Going from square to elliptical

[johnie 0]

When does a Rational person not so much down size but convert over to elliptical??????? I would like to go elliptical and even up size a little in overall canopy size.Whats your thoughts ? looking for good advise and reasons why, thanks in advance!!!

No matter where you Go!"there you are"!

[Andrewwhyte 1]

You should go to an eliptical not before you have mastered your rectangular/semi-eliptical canopy. This is not possible during your first five hundred jumps.

[mjosparky 4]

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Don't lecture me!I'm indestructable ,till the day i die!

Sometimes what one person thinks is a lecture in in reality the good advice you are looking for.

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I would like to go elliptical

You are a long way from going to an elliptical, not a lecture, just fact.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[skybytch 273]

What do you not like about your current canopy that makes you want to get something different?

What do you think an elliptical canopy will do that your current canopy doesn't do?

When you say "elliptical" which canopies are you referring to (i.e. Stiletto/Crossfire/Katana or Sabre2/Pilot/Safire)?

[johnie 0]

Thats my sig line (the don't lecture me)not part of the post just meant in humour!

No matter where you Go!"there you are"!

[johnie 0]

I have a saber 1 ,I've taken a canopy course!I ts not what i dis like about my canopy!Its that i dont know what an elliptical has to offer and when to switch!I feel completly comfortable under my present canopy. havent had any problems (yet) I'm confident in the post saying 500 jumps .I'm not in a rush,just what to confirm with the majority.It seems i do things out of comfort,I'm comfortable now to do it but that doesn't mean its time now! I wanted reasons just to give it basis for understanding in case i give out advise in the future and can give reasons instead of (Just because).

No matter where you Go!"there you are"!

[tbrown 26]

A lot of new jumpers have semi-ellipticals like the Pilot, Sabre2, Safire, or Spectre ( a 7 cell semi). The Sabre is a somewhat obsolete and aging canopy and you could switch over to a semi with no real problem.

What you really need though is to talk to one of your instructors or coaches. The guy (girl ?) who taught your canopy course whould be a good choice, especially since they've got an idea about how well you're handling your Sabre. They can explain the differences and the advantages to you. And if you really truly have your heart set on an elliptical, they can first of all tell you straight up or down why they think you are or are not ready for one. And they can help you to work on the skills that they think you need to master before trying one.

Tell you what, in "the old days" (yeah, I'm THAT old), we used to have to put over 200 jumps on round canopies before we could even try a square - and your Sabre absolutely blows the doors off any square we had back then. There was a time when the Sabre was the "hot" canopy - for advanced jumpers only. Believe it. And don't be in such a hurry, you're SKYDIVING for heaven's sake. And we're all gonna die someday, but why rush that either ?

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[billvon 2,991]

>I would like to go elliptical . . . .

Why? Hard to give advice unless I know your motivations.

Do you want to go faster? Do you want faster turns? Do you want your landings to be better? Do you want better openings? Do you want to get down faster, or float longer?

Are you OK with spinners? (i.e. turns after opening that may require a chop) Can you bodysteer through opening? Can you flat turn/flare turn your current canopy? Do you have good landings 100% of the time with your current canopy?

[mjosparky 4]

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Thats my sig line (the don't lecture me)not part of the post just meant in humour!

Go into "Edit Profile" and type hr with [ ] around it before your sig. line.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[peek 21]

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The Sabre is a somewhat obsolete and aging canopy....

What's obsolete about it?

"no longer in use or no longer useful" is one definition of obsolete I found.

It would seem that they are quite useful still.

[mattjw916 2]

Drum brakes still work too, but disc brakes work better... same goes for Sabres. There are just better choices out there.

Ellipticals aren't as big of a deal as some people make them out to be IMO. Unfortunately most people hell-bent on jumping them tend to downsize crazy-fast compounding the error in their canopy selection.

Personally after jumping a ton of different canopies, I'm staying with my "mellow" and predicatable Nitron for a while. I'm not really into some of the very twitchy and oversteery ellipticals floating around out there.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[dharma1976 0]

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When does a Rational person not so much down size but convert over to elliptical??????? I would like to go elliptical and even up size a little in overall canopy size.Whats your thoughts ? looking for good advise and reasons why, thanks in advance!!!

Perhaps in not knowing better you were reqally asking if you should go to a semi elliptical cnaopy like a sabre 2 or Safire 2

the sabre2 and safire 2's are both great canopies that will fly very fast if you want to and at the same time can fly in a more docile manner a great canopy to fly at under 500 jumps...

I learned almost everything I know abotu swooping under a Sabre2 170...and then downsized to a sabre2 150 for another 150 jumps before I moved to elliptical...

trust me you will be happy (and so will your bones) that you fly a SEMIEliptical (really tapered, not really elliptical) canopy in this time period as opposed to moving to a heavily tapered canopy...

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[Spdoat 0]

I LOVE my Safre2. It is a great second canopy and I expect to have it for many many hundreds of jumps. Not giving advice because I am in no position to do so but just saying it has been the perfect match for me and I did a lot of research talking with people who know my abilities before making this decision. I know pleanty of guys with thousands jumping them and are perfectly happy because they will do everything they want without dealing with the spin ups/etc. of true ellipticals. Icarus and PD both have demo programs to try them out without buying.

