Stupid firearm accident thread

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

1 hour ago, normiss said:

Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. -Supreme Court

Absolutely correct.

But to claim that the 'well regulated militia' part means that it only applies to state militias (like the national guard) is as incorrect as claiming that 'shall not be infringed' means that it's an unlimited right.

 

Until the recent MacDonald & Heller decisions, many people (and places) claimed that it was NOT an individual right. That the 'people' in the 2nd A didn't mean the same as the 'people' in the other amendments.

[normiss 800]

24 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Absolutely correct.

But to claim that the 'well regulated militia' part means that it only applies to state militias (like the national guard) is as incorrect as claiming that 'shall not be infringed' means that it's an unlimited right.

 

Until the recent MacDonald & Heller decisions, many people (and places) claimed that it was NOT an individual right. That the 'people' in the 2nd A didn't mean the same as the 'people' in the other amendments.

I never made such a claim.

My understanding of the use of the word militia, was rather inclusive of all citizens at that time.

Pretty sure that's been explained as well.

"The conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home."

 

I thought that was part of the reason of addressing the Heller case - differentiating original intent being citizens across the country or state militias; as well as individual rights and acceptable gun control laws. I think they pretty clearly addressed those issues.

It seems to me most efforts of "original intent" are challenging gray areas of understanding.

[gowlerk 2,191]

Yesterday another 4 YO victim. Hey buddy, can you share some T&P?

https://www.fox19.com/2019/05/12/year-old-toledo-boy-dies-gunshot-wound/

[gowlerk 2,191]

A least this one from Saturday got to live long enough to be a teenager. An un-Happy Mother's Day for some poor family.

 

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/teenager-killed-in-antioch-shooting

[timski 80]

12 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Yesterday another 4 YO victim. Hey buddy, can you share some T&P?

https://www.fox19.com/2019/05/12/year-old-toledo-boy-dies-gunshot-wound/

Fresh out, HOWEVER, I can give you advice on what it means to be a responsible gun owner. Solves pretty much 99% of these problems... 1st Train, train and train some more. You know because operating a "killing device" should not be taken lightly.

2nd, keep the weapons/ammo locked up and out of reach. 

3rd, see number 1.  Any questions? 

I know, I've clearly over simplified this very compounding issue. The larger part being just how many firearms exist. That in and of it self is the problem, and one that simply will NEVER go away.  ~Merica    

[SkyDekker 1,465]

3 hours ago, timski said:

Fresh out, HOWEVER, I can give you advice on what it means to be a responsible gun owner. Solves pretty much 99% of these problems... 1st Train, train and train some more. You know because operating a "killing device" should not be taken lightly.

2nd, keep the weapons/ammo locked up and out of reach. 

3rd, see number 1.  Any questions? 

I know, I've clearly over simplified this very compounding issue. The larger part being just how many firearms exist. That in and of it self is the problem, and one that simply will NEVER go away.  ~Merica    

Also shows that many can clearly not deal with the responsibility that comes with firearms.

The 2nd Amendment is a prime indicator that Libertarians are delusional.

[gowlerk 2,191]

Professional training does not always stop stupidity. More Ts and Ps needed for the family of another 4 YO.

https://www.toledoblade.com/local/police-fire/2019/05/13/autopsy-for-4-year-old-boy-killed-in-west-toledo-shooting-scheduled-monday/stories/20190513119

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

On 5/13/2019 at 10:28 AM, normiss said:

I never made such a claim.

My understanding of the use of the word militia, was rather inclusive of all citizens at that time.

Pretty sure that's been explained as well.

"The conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home."

 

I thought that was part of the reason of addressing the Heller case - differentiating original intent being citizens across the country or state militias; as well as individual rights and acceptable gun control laws. I think they pretty clearly addressed those issues.

It seems to me most efforts of "original intent" are challenging gray areas of understanding.

No you didn't. I should have been more clear on that.

However, you went with the idea of 'well regulated'. Which did not mean 'subject to rules and regulations'. 
Many of the 'not an individual right' arguments combine the 'well regulated' (wanting it to mean 'lots of rules') and the 'militia' (wanting it to mean 'government run organization') to try to establish that the 'people' in the 2nd A doesn't mean individuals. 

 

Neither of those ideas are anything close to what the 'original intent' was. Sometimes, establishing 'original intent' can be very much a grey area. 
However, there's enough supporting writings, to include early drafts of the 2nd A that make it pretty clear that it was intended as an individual right.

 

Not that there aren't a LOT of people unsuited to the responsibility of owning/possessing a firearm. But, there are also a lot of folks incapable of operating a car safely. Or consuming alcohol in a responsible manner.

