Smallest chest mount reserve?

[meat.missile 25]

Any of you folks know what the smallest TSO'd chest mount reserve is?

[mark 107]

I'm going to guess it's Jeana Yeager's 22' Phantom in a custom Butler container, used in the 1986 Voyager around-the-world nonstop unrefueled flight.

[RiggerLee 61]

Is the guy that bought Jerry's TSO still building chest mounts? He had TSO's in all four categories. New guy is trying to make a real push to break into the pilot market. You might be able to get a custom rig from him. 

 

Lee

[JerryBaumchen 1,354]

22 minutes ago, RiggerLee said:

He had TSO's in all four categories.

Hi Lee,

TSO-authorizations/TSO standards make no mention of 'categories.'  They also do not make any mention of 'types' of parachutes, components, etc.

Jerry Baumchen

[pchapman 279]

Then Jerry, maybe enlighten us? Presumably Lee was talking about chest / lap / back / seat. What are those so-called "categories" officially categorized as?  I don't think Lee was trying to use official terminology. Edit: Or are you saying a change in harness is a Minor change no matter what the TSO? Or that your TSO was broad enough to allow any harness type?    Can you elaborate a little on what you know, rather than just saying "the other guy is wrong"?

And since it has been a year or so, if it is public now, who did buy the TSO & related stuff from you?

Thanks.

Edited August 7, 2019 by pchapman

[JerryBaumchen 1,354]

1 hour ago, pchapman said:

Then Jerry, maybe enlighten us? 

Hi Peter,

I will give you my opinion.  The final determination is & must be with the FAA.

No certificated parachute component has any declaration as to chest/seat/back/lap.

Do you see any such declaration on a PD reserve?  How about your reserve ripcord?

Re:  'What are those so-called "categories" officially categorized as?'

IMO they are not categorized.  It does seem to me that this is a conflict within the FAA.  They say that riggers have to be type rated yet the components are not marked as such.

Now, a reasonable person can readily determine a back parachute from a chest parachute.  However, the actual components are not marked as such.

And, 'back in the day' some local FAA-types were requiring riggers to log their repacks of CrossBow rigs as chest packs.  That is NUTZ IMO as the container was obviously on the person's back.  IMO & experience, most FAA-types know little about parachutes, parachute regulations, and really prefer to stay that way.  End of that rant.

Re:  'Or are you saying a change in harness is a Minor change no matter what the TSO?'

No.  However, IMO the FAA is lacking in a substantive determination of just what constitutes a Minor Change vs a Major Change.  John Sherman once told me only the actual designer can make such a determination.  And, as I was told by someone in the upper mgt of RWS that when they developed the Vector container, they tested it & submitted as a Major Change.  The Atlanta ACO looked at their paperwork and said that they considered it a Minor Change.  This was because they were using the same materials, the same production methods, and the same Quality Program.  Today, a Vector III says on the TSO label 'Wonderhog.'

As I have posted before, Derek Thomas purchased AeroSports USA.  Jarret Martin purchased Summit Parachute Systems.

Does that answer your questions?

Jerry  Baumchen

PS)  George Galloway of Precision once told me that when the paperwork weighs as much as the component, the FAA will consider it a Minor Change.

Edited August 7, 2019 by JerryBaumchen

[meat.missile 25]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

As I have posted before, Derek Thomas purchased AeroSports USA.  Jarret Martin purchased Summit Parachute Systems

Which one do I talk to about getting a tiny round chest mount? 

[JerryBaumchen 1,354]

13 minutes ago, meat.missile said:

Which one do I talk to about getting a tiny round chest mount? 

Hi MM,

I cannot & will not make a recommendation.  I do not own either business.

You might consider trying both of them; just a thought.

Jerry Baumchen

Edited August 7, 2019 by JerryBaumchen

[pchapman 279]

3 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

As I have posted before, Derek Thomas purchased AeroSports USA.  Jarret Martin purchased Summit Parachute Systems.

New to me, thanks Jerry. 

Your answers are useful and in line with what I expected. Just thought you were a little harsh on Lee's brief remark.

Summit apparently is   https://www.facebook.com/summitparachutesystems/

And Derek would be the Sunpath guy but it sounds like he hasn't been the owner there for some years, as he now heads up CPS.

Just for those of us who aren't keeping up with everything in the industry....

[councilman24 37]

On 8/7/2019 at 8:40 PM, pchapman said:

New to me, thanks Jerry. 

Your answers are useful and in line with what I expected. Just thought you were a little harsh on Lee's brief remark.

Summit apparently is   https://www.facebook.com/summitparachutesystems/

And Derek would be the Sunpath guy but it sounds like he hasn't been the owner there for some years, as he now heads up CPS.

Just for those of us who aren't keeping up with everything in the industry....

Derek runs Elite Parachute Rigging Academy with Mark Kruse.

[councilman24 37]

As Mark said Butler's custom.for the around the world flight is likely smallest new one. The was a one pin miniature belly wart that only a tri con fit in. Stylemaster, Mini system variation, don't remember. Have one down stairs.  Ot much bigger than a football. I have a one pin chest made by Aerosport USA when owned by Jerry about the size of a large phone book that fits Strong lopo, Preserve 1 and such. A pop top isn't much bigger. New ones available from Sonic as BaseR or The Ranch Pro Shop. Have two original pop tops.

New and known to be available, PopTop from Sonic.

[sundevil777 102]

Related to the question is which canopy was the smallest. Please let us not consider canopies used for hang gliders and such.

I would expect the KXX to be in the running, correct? For the custom design used for the around the world flight, couldn’t they have done better than a Phantom? 

Edit: it was said that only a tricon would fit, do we all agree that it is the smallest?

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by sundevil777

[RiggerLee 61]

I think an aerostar/phantom would be the smallest. I remember once I was putting some old rigs together for a jump. I missed the opportunity to buy a chest mount. I don't recall what it was called. It was from the cone era but it used through loops. Loops of ungutted type 3 from the bottom to the top, canopy stacked on it's side, loops came through. Two pins. Can not for the life of me remember what it was called or who built it. I was told that it was the smallest at the time which was probable the case. Any clue what that was?

 

Lee

[pms07 3]

Seems like the K20 and Phantom 22 were about the smallest packing reserves back in the late 70s/early80s.  Both packed as small or smaller than 23 tricon from what I recall.  The Piglet reserve was also very small packing but I had no experience with it.  I've got at least 3 rides on a Phantom 24 at field elevation over 6000'MSL.  I was lighter and lots younger in those days and thought the landings were okay.  Anyone putting something similar in a pilot emergency rig ought to think about the landings, possibly in rough terrain with little or no time to prep, before strapping one on.   Small pack volume isn't everything, especially for someone with little or no experience under such a canopy.  I get that its an emergency/last hope piece of equipment but when I've flown with an emergency rig, one of my criteria was to being more likely than not to walk away from the landing using it under less than ideal conditions... 

[meat.missile 25]

For my purposes it is there so the pilot doesn't get in trouble.

[Mountainsky1 0]

16' British Protector is the smallest chest mount reserve..