I love my husband!

[peek 21]

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...same goes for Sabres. There are just better choices out there.

For a person with plenty of money to spend perhaps purchasing the latest design is not a problem, but there are people quitting skydiving because they cannot afford it.

It kills me to hear someone refer to an "obsolete" canopy that might make a fine piece of gear for someone who cannot afford something newer.

I'm always thinking about the novice skydiver reading these posts and reading that a canopy they are thinking about buying is considered obsolete.

I know someone who purchased a rig with a Falcon and is satisfied with it (for now). He won't jump it forever but it was something he could afford.

Goodness, I guess if a Sabre is "obsolete" then a Falcon is ?????

[mattjw916 2]

Hey, if you want to jump a PC... go for it!!! Personally, I like the more modern stuff.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[billvon 2,991]

>It kills me to hear someone refer to an "obsolete" canopy that might
> make a fine piece of gear for someone who cannot afford
> something newer.

Hey, if they can afford that Falcon and nothing else, at least it gets them in the air.

But jumping a big Falcon for a long time is going to teach people bad habits. Not a problem if they stick with large F111 canopies, but if they are going to go to more modern gear (as most eventually do) it may come back to bite them.

And jumping a smaller (used) Falcon can be worse. Although it flies more like a modern canopy, when it gets porous it starts stalling hard - and that can cause serious injuries. We had a PD190 that we used as a 'graduate' canopy that started actually hurting people on landing, so we retired it. (It was my first 'real' canopy.)

Of course, if you regularly replace your F111 canopy with a new one, the problem goes away. But for that price you can get a used ZP canopy and get another 1000 jumps out of it.

Using older gear to get in the air can help newer jumpers with cash flow problems get in the air, but there are downsides. Both the good and the bad must be evaluated when making any gear decision.

[packing_jarrett 0]

don't switch over its a trick

Ask yourself if your getting a good amount of performance out of you sabre 170. i.e. trying stuff out of the norm like front riser turns, turning really fast. It seems like your not that current to be jumping an ellip. yet. but if your a person who spends lot of time and is familier with wings and how parachutes fly maybe you might try a sabre 150 if its approved by the DZO/manager. It wouldn't put you at too high of a wingloading.

Na' Cho' Cheese

[peek 21]

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>And jumping a smaller (used) [non zero-porosity fabric] canopy can be worse. Although it flies more like a modern canopy, when it gets porous it starts stalling hard - and that can cause serious injuries.

(All your comments acknowleged, but I wasn't considering small ones.)

Well I guess we need to ask ourselves what is wrong with training (or skydivers) today. Like why I can jump my friend's Fury with 1000 jumps on it for CRW and we can't train someone new to when they weigh 160.

I guess most skydivers are at severe risk even having a reserve ride.

[NewGuy2005 53]

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>We had a PD190 that we used as a 'graduate' canopy that started actually hurting people on landing, so we retired it. (It was my first 'real' canopy.)

Of course, if you regularly replace your F111 canopy with a new one, the problem goes away. But for that price you can get a used ZP canopy and get another 1000 jumps out of it.

.

Bill,

I have a PD 9 cell 230. I weigh 195. The canopy has about 80 jumps on it. How many do you think it has left?

Thanks

[AFFI 0]

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>We had a PD190 that we used as a 'graduate' canopy that started actually hurting people on landing, so we retired it. (It was my first 'real' canopy.)

Of course, if you regularly replace your F111 canopy with a new one, the problem goes away. But for that price you can get a used ZP canopy and get another 1000 jumps out of it.

.

Bill,

I have a PD 9 cell 230. I weigh 195. The canopy has about 80 jumps on it. How many do you think it has left?

Thanks

ZP?
Take care of it, reline it on a regular basis - it will last a LONG time...

[billvon 2,991]

>I have a PD 9 cell 230. I weigh 195. The canopy has about 80 jumps on
>it. How many do you think it has left?

At close to 1:1 I wouldn't try to put more than about 300-400 jumps on it. A friend of mine had a PD170 loaded at just over 1:1 and started getting really nasty landings at about 500 jumps. A lot depends on loading; the lighter loading, the less the problem. Also, a lot depends on canopy care. Canopies landed on grass and packed on painted concrete will last a lot longer than an Eloy canopy.

[NewGuy2005 53]

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ZP?
Take care of it, reline it on a regular basis - it will last a LONG time...

Afraid not. It's F-111.

[peek 21]

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Canopies landed on grass and packed on painted concrete will last a lot longer than an Eloy canopy.

You know what Bill? That made me realize that your thoughts on canopies, and in particular, non zero-porosity canopies, might be quite a bit different from mine because of where we most often jump.

I have to say that I assume beautiful grassy landing areas and no sand when I think of canopy care and life.

For example, I was surprised some years ago when someone told me that Tandem canopies at Eloy were breaking lines at 300-400 jumps, but when you think of it this makes sense.

Now a good question would be how much additional porosity is created by sandy conditions.