizens thinks that he does. I used to live in that county and now live in an adjacent, more rural, county. Both of the sheriffs work together and things are good.

[JoeWeber 2,810]

1 hour ago, billeisele said:

I'll tell him but I bet he'll just laugh. "Well tell Joe to come on over and tell us how to do it. No doubt his life/couch experience is more suited to know what to do than my whole career in law enforcement and the advice of the citizens committees." I've heard him give that talk before. 

They use it for parades, it's a novelty. The thing sits at the compound 360+ days a year. Relax, Leon has it under control, at least 71% of the citizens thinks that he does. I used to live in that county and now live in an adjacent, more rural, county. Both of the sheriffs work together and things are good.

That's because he's an arrogant asshole with a badge, tell him I said so. Being a hick Sheriff does not automatically confer sophistication, wisdom or a worldly view. The problem is that it's not a novelty. The problem is that there is too much of it and it all sends the wrong message. 

[billeisele 130]

2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

That's because he's an arrogant asshole with a badge, tell him I said so. Being a hick Sheriff does not automatically confer sophistication, wisdom or a worldly view. The problem is that it's not a novelty. The problem is that there is too much of it and it all sends the wrong message. 

I'll rephrase what Wendy P said.  You tell it like you see it. That you see it that way doesn't make it true.

Columbia SC and Richland County are not country hick areas. No more than Oregon is full of the same idiots running Portland that have allowed a bunch of lawbreakers to take over part of the city. Let's just say that we'll work on our problems so you can focus on yours. None of us have it all figured out.

[JoeWeber 2,810]

20 minutes ago, billeisele said:

I'll rephrase what Wendy P said.  You tell it like you see it. That you see it that way doesn't make it true.

Columbia SC and Richland County are not country hick areas. No more than Oregon is full of the same idiots running Portland that have allowed a bunch of lawbreakers to take over part of the city. Let's just say that we'll work on our problems so you can focus on yours. None of us have it all figured out.

False equivalency. Arguably, idiot local sheriffs who want armored personnel carriers with a mounted .50 machine guns are a part of a national problem, id est the pointless militarization of not only our local police forces but of the very citizenry they are charged to protect. 

[gowlerk 2,246]

Not exactly an accident. "Good guy with a gun" screws up big time. 9 year old girl dies.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/19/us/houston-parents-describe-shooting-of-arlene-alvarez/index.html