Local to me, a mom with 3 kids in the car was well over the legal limit and crashed her car. She tried to drive off, telling a witness that 'they're going to take my kids away'. No shit. This was the 2nd time she's been caught driving under the influence with her kids in the car. Maybe she's not responsible enough to have those kids.

https://www.wbay.com/content/news/Green-Bay-mom-booked-for-OWI-after-crashing-SUV-with-kids-inside--509846421.html

[gowlerk 2,191]

Distracted driving is hazardous.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/jacksonville/jso-man-shot-himself-crashed-his-vehicle

[gowlerk 2,191]

This one from yesterday is kind of run of the mill. 16 YO and 14 YO playing with firearm. 14 YO is dead. Hardly worth very many Ts and Ps.

 

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article230373054.html

[turtlespeed 220]

3 hours ago, gowlerk said:

This one from yesterday is kind of run of the mill. 16 YO and 14 YO playing with firearm. 14 YO is dead. Hardly worth very many Ts and Ps.

 

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article230373054.html

Another sad one - 

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Skateboarder-killed-by-dump-truck-on-Seventh-13789306.php?psid=4t4Yj

[gowlerk 2,191]

30 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Another sad one - 

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Skateboarder-killed-by-dump-truck-on-Seventh-13789306.php?psid=4t4Yj

“Pablo will go straight through a red light and not even look at all,” skateboarder and filmmaker Ryan Garshell told GQ. “It’s up to the driver to stop, and if they don’t stop, that’s it. Somehow he always makes it. It’s really magical.”

Now that's Darwin worthy. Like proxy flying.

[gowlerk 2,191]

Another brave 3 yo pays the price of freedom.

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/3-year-old-in-south-kansas-city-dies-from-accidental-gunshot-wound

And a 4 yo as well.

https://katv.com/news/local/man-arrested-after-child-dies-from-self-inflicted-gunshot-wound

Edited May 19, 2019 by gowlerk

[normiss 800]

That will teach her to come home.

https://www.wric.com/news/crime/23-year-old-greenville-woman-shot-and-killed-by-father-who-mistook-her-for-intruder/2012746444

[kallend 2,027]

May 19, 2019

Jose Hernandez, 22, was riding in a car at about 10:45 p.m. in the 3100 block of South Pulaski Road when he accidentally shot himself in the right side of the groin, Chicago police said.

He was taken to Mount Sinai Hospital in critical condition, police said.

Hernandez was pronounced dead at 3:46 p.m. Saturday, the medical examiner’s office said.

[turtlespeed 220]

49 minutes ago, kallend said:

May 19, 2019

Jose Hernandez, 22, was riding in a car at about 10:45 p.m. in the 3100 block of South Pulaski Road when he accidentally shot himself in the right side of the groin, Chicago police said.

He was taken to Mount Sinai Hospital in critical condition, police said.

Hernandez was pronounced dead at 3:46 p.m. Saturday, the medical examiner’s office said.

Darwin award recipient.  

 

[gowlerk 2,191]

This accident has resulted in a charge of negligent manslaughter.

https://www.wtxl.com/news/local-news/one-person-dead-in-shooting-near-west-tharpe-street-tpd-investigating

[gowlerk 2,191]

Gun range safety people. I mean really?????? Killed at the shooting party? Sure is nice to have cool toys to play with.

https://fox28media.com/news/local/spd-1-person-seriously-injured-after-accidental-shooting

[gowlerk 2,191]

Always fun to show your toys to your buddy. Your soon to be dead buddy that is.

https://www.kold.com/2019/05/27/tpd-suspect-custody-after-shooting-tucsons-southeast-side/

[gowlerk 2,191]

Another professional gun toter screws up. At an elementary school.

https://www.presstelegram.com/2019/05/26/security-officer-accidentally-shoots-gun-during-building-search-at-long-beach-elementary-school/

[gowlerk 2,191]

Last but not least for today. An 11 YO is in jail for accidentally killing his 9 YO brother. Only in America.

https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/crime_police/article_17ef2bf8-7fec-11e9-8c3c-5378ea4a731f.html

[turtlespeed 220]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Last but not least for today. An 11 YO is in jail for accidentally killing his 9 YO brother. Only in America.

https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/crime_police/article_17ef2bf8-7fec-11e9-8c3c-5378ea4a731f.html

How can you be honest, and truthful, and say "Only in America"  That is nonsense.

[gowlerk 2,191]

19 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

How can you be honest, and truthful, and say "Only in America"  That is nonsense.

Only in America do 11 year olds go to jail. It is unheard of in Canada and other western countries. A person under 12 can not even be charged with a crime here. They are not considered capable of forming criminal intent. I should have known that it is considered so normal in the US that you would misunderstand my meaning.

Edited May 28, 2019 by gowlerk

[Coreece 190]

50 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Only in America do 11 year olds go to jail.

Yet you want stronger laws.

 

[turtlespeed 220]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Only in America do 11 year olds go to jail. It is unheard of in Canada and other western countries. A person under 12 can not even be charged with a crime here. They are not considered capable of forming criminal intent. I should have known that it is considered so normal in the US that you would misunderstand my meaning.

What was edited?

Also - I guess we hold our kids to a higher standard.

 

If you maim someone, or kill them, you get investigated.